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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 4:43pm
Fair enough, Rich. I can be a touchy so and so at times........ doubled up 12mm bungee pulled tight with enough stretch left to allow the blade to come up if grounded is more than enough to hold down the rudder of all of the boats I've ever  owned (or would want to own) with no movement whatsoever, even on a 3 sail planing reach. Mind you, I don't aspire to anything more than doing reasonably well in club races. If I was an olympian things may be different.





Originally posted by H2

Personally I would stick to either a cassette or a rotating rudder and would be very unlikely to have a fixed one as its too much faff worrying about hitting something or coming in out of control to the beach. I think years back there was a fad around fixed which is why so many boats now have them but I think the majority have worked out that the very marginal additions of less weight / more stiffness have been offset by modern kit which is so much better and still easy to use!


 Yes, I think you're right.

Waving flags at an open in a week or so. The class in question makes use of fixed rudders. I'll see how they get on.
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sussex Lad


Originally posted by rich96


Any form of bungee to hold down a rudder is useless(unless its a pottering boat)

You need either sacrificial pin or rope and cleat

Wrong.....Been using it when required for 10 yrs and have had absolutely no issue with it. As for my boat being a pottering boat......well that depends on perspective....... and I struggled to stay polite with my response.


Perhaps I wasn't clear - apologies

We used to use bungee on training/instructing boats and they worked for that adequately

However, if you are after a racing set up (minimal movement/max stiffness etc) a bungee (shock cord) is not the way to go.





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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by rich96



Any form of bungee to hold down a rudder is useless(unless its a pottering boat)

You need either sacrificial pin or rope and cleat


Wrong.....

Been using it when required for 10 yrs and have had absolutely no issue with it. As for my boat being a pottering boat......well that depends on perspective....... and I struggled to stay polite with my response.
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H2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 2:48pm
Personally I would stick to either a cassette or a rotating rudder and would be very unlikely to have a fixed one as its too much faff worrying about hitting something or coming in out of control to the beach. I think years back there was a fad around fixed which is why so many boats now have them but I think the majority have worked out that the very marginal additions of less weight / more stiffness have been offset by modern kit which is so much better and still easy to use!
H2 #115 (sold)
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad



Helpful posts all.Yes the load on the pivoting rudder is a pain when it's up but incorporating some rudderless technique as well helps. Heel is not helpful.
....on my existing boats with pivot I have a doubled up piece of  10 or 12 mm bungee in the downhaul rope. Holds it down firmly but does come up if I hit anything.What holds the blade up on the cassette type? Would not be good if it slips down at crucial moment.



Any form of bungee to hold down a rudder is useless(unless its a pottering boat)

You need either sacrificial pin or rope and cleat
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 2:29pm
.....makes perfect sense.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:59pm
If a pivoting rudder comes up a bit on a seriously quick boat if you are lucky you will only rip the rudder fittings out of the boat. If you are unlucky it could be much worse. That's why dagger rudders.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:45pm
Friction for the most part. Once you get to the taper you can tilt it in the stock which locks it in place as the trailing edge is forced back in to the V of the case.  
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 1:13pm
Helpful posts all.

Yes the load on the pivoting rudder is a pain when it's up but incorporating some rudderless technique as well helps. Heel is not helpful.


....on my existing boats with pivot I have a doubled up piece of  10 or 12 mm bungee in the downhaul rope. Holds it down firmly but does come up if I hit anything.

What holds the blade up on the cassette type? Would not be good if it slips down at crucial moment.


Edited by Sussex Lad - 14 Aug 19 at 1:19pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 19 at 12:48pm
I have a cassette rudder on the D-Zero, I love it. When the dreaded weed comes up the boat will happily sail on half rudder without any additional load that you get when you pivot a swinging rudder backwards.

Running aground could be an issue but not worse than with a fixed blade.

If I sailed at a sea club or there was a real risk of grounding (tidal estuary etc..) then i would want a pivoting rudder with a breakaway cleat.
Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74
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