Edition
Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
 |
| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
Passing (or stopping someone pass) on a reach?? |
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|||
ds797 
Newbie 
Joined: 28 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Passing (or stopping someone pass) on a reach??Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 6:20pm |
|||
|
Reaching leg (i.e. not upwind and not downwind, exact angle unimportant but lets say 90degrees to true wind)...
Should the front boat sail the straight course to next mark? (don't think they have to as they can come up in lulls and go down in puffs) How much course change can they make to attempt to stop the boat behind from passing?? Surely zig-zagging is "unsportsmanlike", but is it prohibited? Is there still "proper course"? How is it defined? Cheers! |
||||
 |
||||
|
zippyRN
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 7:18pm |
|||
|
has it changed since you asked the question last in this thread ?
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10918&title=luffing-rights-proper-course-2013-rule |
||||
|
||||
|
ds797
Newbie
Joined: 28 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 30 Nov 14 at 7:22pm |
|||
|
I don't know! You tell me! The previous answers seemed less than conclusive.
|
||||
|
||||
|
jeffers
Really should get out more 
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 6:53am |
|||
|
The rules are pretty clear on this, you should read the rule book, it limits the actions of boats when they are in close proximity to each other. outside of that as long as they are not breach rule 42 they can pretty much do what they like. Whether this is fact than the shortest distance between the marks depends on how good the sailor is.
|
||||
|
Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
||||
|
||||
|
knotty78
Newbie
Joined: 09 Mar 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 2:51pm |
|||
|
proper course is defined as the fastest route to the finish line, not the next mark, but in definition its the fastest route for the boat being sailed from its current position to the next waypoint
|
||||
|
||||
|
Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Dec 14 at 3:33pm |
|||
|
If your proper course (ie, you'd be doing it whether the other boat was there or not) would be to luff in the lulls and bear off in the gusts, then you can carry on doing the luffing part of this even if you aren't in a position where you are allowed to luff the other boat for tactical reasons. You aren't allowed to bear away, though, if there is a boat to leeward which you will impede, so if you overtake a slower boat to windward, then catch a big gust (especially when flying an assy), you either have to rag it, swim or both...
If you are overtaking a boat to leeward and the wind drops, then you can alter course to suit. However, as it is likely that at least part of the wind dropping will be because you are in the lee of the other boat, you'd have to be pretty damn sure of yourself when taking it to protest, as altering course because of the other boat's wind shadow is not proper course. |
||||
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
||||
|
||||
|
Brass
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 10:07pm |
|||
Maybe you are not grasping the fairly straightforward application of rule 17 because you are under a misconception about how the game should be played. Unlike a swimming race, or a 100m running race, which are based on pure speed, the Racing Rules of Sailing permit boats to interact with one another, in the course of a race so as to gain or defend tactical advantages, depending on the rights and obligations imposed by the rules. In particular, the rules have always traditionally permitted a boat being overtaken to 'defend her wind', that is to prevent a boat 'overtaking' to windward from blanketing her to wind by luffing and driving the windward boat further to windward. Conversely, a boat 'overtaking' to leeward is forbidden, by rule 17 from unnecessarily interfering with a boat to windward, even though she has right of way. So 'zig-zagging' is not only not unsportsmanlike, but is an essential part of the game as it is played.
Quite correct
If the boat behind is attempting to pass to windward (from clear astern becomes overlapped to windward) there is no limitation on how high the leeward boat can sail to defend herself, right up until she gets to and past head to wind, at which point she has changed tack and becomes the give way boat under rule 13. If the boat behind becomes overlapped to leeward, if she becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths of the other boat, she is limited by rule 17 which requires her to sail no higher than her proper course (which is a defined term and has bee discussed in these threads). If there is more than 2 hull lengths between the boats when they become overlapped, rule 17 does not apply and there is no proper course limitation.
|
||||
|
||||
|
craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Dec 14 at 10:38pm |
|||
|
Just to make it clear to the OP, the rules allow a boat clear ahead to sail where they like. There is no obligation to sail a proper course but clearly it is in their interests to do so.
The rules only come into play when overlaps are formed. |
||||
|
||||
|
gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 7:50am |
|||
|
When a boat that is clear ahead changes course her only restriction is that when doing so she must give the other boat room to keep clear (rule 16)
|
||||
|
Gordon
|
||||
|
||||
|
ds797
Newbie
Joined: 28 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 5:57pm |
|||
|
Ok are these statements correct.....?
1- If I'm trying to pass a boat in front, if I try to sail to windward of her she can luff up to head to wind (which I would have to also do to avoid collision). 2- If I'm trying to pass to leeward of her, she can immediately turn up to around 90 degrees to "block" me from passing that side. 3- Therefore the boat in front can basically weave around by up to around 180 degrees to block me from passing. So the only way I could pass would be to head off way to leeward of her and establish an overlap some distance downwind of her? Obviously the front boat "weaving" is not sensible for the front boat to do in a multiboat handicap race as the people behind will catch up, but if its a series and you need to finish in front of me it would be a usable tactic...... |
||||
|
||||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy