Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
![]() |
Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
Why are GP 14's so fast? |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 123 5> |
Author | ||
tickel ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 408 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 28 Oct 06 at 11:28pm |
|
Many things in sailing leave me confused. One of them is sailing in light winds, below say 5 kts. Our Taser weighs 68 kilos and we are quite light. The Taser carries 11.43 sq m. A GP14 weighs in at 133 kilos and carries 12.85 sq m. plus a small kite 8.4 sq m. The extra sail area on the GP is presumably taken up by the genoa. Until there is sufficient wind for us to both sit on the same side and make the rig operate efficiently we have trouble getting away from a well sailed GP much less perform to our PY. I did wonder if wetted area could have somthing to do with it, a Tasar is wider and longer but a GP sits in the water like a barge and has two horrible rubbing strakes moulded into the bottom chines. The situation is even worse with a Laser 2 which sticks like hell in the light with 11.52 sq m and 80 kilos. It seems that whatever you do those old GP's keep on trundling along. All this changes dramaticaly when the wind gets to 12 kts but it is still frustrating in light stuff. Tasar PY is 1026, Laser 2 1035 and GP1147!!
We do accelerate better in little puffs but it just is'nt enough. Any technichal explanations? |
||
tickel
|
||
![]() |
||
laser47 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 349 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
momentum...nuff said. heavy boats take longer to accelerate but keep speed when the wind dies. This is why Omegas GP14's and Bosuns do so well at my club |
||
![]() |
||
tack'ho ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
i seem to recall that overlapping genoas make a big difference in light airs, something about accelerating the flow through the slot, think ac flaps and slats on approach.
|
||
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
|
||
![]() |
||
Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Wetted area, as you said. Consider Merlin Rockets. 30 year-old narrow designs are still competitive against modern MRs on rivers in light conditions. Wide modern hulls plane much faster and more readily and are much quicker on open water. |
||
![]() |
||
fizzicist ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Aug 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Combination of momentum and hull & foil shape. The GP goes well in light stuff, Enterprises even more so. If you look at the hull shape, there's a lot of freeboard and the stern of the boat is not designed around getting the boat planing early. As a result, in light winds, it is much much easier to get the transom out of the water, which reduces drag massively. Secondly their weight counts in their fvour as they don't decelerate as readily as yout Taser. Foil shape makes a big difference too - the GP & Ent have relatively short centreboards with a long cord, which gives them a lot of lift at low speed. Your Tasar I suspect will have much longer, narrower foils, which will do absolutely sod all until you get moving above 2-3 knots, at which point they lift like hell. The trick is to get the stern out of the water and eliminate drag. GP's are utter bandits on handicap though. |
||
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
||
![]() |
||
Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Or accelerate either. So that isn't the explanation. Your argument about lifting the stern is the same as mine: reducing wetted area is especially important at low speed. |
||
![]() |
||
Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Boats with lots of rocker go well in light winds. They can reduce wetted surface, tack easily and generally react better to what goes on around them. Also, soft sails are more easily read. I'd not have said that the GPs were anything like the best in those conditions, though. Round bottomed 2 sail boats (see that thread!) tend to be much happier.
|
||
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
||
![]() |
||
les5269 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1530 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
It does have something to do with weight (maybe not everything).We have beaten 49ers on the water in my old 5000 when it's very light. I put this down to the lighter boats sticking when they run out of the gusts whereas the 5000 just keeps trundling along into the next gust. It only goes out the window as the breeze gets up and the lighter boats start to move better.
|
||
49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!
Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
||
![]() |
||
fizzicist ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Aug 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
You tend to find that when it's light, there's lots of little zephrys and gusts - the heavy boats do well because they have the momentum which carries them into the next gust. The other problem very light boats like the Tasar have is that they have a habit of accelerating out of the front of the gust & the slower boats sit in it longer. The argument about boats with lots of rocker is more powerful though - look how well a phantom goes in light winds & look how easy it is to get the stern lifted on those. |
||
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
||
![]() |
||
rogerd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 123 5> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |