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2013 racing rules

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9969
Printed Date: 29 Mar 24 at 9:06am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 2013 racing rules
Posted By: x1testpilot
Subject: 2013 racing rules
Date Posted: 24 Oct 12 at 2:45pm
Last night at the London Corinthian Sailing Club in Hammersmith Chris Simon gave his first talk on the new 2013 racing rules. Mostly rule tidying but a few changes (e.g. trash and batten popping allowed. It was an excellent talky - highly recommended if you get a chance - he is going to a number of Thames valley clubs.

Only 2 months left to exploit the old loopholes.

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I like to take pictures of sailing, but I'd rather be sailing!
http://www.LCSC.org.uk" rel="nofollow - LCSC.org.uk
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Replies:
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by x1testpilot

e.g. trash (edit NOT ALLOWED) and batten popping allowed. 
 
What did he have to say about the new 'Trash' rule.
I note there is no clear definition of what constitues 'Trash'.
Woe betide that careless round the world crew member that discards an apple core over the side in the middle of the  Southern Ocean!
Don't get me wrong, I am all for being a clean and responsible sport, just wondering how it will be enforced, after all what is one persons trash is anothers treasure...


Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 3:22pm
RRS
Terminology A term used in the sense stated in the Definitions is printed in italics or, in preambles, in bold italics (for example, racing and racing). ‘Racing rule’ means a rule in The Racing Rules of Sailing. ‘Boat’ means a sailboat and the crew on board; ‘vessel’ means any boat or ship. ‘Race committee’ includes any person or committee performing a race committee function. A ‘change’ to a rule includes an addition to it or deletion of all or part of it. ‘National authority’ means an ISAF member national authority. Other words and terms are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical or general use.

Dictionary  http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/trash?q=trash - Definition of trash
noun [mass noun]

1 chiefly North American waste material; refuse:
the subway entrance was blocked with trash

cultural items, ideas, or objects of poor quality:
if they read at all, they read trash

2 North American a person or people regarded as being of very low social standing:
clubs patronized by rock trash

3 (also cane trash) West Indian the leaves, tops, and crushed stems of sugar cane, used as fuel.


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed


Dictionary  http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/trash?q=trash - Definition of trash
noun [mass noun]
 
 
Thanks Ed,
 
As I said, or to quote a well known phrase 'what is one persons trash, is another persons treasure'
It is a rather indescript term, which can be interpreted in any way you wish.
At one end of the scale, something deliberately jettisoned/discharged overboard which could be enviromentally harmful and could be solid, liquid or indeed gaseos at ambient temperature, versus the realistic example which I gave in my previous post...
I will be curious to hear the first case against a competitor, and what penalty/sanction can be applied.
Does it only apply whilst 'racing', or more likely be a breach whilst sitting in your Laser between races when you discard your Mars* bar wrapper over the side?
 
*Other popular confectionary is also available at your local stockist.
 


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 7:56pm
I suspect thatmany SIs will allow for alternative penalties for breaches of this rule. As it is written the debris often found floating round a capsized boat may well be considered as trash.

It will be interesting to see how the same principle is applied to coaches, official boats etc. Asa judge or umpire I am always very careful not to let any rubbish fall overboard.


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Gordon


Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 8:00pm
Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.

My emphasis.  

And therefore while a capsize might lead to trash in the water it would not be punishable...nor presumably would your Mars Bar blowing away in a F6.

And come to that what about a defence that you were cleaning the wrapper before stuffing it in your PDF, and when the boat lurched on the wave I dropped it...

Intentaion is hard to prove (unless you're an offshore yacht caught dropping a bin bag in) (although even then - whoops we slipped at the stern locker and over it went.

Any rule which relies on intent has got to be tricky.


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 26 Oct 12 at 6:24am
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.

My emphasis.  

And therefore while a capsize might lead to trash in the water it would not be punishable...nor presumably would your Mars Bar blowing away in a F6.

And come to that what about a defence that you were cleaning the wrapper before stuffing it in your PDF, and when the boat lurched on the wave I dropped it...

Intentaion is hard to prove (unless you're an offshore yacht caught dropping a bin bag in) (although even then - whoops we slipped at the stern locker and over it went.

Any rule which relies on intent has got to be tricky.
 
Indeed, and the bit about 'at all times when boats are on the water'
It doesn't even say that the competitor themselves must be afloat or on their boat at the time...
Saturday night, Cowes week, apres sail, drop an empty beer can off the quayside...
I can imagine a trash rule like that in motor racing. Lewis Hamilton being penalised 5 places on the grid because Nicole dropped a fag end out the window at the lights on Fulham high st...


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 26 Oct 12 at 7:07am
But ir's a good sign that this is all we can fiind to moan about...


Posted By: x1testpilot
Date Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 12:29pm
Chris seemed to think even trowing a dead match overboard could count - so smokers beware!

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I like to take pictures of sailing, but I'd rather be sailing!
http://www.LCSC.org.uk" rel="nofollow - LCSC.org.uk
http://xdinghies.com/" rel="nofollow - Xdinghies.com/ X0 & X1


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 1:28pm
Or if you intentionally neglect to attach water bottle, food bag or other items to the boat, then capsize leaving these items to drift away!

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Gordon


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 3:01pm
I think its a great rule. Won't achieve much, but does start a conversation over environmental issues.

Can it be extended to cover race preparation ashore? I hate it when you see people ashore pulling old tape off shrouds, pins etc and then just chucking it. Crazy how some people assume this type of thing just disappears by magic.


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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 4:18pm
I sometimes wonder if archaeologists will be able to spot sailing clubs in a thousand years time by the layer of old shackle pins and PVC tape.

Mind you having said that PVC tape and many other plastics do disintegrate quite satisfactorily given enough UV exposure, which is why our dinghy parks aren't a foot deep in the stuff.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Nov 12 at 12:25pm
Given that whole containers of stuff (which rapidly becomes trash) falls off container ships, I'm not sure that a burnt match is going to make a lot of difference. I guess we have to do what we can, though.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 02 Nov 12 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed


55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.


... I can see some problems here, especially in Rio when the first person to launch a laser gets protested out. LOL


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Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 02 Nov 12 at 1:35pm
Joking aside Rio has huge environmental problems. The sailing area contains a heady mixture of sewage and waste

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/fast_track/9754390.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/fast_track/9754390.stm



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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 02 Nov 12 at 1:38pm
I am sure they will take steps to clear that up. Whether it will stay clean after the Olympics is another matter!

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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74



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