GRP Boat-to buy or not to buy

Still think a good GP is a better family cruiser/racer

   Re my previous post for a family dinghy your advice was great and I am sure that I now need to buy a Miracle or similar boat.
In this regard I have viewed a GRP Pacer on Ebay
Fortunately she is relatively local so I had the opportunity.
In terms of size , weight etc I believe she is perfect for us. Not too big fo when I am with one of my kids but as we are a small family I hve no doubt we can all squeeze aboard for some fun.
The boat has a trailer which is a real bonus as whilst I will likely join an inland club I would love to do some open water sailing also.Trolley is there albeit with a broken wheel which I am toold are cheap to buy.
The mast and sails look decent but the ropes need renewing.
Turing to the hull all the fixings seem to be there and seem solid.
Problem is thereafter I don't know what to expect.
She still has the original gel coat which I believe is a positive. It looks like a good coat of paint would  do her the world of good as finish badly faded but I understand painting GRP is not a good idea.
She has one repair on the front underside probably where she was dropped on a trolley but it looks sound.
The top edge is a little crazed but i believe that to be quite normal and she has the odd small chip around the edges.
Basically she looks 25 years old but I think she is generally sound.
I understand however that GRP boats are harder to do up than wood but equally maybe nothing is needed if I am not worried about beauty awards.
I have no idea how everything fits together but the seller assured me it does.
No cover which is an issue as I understand they are not cheap to make-any ideas.  

She would be the perfect boat if she was more expensive and it better nick but equally for not a lot she may still fit the bill.
So am I being too keen and is there something better out there. She is bids only so no guarantees I would get her but I suspect she will go for near starting bid at £365.
I have 2 days to decide and once again could do with your advice.

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Martin63n7 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 09 Mar 11 Location: Kent Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Martin63n7 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: GRP Boat-to buy or not to buy Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 8:46am
	Re my previous post for a family dinghy your advice was great and I am sure that I now need to buy a Miracle or similar boat. In this regard I have viewed a GRP Pacer on Ebay Fortunately she is relatively local so I had the opportunity. In terms of size , weight etc I believe she is perfect for us. Not too big fo when I am with one of my kids but as we are a small family I hve no doubt we can all squeeze aboard for some fun. The boat has a trailer which is a real bonus as whilst I will likely join an inland club I would love to do some open water sailing also.Trolley is there albeit with a broken wheel which I am toold are cheap to buy. The mast and sails look decent but the ropes need renewing. Turing to the hull all the fixings seem to be there and seem solid. Problem is thereafter I don't know what to expect. She still has the original gel coat which I believe is a positive. It looks like a good coat of paint would do her the world of good as finish badly faded but I understand painting GRP is not a good idea. She has one repair on the front underside probably where she was dropped on a trolley but it looks sound. The top edge is a little crazed but i believe that to be quite normal and she has the odd small chip around the edges. Basically she looks 25 years old but I think she is generally sound. I understand however that GRP boats are harder to do up than wood but equally maybe nothing is needed if I am not worried about beauty awards. I have no idea how everything fits together but the seller assured me it does. No cover which is an issue as I understand they are not cheap to make-any ideas. She would be the perfect boat if she was more expensive and it better nick but equally for not a lot she may still fit the bill. So am I being too keen and is there something better out there. She is bids only so no guarantees I would get her but I suspect she will go for near starting bid at £365. I have 2 days to decide and once again could do with your advice.

winging it Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958	Post Options Post Reply Quote winging it Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 8:57am
	GRP is MUCH easier to care for than wood. Damage to wood can mean scarfing and fairing in whole new panels, which then have to be primed and painted. A lengthy process requiring some element of woodworking skill. You can paint GRP, but it will never look as nice as painted wood. The secret to success lies in the preparation - as with everything! Holes in grp can be fixed relatively easiliy, depending on how big/deep they are. Scrtatches require only gelcoat, though with an older boat you won't get a good match. Bigger holes can require filling and patching with fibreglass tape. There are some pacers still around, and an active fleet down under : http://www.pacersailing.org.au/ Since the Pacer in this country now qualifies as a 'lost class' ie no active class association, I would take your whole post and repost it here: http://www.cvrda.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3360 where there is currently ongoing chat about the boat, plus a mass of more expertise on boat renovation than I can offer.
	the same, but different...

alstorer Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote alstorer Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 9:00am
	Have you actually seen the boat in person?
	-_ Al

Pierre Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1532	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pierre Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 9:43am
	Nessa's advice is very sound. GRP is fine to repair. No big problem at all really. And, I am betting that a good scrub, along with judicious use of t-cut and a polish, will make the boat look just fine. You might be surprised what a bit of elbow grease can achieve. Good luck.

CaptainSlow Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Jul 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 75	Post Options Post Reply Quote CaptainSlow Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 10:08am
	Looking at the Photo on Ebay I would check to see if it has a boom, the picture sailing does not show one! Fairly important part of the boat CS

Martin63n7 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 09 Mar 11 Location: Kent Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Martin63n7 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 11:22am
	I have seen boat first hand so my comments are based on inspection. There is definitely a boom but owner was having a mess and did not fit it in photo.

GBt(former WBlvvr) Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 Mar 11 Location: Nr Ipswich Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote GBt(former WBlvvr) Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 12:46pm
	High, the main thing to look for is Osmosis in GRP boats. Like rust it attacks plastic as rust does metal. For example, I sailed a GRP Enterprise one afternoon, and it was nice and responsive, so seemingly nothing amiss.. I offered to crew that evening in her,but it wasnt Ent friendly weather, so 2 /one woodie one fibreglass ones went over, in a short space of time. 'Our one' had near zero buoyancy, so we had a ride back to shore and a half submerged boat towed back thanks, to the safety boat/crew. The owner spent a week rubbing down all the surface gunk covering the oesmosis pin holes and filled it. Like rust it can be made invisible which is why plastic lead mine buyers, are advised to get a proper yacht survey done. He had a shoulder complaint-probably due to all the capsizing, sold it and has now relinquished the Webmaster job to yours truly, for what its worth. Not such a departure from the Pacers thread really, because the wooden one I had reminded me of a cross between an Enterprise but with much less sail area and Mirror like(cockpit),also I may do an article on them for our club mag. As quite a lot of boats do find me, usually when I'm not after one, it was when an elderly couple who used to sail at our club eoins and light years ago, rocked up and asked if anyone was interested in the boat they had tucked away in a dry barn, that various fingers pointed in my direction(but not for the usual abusive reasons or effects)The commitee were running a book on what boat would be arriving next. Went to look, quite liked what I saw, (the orange hull being debatable), but it grew on me. They were well known fruit drink producers and that was their logo colour, so it stayed as per. Anyway, all the rigging and foils etc were sound, and price agreed, went back, got my trailer and dosh, handed over, picked her up. First impressions nice 2 chime shape, pointy bow(not a luvvr of snub nosed craft)rear very beamy, which was deamed its one failing for racing, or so an expert informed me on his factual fault finding mission..one unclosetted from his armchaired enthusiasms in the club lounge. Well actually he now owns a sail company so probably knew his onions. Very roomy for a lardy large like me and quite forgiving of my weight as I hope the 'new Phantom will be once I get the foot print hole in the first wood skin fixed..That too I should check very carefully, but I doubt plastic pacers are double skinned because the buoyancy tanks double as seats-could be wrong never actually seen a GRP one!.Only went over once and the mast came down as I was relying on the probably oringinal leather ties for the stays-no damage just a bit uncool, as a great nephew present put it. That said apart from a narrow ridge, theres not much to perch your bum on hiking out, as again very Mirror like . Sails are something ~~pole?yetheline~~-poleythene?, in other word plastic so ultra hard wearing. The mast should be in 2 halves with the main and jib halleyards running inside, so you have to carry the two bits together. However no mast support on a trailer is required. If its the correct boom the kicker should slot into a cup holder type, to hold it in place on the flat planed underside. They are oblong in end elevation.Mosr have a brace to hold the mast in position my early Puffin didnt so you could move it back and forth. Kites are optional. Jack Holt designed them for Puffin Paints in 1970, but people usually went the Enterprise route. I sold mine as too many boats, needed revarnishing due to not having a proper cover outside, again where a plastic boat wins out, to a guy from Tolshant Darcy wanting it to give his son for his 14th birthday. Usually my boating is self financing but I just got my dosh back and he got a great bargain, as usually people tell me. They were kind enough to send a nice letter saying all about their first year with her, including being sideswiped by an oppie, in the round Mersea Island Race. As a result she was revarnished and repainted, the same original orange, but the lad wanted to go up classes for racing and I saw her sell on EBay, for rather more, good luck as she looked very smart and the price no doubt was representative of all the hard work.. Hope this isnt too long winded and of some assistance in your quest-go for it . Edited by GBt(former WBlvvr) - 14 Mar 11 at 1:06pm

kfz Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 02 Nov 10 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 96	Post Options Post Reply Quote kfz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 2:24pm
	Id disagree with Nessa on GRP being easier to look after. its horrid stuff, though to be honest Im probably fairly comptent compared to most modern men. know nothing about the pacer but that looks like a few hundred quids worth of anyones money. Trailer looks sweet. Her hull looks fairly sea worthy and quick too. Is the boom missing? Does she have any reefing? Essential if you sailing with kids. If she doesnt your looking at making a claw for roller reefing. Your going to struggle a bit for class specific spares, but what the hell, go for it, dont like it sell it for what you paid. Still think a good GP is a better family cruiser/racer right designer though...... Kev Edited by kfz - 14 Mar 11 at 2:31pm
	GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club Liverpool SC

GBt(former WBlvvr) Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 Mar 11 Location: Nr Ipswich Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote GBt(former WBlvvr) Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 2:50pm
	Kev, I used to sail GPs at Nav College Grimsby in the docks as well as out on the Humber Jack Holts designs are often well related-I only ever sailed an Enterprise the once but they were a bit of Mr Holt outdoing himself, so I would say the Pacer is a smaller version in some ways that like a GP a very good all round General Purpose Dinghy' with some of the Mirrors practicality. I'm not sure if a roller reefing system is necessary. The jib isnt really big enough and the boom can be done with the old 2 strap system and rolling the boom before attatching to the goseneck but then there is an issue with the kicker. I dont think the sail area is big enough to cause concern to any competent sailor. Couldnt resist the add- on like a sliding seat /Minisprint, Toy, Moth ( sic 1st pic) to avoid that uncomfortable Pacer sides,and fill a gap.

kfz Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 02 Nov 10 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 96	Post Options Post Reply Quote kfz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 11 at 3:02pm
	QUOTE=GBt(former WBlvvr)] before attatching to the goseneck but then there is an issue with the kicker. [/QUOTE] Hence the claw. Thats if the is a boom to roll it round! She does look liker a sweet boat, Id be tempted. Kev
	GP14 Fleet Captain Liverpool Sailing Club Liverpool SC