Comfy but quick s/h dinghy

   Having just spent 16 years in Dart 18s I`m now going back to dinghies - usual case of no regular crew.
Now then, before the Dart I spent 15 years in Lasers,so naturally went and bought another one after selling the cat .....  in 6 weeks I sailed it 6 times and every time had very painful knee joints which lasted for 2 to 3 days afterwards - looking back at I am now in my 40s .... 
I`ve had my fill of Open meetings  / Nationals  - done enough travelling and drinking   :-)  so happy just to club race from now on. 
What I`d like a few opinions on;....I`d like something quick but not going to spit me off every time its windy  - ruling out RS300s, Musto Skiff etc,  I don`t really want a trapeze boat  because of the knees thing, so I`ve narrowed the choice down to a Blaze or a Laser EPS. Both quick and modern looking....
Now, the EPS is in effect an obsolete boat due to Laser dropping the design through cost - (well if you WILL only sell them as a part of a package at £7,000) ..... but I think I`ve found a very tidy one for a reasonable price, new spare mast and various other spares - but before I throw my cash at it are there any known problems ?  
The Club I  sail at runs mostly handicap races including F/fifteens,Lasers, RS600, RS400,.Contenders etc so there will be something to play against.
Any opinions ? 

Edited by Darty

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Darty Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Sep 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Darty Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Comfy but quick s/h dinghy Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 12:22pm
	Having just spent 16 years in Dart 18s I`m now going back to dinghies - usual case of no regular crew. Now then, before the Dart I spent 15 years in Lasers,so naturally went and bought another one after selling the cat ..... in 6 weeks I sailed it 6 times and every time had very painful knee joints which lasted for 2 to 3 days afterwards - looking back at I am now in my 40s .... I`ve had my fill of Open meetings / Nationals - done enough travelling and drinking :-) so happy just to club race from now on. What I`d like a few opinions on;....I`d like something quick but not going to spit me off every time its windy - ruling out RS300s, Musto Skiff etc, I don`t really want a trapeze boat because of the knees thing, so I`ve narrowed the choice down to a Blaze or a Laser EPS. Both quick and modern looking.... Now, the EPS is in effect an obsolete boat due to Laser dropping the design through cost - (well if you WILL only sell them as a part of a package at £7,000) ..... but I think I`ve found a very tidy one for a reasonable price, new spare mast and various other spares - but before I throw my cash at it are there any known problems ? The Club I sail at runs mostly handicap races including F/fifteens,Lasers, RS600, RS400,.Contenders etc so there will be something to play against. Any opinions ? Edited by Darty

Isis Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753	Post Options Post Reply Quote Isis Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 12:39pm
	I know very little abotu the EPS (and not much more about the blaze for that matter) but Ive head some of them deveoped a problem with the wings filling up with water which would probibly be worth looking into if you intend to buy one... I suspect it doesnt make them very pleasent to sail with a gallon of water sloshing about out there.

Guests Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 12:48pm
	Go for a blaze, quite wide on the waterline so its fairly stable but thats not to say it isnt quick! With a fairly good second hand market they're probably your best bet but dont go for one with a fully battoned sail, no point in making your life harder. X-rig is a bit of a must i suspect. Doug

Charlie Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 209	Post Options Post Reply Quote Charlie Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 1:30pm
	Depending on your size, a Finn? nice and comfortable with a proper side to sit on, even has a cushion. Problem is the second hand market, they are quite rare, but you can get some decent examples for a couple of grand with carbon masts etc.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 2:00pm
	I'm not a fan of the EPS at all - I think cost was the least of its problems. For comfort I think one of the things you should be looking at is freeboard and depth of cockpit - I find its the shallow boats that really stuff up bits of you. Technique is a bag factor in preserving knees as well, so that's worth researching. What you definitely need to do is sail a few boats to find what suits your particular body shape. Phantoms might be worth a try - with a free interior layout they ought to have worked out some comfort. A lot depends on what size you are as well - Europe have nice rolled side decks, just about enough freeboard and you'll never get under the boom if you're 6'6 and 15 stone... [obligatory plug your own class spot] The definitive "save your knees" boat is of course the International Canoe, but it abjectly fails the "spit you off when windy" part of your requirements!

Jack Sparrow Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2965	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jack Sparrow Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 2:09pm
	Surely the best option would be a Vortex. OK a trap boat but like no other. Fast, stable, comfy and a sort of half way house from what you've been doing in cats and dinghies. That would be my suggestion. What ever hiker you get it's going to hurt your knees a bit. Edited by Jack Sparrow
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Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 4:35pm
	There are a couple of eps's at Whitefriars, one sailed by someone who was a very good Laser sailor but gave up due to gammy knees...They are certainly a boat for light weights - both ours are sailed by less than 11 stone helms - and I think Jim C's problems with them are to do with bing a little large for it! You certainly need a lot of practice in the windier conditions, as they certainly fall into the "spit you off when windy" catagory. Both our owners are very happy with the boats, and I've enjoyed playing in them, and if one happens to become available round the Wiltshire way at the right price, I'd be tempted.
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Darty Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 08 Sep 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote Darty Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 5:21pm
	Ah, the size thing .... I`m 5ft 9ins and an ex front row prop - stocky !!! However, this didn`t stop me in a Dart - especially in light aired inland championships. Even got some pots from light air Dart sailing - its all in the mind tharr knarrs .... think light I had considered a Finn - but as Charlie said, very rare to find a nice tidy one .... and they are a HEAVY boat at 140 kgs hull weight !!!! Also people had suggested a Phantom - then the same people guide you away from the wooden ones as they are said to be `slow` ... the GRP / Foam ones are still in the 4500 / 5000 quids bracket and I cant stretch to that. The wifey would shout about it too .... she does about the motorbikes Int Canoe ? ??? I`ll practice my breastroke now, shall I ?? Vortex ? Hmmmm ..... not a `pretty` boat and values are dropping like a big heavy rock since the Laser Centre dropped the class.... Hiking on a Dart 18 was `straight legged` - pretty much like I`m expecting an EPS / Blaze to be - what brought on the knee pain on the Laser was sitting crunched up in a ball in the tiny cockpit for an hour or so in light airs - I was ok if I could sit out properly. My views on an EPS / blaze - ------------------------------------------- Straight legged hiking - good Self Draining cockpits - good Light boat EPS @ 54kgs - good --- Blaze @70Kgs - still ok Known EPS problems are; masts breaking - quite rare though, wings leaking (?? maybe) Blaze problems - gotta have the `x` rig - costs around 2500 for a non `x` spec boat. both are still a modern design - good `x` boats start around 3500 No current builder so spares might be tight. - both classes PY ratings EPS 1013, Blaze 1047, Finn 1072, .... Laser 1078 ...... Hmmmmm ..... I think I`m getting to a decision .....

Villan Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Nov 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1768	Post Options Post Reply Quote Villan Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 8:36pm
	Phantom? Looks a lot sleeker than Finns, and sure does fly. (Edit - aha ... seen youve looked at it already) Vareo ..Spinaker for that extra "boost" downwind. Edited by Villan
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Rob.e Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 19 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 545	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rob.e Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 10:15pm
	Go for the Blaze: fast, fun, good 2nd hand value, no vices. If you buy an EPS, accept that you are throwing the money away- there is not much demand for them! I am looking for an OK at the mo', and you have to accept that the market isn't very lively, so if thats what you want, buy one at a price you can afford to write off. For example, there is An OK for sale now that won the nationals, is one of the competative hull shapes and has a carbon mast, but has been on the market for a few months, and has just dropped the price. I really want it, but can't afford to pay that kind of money without being sure of getting it back. I am quite uninspired by my Solo, but I could sell it tomorrow for what it cost me so there is no issue about owning it! Hope this helps!