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Why are GP 14's so fast?

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Nov 06 at 7:48pm

Originally posted by Jamie

Crews of these new fangled boats make it look like they are tying to stand up on top of a beach ball when they are not on the wire.

That's a very good way of putting the effect of sailing a boat with a high floor. I've always likened it to standing on the lid of a tea chest (removing the lid and standing down on the base being the analogy for a boat without a double floor, like a 505), but yeah, beach ball, I like it...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 06 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by NeilP

I'd say the comfort factor was pretty much the same, it's not that comfy curled up under the vang of an FD. There's far too many fittings in there! Of course, my helm was more comfy than a comfy thing, but that's a price you pay for sailing a boat that rewards so massively upwind in a blow!!

Neil

Neil, I'd say it's more comfy curled up down to leeward in a FD than any boat I would care to name, at least you can lay down in the leeward hole and be generally out of the eay without being in the way of everything. Crews of these new fangled boats make it look like they are tying to stand up on top of a beach ball when they are not on the wire.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 06 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

If you look at the wave pattern along the hulls when travelling up to hull speed, for the older designs the wave shape peak and trough almost exactly matches the curvature of the hull, and the water flows off the transom cleanly.
More modern flatter boats sink down in the central trough, and also tend to drag the transom.
This means that the old boats tend to get to hull speed early, but find more of a hump to get planing, whilst the flatter boats have more drag at the lower speeds, but plane more easily, and plane faster.


nice one, a decent, plausible explanation....certainly true with Solos versus say Laser or Streaker (even though the latter is also a Holt design)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 06 at 8:09pm
If you look at the wave pattern along the hulls when travelling up to hull speed, for the older designs the wave shape peak and trough almost exactly matches the curvature of the hull, and the water flows off the transom cleanly.
More modern flatter boats sink down in the central trough, and also tend to drag the transom.
This means that the old boats tend to get to hull speed early, but find more of a hump to get planing, whilst the flatter boats have more drag at the lower speeds, but plane more easily, and plane faster.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 06 at 11:37am

The point I was trying to make was not how slow/fast relative to its handicap the boat is in light airs, but how much difference the way it's sailed makes. It's taken us several years to make the FD go in light airs, it's really very much easier in a good F3. If you get beat by a particular boat in light airs, might it not be that they are sailing better than you? The current obsession with the "adrenaline junkie" end of the wind range means that lots of sailors don't bother with the light stuff at all. No wonder they get their butts kicked when they do! I still think any trapeze assymetric "should" have the legs of the FD on a windward/leeward in the light - due to the FD being slightly underpowered downwind, as well as the weight and wetted area issues. Light airs are just as much of a challenge as 30 knots, it's just a different kind of challenge. The people who are really good at it (not me, barely adequate would best describe me) can make almost any boat a light air bandit.

Neil

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 06 at 8:34pm

Surely Canoes are,like the FD, also at their least competitive on h'cap (in my experience sailing against Messrs Allen and Goodchild) in light airs? Lots of wetted area thanks to the length... At least that's the ony time I could beat them on PY in my old Fireball. Once the wind picked up some, they were gone.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 06 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

doesn't become significant until you approach hull speed


More to it than that... It also affects the fineness of the entry, all sorts of things. Length isn't everything, just, say, 90%...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 06 at 6:23pm

Waterline length only reduces wave drag (it actually contributes to the skin friction component - more wetted area), and that doesn't become significant until you approach hull speed - something you rarely do in light airs.

 

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 06 at 5:52pm
Dunno, I'd expect the FD to wallop the 29er in the light stuff. Length, length, length. It also has the advantage that, being a much less wedge shaped hull, the board doesn't end up at an odd angle to the oncoming water sailing it heeled...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 06 at 4:26pm

I'd say the comfort factor was pretty much the same, it's not that comfy curled up under the vang of an FD. There's far too many fittings in there! Of course, my helm was more comfy than a comfy thing, but that's a price you pay for sailing a boat that rewards so massively upwind in a blow!!

Neil

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