laser 4000?

I thought it'd be easier starting a new thread for this one. Anyway how does the 4000 compare to similar boats of its type, like stability, speed, depowering etc. I like the 4000 because of the racks and light sailers can sail it. One thing at the moment i dont like is that it looks like it can capsize easily, can it or is it stable? Is it much faster than the 29er? Thanks again!

We tried and dropped the 4k when it first came out for several reasons.

First off, it felt very top-heavy when sailing, not to say heavy when hauling out.

Then the kite refused to go back in the chute no matter how hard my crew pulled on the downhaul, while all the time we were rolling downwind in our top-heavy boat. OK, technique might overcome this, but there are chutes that work better.

Next the boat turtled so instantly in a totally mild capsize we were simply astonished. Again, the top heaviness doesn't help here, I guess.

Sheet loads are high on the main with the compulsory centre-bridle system. I know a few sailors who use 5:1 on the sheet, but then response is slowed.

Finally, if the crew is light and the racks are fully extended, it's an awful long way to fall when the inevitable capsize happens. Some who feel indestructible don't mind this; my crew felt very destructible!

What I've never understood is how it needs so much righting moment when the designer himself told me that the white sail area is smaller than an RS400 (even if the kite is bigger)

The 29er is a lot lighter, nippier feeling, twitchy, dynamic, all that sort of thing. I think its got anicer, moe dynamic rig too. To *me* a boat with that sort of feel feels faster, even if it isn't. In practice I'd *guess* that the 29er will have the legs in top speed offwind, but the 4000 will be easier to get upwind though waves. The feel of both is so different you really ought to sail both and decide which style of boat is good for you. I don't regularly sail either, although there are both at my club, but FWIW I think the 29er is the best new one design of the last thirty years. On the other hand that's irrelevant if you don't like the style of boat...

Edited by JimC

You pretty much have everything covered by your two threads now so I’d say it was over to you.

 

For what its worth me… well my crew and I are about the same weight as you and I’ve recently got a 29er that I love, very fast and responsive and rewards good sailing in a very immediate kind of way. But its very tippy and nervous and if your on a small shift piece of water and new to asymmetric it would be a pretty steep learning curve.

 

Buzz is a great first asymmetric and I’m pleased to see that it seems to be reasonable well represented on your threads. However they seem heavy and unresponsive when you get used to them, but on a small piece of water its stability and ease of use would give you much more fun than a 4000… which I haven’t sailed so perhaps shouldn’t comment on… other than to say that it doesn’t appeal. Those racks you like almost drowned my crew with her previous helm (stuck underneath) and by today’s standards it just seems heavy and tippy. Never really understood why its gets such a good right up on this forum as the beginners I see sail it and we have had quite a few on the river over the last couple of years struggle a lot. Not only to sail them but to just keep them up right. Good sailors do undoubtedly make them look good but average sailors just wind up retiring and towed back when the wind gets up

 

Ian

I think 4000s have quite a bit of power on them and to be honest would be out of your weight range even with the weight equalisation.  The 29er's the one to go for, and it's way more modern and doesn't look dated like the 4 tonner.  And Re the waves thang....the 29er is truly awesome in waves.  We get some nice big ones on a windy day down at Thorpe Bay and it's great for 29er sailing