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Is this illegal or unsporting?

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is this illegal or unsporting?
    Posted: 07 Apr 15 at 12:28pm
Can't see a problem in this case - you are playing the same game, using the same rules, in boats that aren't too different - not like a 70 footer v's a Sonata or something. Should you have carried on and sailed them off the course? I guess that would depend upon what the fleet had been doing up to that time - if the racing was pretty cut throat, then yes, why not? If the rules were just being used to know who had RoW for the rest of the series, then maybe a little out of place.

The Saljuice thing was a whole different ball game from what I remember.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 15 at 11:21pm
The case I think Jeffers maybe referring to was in sail juice series. I believe faster boat on first start hung around to sit on slower boat in second start. The defence was that since results were for same overall series was ok. Caused a bit of bad feeling at the time.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 15 at 1:06am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

IIRC, there was a long thread a while ago on SA about a similar situation from the US. But in that situation, again IIRC, there was a big difference in speeds between the fast and slow boats - i.e. there was no realistic way for the slow boat to break the cover, and the faster boat covered from the gun. 

The faster boat was also in a different start to the slower boat and they hung around part way up the beat to pin the slower boat down too which was what caused more of the furore I believe.

SA Thread here

Includes Case 78 quoted in full, and discussion about boats of significantly different size in an IRC race, but NOT two different races.

Attacking a boat in a different race would break rule 24 Interfering with another boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 15 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

IIRC, there was a long thread a while ago on SA about a similar situation from the US. But in that situation, again IIRC, there was a big difference in speeds between the fast and slow boats - i.e. there was no realistic way for the slow boat to break the cover, and the faster boat covered from the gun. 

The faster boat was also in a different start to the slower boat and they hung around part way up the beat to pin the slower boat down too which was what caused more of the furore I believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Quagers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 11:29pm
I think for me that's where it crosses into unsporting. If it's in one design, or closely matched handicap boats then fair enough, the better match racer will win, it's still sailing skill. However if one boat is significantly fast enough that every time the slower boat breaks free they can just regain the lead I think it's a douche move.

Unfortunately the rules can't make judgement calls like that and it's all fair game, but I think the first situation wouldn't lose you too many friends wheras the second has the chance to make you a bit of a outcast at the fleet party.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 11:06am
IIRC, there was a long thread a while ago on SA about a similar situation from the US. But in that situation, again IIRC, there was a big difference in speeds between the fast and slow boats - i.e. there was no realistic way for the slow boat to break the cover, and the faster boat covered from the gun. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveB00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 3:27am
Thanks. I stand exonerated.

Steve  = : ^ )
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 3:10am
Case 78. Improving your series standing is a sporting reason.

Case 15. Windward/astern boat pinning out at a mark

Sorry a bit short and untidy:  on the mobile.


Edited by Brass - 01 Apr 15 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveB00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 2:41am
Thanks for the reply. Personally, I'd be prepared to cop it, and prepared to gybe away pretty early in the piece. I don't blame someone for looking at the big picture, though the fact that I wasn't prepared to push it further this time was because I expected the other boat would be angry.

I might add that the final race was sailed in light conditions, we beat the bigger boat by three places and won the series by half a point, making the second year in a row we've won by half a point(!) The skipper of the other boat came over and congratulated us – but he slipped in a mention of this incident. ;-)

Thanks again,
Steve  = : ^ )


Edited by SteveB00 - 01 Apr 15 at 11:56am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 15 at 2:27am
I'm pretty sure ISAF released a Q&A a couple of years ago which specifically said a faster boat match racing a slower boat to the back wasn't in breach of the rules if no other rules were broken. However opinion was sharply divided amongst posters at the time over whether it could be considered sporting.

A lot will depend on your local fleet's culture I expect.

Edited by JimC - 01 Apr 15 at 2:30am
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