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Ben Ainslie Racing

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Multihulls
Forum Name: America's Cup
Forum Discription: Your thoughts on challenges to win the 'Auld Mug'
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8885
Printed Date: 01 Aug 21 at 11:34am
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Topic: Ben Ainslie Racing
Posted By: ellistine
Subject: Ben Ainslie Racing
Date Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 8:21pm
Bit of breaking news on SA at the moment.



Replies:
Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 8:33pm
10am Tuesday is the official announcement - it'll be streaming live on YachtsandYachting.com


Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 8:36pm


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Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 09 Jan 12 at 7:40am
 
BAR  AC45

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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 8:09am
And what's wrong with this picture??




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Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 12:30pm
flag balls up

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Posted By: pondmonkey
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 12:37pm
not on the other tack fellas....  (unless K's refering to the Oracle branding on the jib...)


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 12:51pm
Upside down on the port side and on both hulls. Haven't seen the starboard side full yet but I suspect that's the same graphic.

That's the trouble when an American team pretends to be British.


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Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 12:56pm
I thought initially they must have borrowed the jib but the grey has been re-coloured so this must be the jib he'll be using. Is the BAR boat actually the Coutts boat?




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Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 1:57pm
havent seen a starboard side picture yet, the hoist is meant to be from the left with the wide white section pinwheeling to towards the top, so they may have put it on upside down or have the hoist from the right.

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Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 2:24pm
The flag is symetrical so turning it through 180 degrees will make no difference. You cannot flip it as you would a cloth flag and it is not being flown from the right if you compare it to the USA flag.
 
Now putting the port flag on the starboard side and probably vice versa would help...


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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by slop_idol

havent seen a starboard side picture yet, the hoist is meant to be from the left with the wide white section pinwheeling to towards the top, so they may have put it on upside down or have the hoist from the right.

The hoist should be on the mast (flagpole) side. So port and starboard graphics must be different.
If there is no flagpole then hoist should be on the left.

Shouldn't it be an Ensign anyway or a Jack (ie with white border)?

Merchant Shipping Act 1995
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21  
Section 4.




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Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 4:19pm
Glad you mentioned the white border. I didn't know about that. There was a keel boat moored in Portland Harbour during the games with an almighty gurt Union Flag with a white border. I did wonder why it had a border.

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Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Contender443

The flag is symetrical so turning it through 180 degrees will make no difference. You cannot flip it as you would a cloth flag and it is not being flown from the right if you compare it to the USA flag.
 
Now putting the port flag on the starboard side and probably vice versa would help...
 
union flag is not symmetrical, it is pinwheeled


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Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by JohnW

Originally posted by slop_idol

havent seen a starboard side picture yet, the hoist is meant to be from the left with the wide white section pinwheeling to towards the top, so they may have put it on upside down or have the hoist from the right.

The hoist should be on the mast (flagpole) side. So port and starboard graphics must be different.
If there is no flagpole then hoist should be on the left.

Shouldn't it be an Ensign anyway or a Jack (ie with white border)?

Merchant Shipping Act 1995
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21  
Section 4.


 
exactly so looking at the leading edge on the port side the current flag is hoisted upsidedown.


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Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by ellistine

Glad you mentioned the white border. I didn't know about that. There was a keel boat moored in Portland Harbour during the games with an almighty gurt Union Flag with a white border. I did wonder why it had a border.

Because it was a Union Jack, not a Union Flag and hence not a criminal offence to fly it.

I saw it too.  It was probably visible from space!

Found a pic:





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Posted By: SoggyBadger
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by JohnW

Because it was a Union Jack, not a Union Flag and hence not a criminal offence to fly it.


Section 4.1.a.ii of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.

"(ii)the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or"

The yacht in the photo is fully comply with the law. She could also fly the Red Ensign if she so wished but not a Union Flag/Jack without a white border unless she has permission from either Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State.



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Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB



Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

Originally posted by JohnW

Because it was a Union Jack, not a Union Flag and hence not a criminal offence to fly it.


Section 4.1.a.ii of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995.

"(ii)the Union flag (commonly known as the Union Jack) with a white border, or"

The yacht in the photo is fully comply with the law. She could also fly the Red Ensign if she so wished but not a Union Flag/Jack without a white border unless she has permission from either Her Majesty or from the Secretary of State.


Yes agreed, the one with the gurt big flag is compliant. 
But Ben's AC45 isn't (unless it is a Royal Naval vessel, which Im pretty sure it is not).



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Aug 12 at 10:41pm
Yea gods, who dreams up these stupid rules? Do they date back to the time of the union? Does this mean all the guys with union flags on their spinnakers at the Olympics are going to end up in the Tower?

As for flying the Flag upside down, why wasn't it simply designed symmetrical in the 1st place, so no one got beheaded for getting it wrong?


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Rupert



As for flying the Flag upside down, why wasn't it simply designed symmetrical in the 1st place, so no one got beheaded for getting it wrong?
 
its to give the scottish section precedence over the northern irish. 


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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by slop_idol

Originally posted by Rupert



As for flying the Flag upside down, why wasn't it simply designed symmetrical in the 1st place, so no one got beheaded for getting it wrong?
 
its to give the scottish section precedence over the northern irish. 


I guess that makes as much sense as all the rest of it... at least NI gets a small nod - better than the western Principality called Wales.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: SoggyBadger
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by JohnW

Yes agreed, the one with the gurt big flag is compliant. 
But Ben's AC45 isn't (unless it is a Royal Naval vessel, which Im pretty sure it is not).


If you referring to the photo on the previous page of this thread, I can't see any flag being flown. I don't think a Union Jack on a sail (or the hull even) is regarded as a flag.


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Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 1:50pm
Has anyone figured out if Mark got the union jack Y&Y logo the right way up?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Has anyone figured out if Mark got the union jack Y&Y logo the right way up?
Looks fine and dandy to me.


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Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 18 Aug 12 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

Originally posted by JohnW

Yes agreed, the one with the gurt big flag is compliant. 
But Ben's AC45 isn't (unless it is a Royal Naval vessel, which Im pretty sure it is not).


If you referring to the photo on the previous page of this thread, I can't see any flag being flown. I don't think a Union Jack on a sail (or the hull even) is regarded as a flag.

I think you are technically correct. I believe that it is an emblem rather than a flag. 
However, the emblem represents a flag so perhaps it should be a correct representation of the flag.
It the stars and stripes emblem on the other boat was upside down there would be some complaints made.



Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 21 Aug 12 at 11:51am
Rita lives! (Rear beam)

Don't think much of the paint durability mind.




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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 21 Aug 12 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by slop_idol

Originally posted by Rupert



As for flying the Flag upside down, why wasn't it simply designed symmetrical in the 1st place, so no one got beheaded for getting it wrong?
 
its to give the scottish section precedence over the northern irish. 


I guess that makes as much sense as all the rest of it... at least NI gets a small nod - better than the western Principality called Wales.

The red diagonals weren't added for Northern Ireland, they were added for the whole of Ireland, long before partition. The original flag from 1606 (designed to mark the 1603 union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England (the latter of which included the principality of Wales long before that) didn't have the red diagonals. They were added for the (formal) union with the Kingdom of Ireland in 1801.

The flag of Ulster, after all, is the St George's Cross with the red hand, not the cross of St Patrick. Arguably we should have gone back to the pre-1801 flag (which would of course solve the whole "upside down" issue).



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-_
Al


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 22 Aug 12 at 8:23am
Fixed!




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Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 30 Aug 12 at 2:54pm
Did anybody follow the recent AC43 series in San Francisco?   BA blogged it was all a bit of learing experience for him and he was happy enough with mediocre results.  It seemed to me (very subjectively - I know nothing about this sort of racing) that in the fleet racing he was quite often stuck behind or under another boat and that his results improved on the few occasions he managed to find a clear lane - which made me wonder why he did not tack off into clear wind in mid course more often instead of continuing on to the edge of the course.  In fact most boats seemed to sail to the edges of the course area anyway before tacking/gybing. Given the loss of speed in the turn, the AC43s maybe aim to reduce turns to a minimum.
 
There was a lot of chat from the commentators about which side of the rather narrow course was favoured but, apart from heading to the "favoured" side after passing a gate, in the long run it did not seem to me to make much difference as the boats went out to both sides anyway.


Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 30 Aug 12 at 3:04pm
It all seems to be so timing critical. You need the most perfect start, every start. You need to deploy the gennaker at exactly the right time (too early you sink the bows, too late they have to grind it all in - according to Ben) and somehow be hitting the boundaries in phase with the shifts! I think they're all pretty much similar on boat speed. It's all going to come down to maneuvers and timing. Obviously not spearing the committee boat also helps Wink

[TUBE]6fbFT1JWw7Y&list=FLSdcQUPOhfZOSfdNN3CWVYg&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/TUBE]


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