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Laser setup

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8618
Printed Date: 22 May 22 at 10:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Laser setup
Posted By: doeywizard
Subject: Laser setup
Date Posted: 04 Dec 11 at 10:07pm
Hi, 

I have a laser and have sailed it a bit, I was wandering what the best way of attaching the sail to the boom is, is it a clue strap, or can you buy a clue hook, some people use rope, what do you think?

I should let you know as well as the out haul clip that goes through the sail I have a elastic with a clip on to help let my out haul off.  

Please help 

Thanks Isaac  



Replies:
Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 04 Dec 11 at 10:41pm
Traditionally, the clew was tied around the boom (2 x turns) with a bit of rope ; something quite slippey like Dyneema rather than something with a grippy outer sheath.
In recent years, many are favouring a clew 'strap' which has overlapping velcro fastening.
 
There is also a  'builder supplied' Harken stainless steel boom strap with a quick release hook which is the most expensive option.
 
I wouldn't say that one method was any better, or give any performance gain than another.
The important thing is that the clew of the sail is as tight to the boom as possible (= tight leech/pointing ability), whilst being able to slide along it with minimum friction.
Out on the water, I would be entirely satisfied to tie the clew down, but I choose to use a quick release system purely and simply for ease of rigging.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 04 Dec 11 at 11:01pm
have used all three methods.

i found the stainless boom strap ran badly on the boom. i would go for a bit of rope or a clew strap.


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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 12:23am
I always used the rooster clew strap, the standard laser one was hopeless and always came undone.  The most important thing is to make sure that when you put the clew strap on you pull it right through the clew of the sail so that the ring of the strap is tight against the clew eye. This seems to stop them coming undone and gets rid of the friction of the ring sliding over the boom.  If you are worried just back it up with a bit of rope but the problem with just using rope is that it becomes very hard to undo after sailing in some breeze.  Especially in the winter it is very nice to be able to undo some velcro rather than a fiddly knot with cold hands and numb fingers!

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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 9:05am
These days the best bets are the Clew Sleeve or the Clew Strap.
 
Personally I use a Clew Strap and find it to be great. I have seen others who use the sleeve but they say it is a lot of work to keep it running smoothly.
 
Strap around 5-10 (depending on where you get it from).
 
Sleeve Around 30+ (I seem to recall).
 
No brainer in my book......


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: doeywizard
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 6:26pm
Thanks, my clew strap came undone a few times, what make would you recommend?


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 6:38pm
The Rooster one never failed me;
http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=621&Category_Code=lo&SortBy - http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=621&Category_Code=lo&SortBy =
 
I guess any could eventually fail when the velcro has given up.
 


Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 7:05pm
My 13 year old uses the harken sleeve, and so long as it is regularly sprayed with lubricant it is a great piece of kit. Even on a breezy day rigging the outhall is really quick.


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by GarethT

My 13 year old uses the harken sleeve, and so long as it is regularly sprayed with lubricant it is a great piece of kit. Even on a breezy day rigging the outhall is really quick.
 
+1
I have the elastic inhaul hooked up to it as well. So quick and easy to rig.
 


Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Dec 11 at 8:20pm
I had the Rooster clew, fine for me. The Harken sleeve came out when I sailed the Laser and was not rated highly at the time.

The rope was too fiddly for me, trying to tie it with a flapping sail made me change


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Posted By: robinft
Date Posted: 06 Dec 11 at 12:11pm
These are good, never had a problem:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-clew-strap-brand-new-/140655079822?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item20bfb2318e - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-clew-strap-brand-new-/140655079822?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item20bfb2318e

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Laser number 9


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 3:57pm

Just setting up an old Laser for the kids so simplicity and reliability are key.

The missus' Radial has the metal sleeve which is great for convenience but sticks, so I thought I would be clever and bought the Harken ring thingy with 16mm block and a standard velcro strap, thinking in my naivety that they would just clip together.
Has anyone done this successfully and if so a photo would be most kind.
Thanks
Tim, Contender 622


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 4:10pm
Hi Tim,

I did experiment with putting the hooke on to the velcro strap when I first upgraded my boat to the new rigging.

I found this did not work well at all and the strap and hook need to go through the clew eye separately in order to keep the clew in the correct place in relation to the boom.

If the clew sleeve works on the other rig then keep it. These are a bit of a marmite part though.

Cheers,

Paul


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 5:03pm
Marmite?
 
Thanks Paul,
Stupid thing is the strap and Harken ring together cost me 3 quid more than the full Harken sleeve, probably should have gone that route in hindsight, we are used to spraying Topper booms anyway.
 
If the strap and Harken loop both have to pass through the clew, then what's the point of the loop? ($$)
 
Just to clarify, this is the hook/loop thingy I have:
http://www.purplemarine.com/offshore/harken-16mm-air-block-hook.html - http://www.purplemarine.com/offshore/harken-16mm-air-block-hook.html
 
Cheers
Tim


Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 5:32pm
Marmite - you either love it or hate it.

I recall a convo with Jon E when the Metal sleeve hook thing came out, they advised the Laser audience that they were not worth it as they do tend to stick.

What I did was used the velcro strap, pulled the whole thing through the clew eye then tied it off. The hook block then was attached separately. I used to have the older holt setup not the harken one.

I'd suggest if possibly trying to find a local Laser club or circuit event and seeing how others do it, each to there own.



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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 8:23pm
I think you are confused.  You do not use the harken ring and the clew strap together. Its an either,or, thing. If you use the harken metal strap it has the block and hook attached to it. If you use the strap you still have to have the block and the outhaul primary line seperate.  If you use the strap you use a hook style block, the best one is the old holt one, at least i think so, i dont really trust the bent harken hook.

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Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 02 May 12 at 10:24pm
Someone tried the sleeve at our club, where we launch of the beach. He ditched it after one trial, all you need is a few grains of sand to get washed in when you launch and it jams. 
I use a velcro strap with a teflon or similar pad stitched to it so it slides a bit better, seems to work for me (plus some silicon spray) - can't remember where I got it from though.


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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 03 May 12 at 10:33am
[QUOTE=laser193713] You do not use the harken ring and the clew strap together. Its an either,or, thing.QUOTE]
So why is the hook supplied without the sleeve?
 
What about the hook and an old skool Dyneema loop in place of the strap?
I understand about the holt hook block, got them on the Toppers and yes they seem solid.
 
Cont 707, isn't that Dives's old battleaxe? You must be ESSC than Peter.
 
Tim Cont 622 (PBSC)


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 03 May 12 at 10:51am
The hook is supplied because it is not the only thing harken use it for. The reason not to use dyneema is that it is really important to get the clew down tight to the boom. Without this you lose leach tension and pointing suffers. Trying to undo a tight dyneema knot with cold fingers at the end of a winter training session is my idea of hell! A nice bit of velcro makes this much easier! Theres you're reason!

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Posted By: deadrock
Date Posted: 09 May 12 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I think you are confused.  You do not use the harken ring and the clew strap together. Its an either,or, thing. If you use the harken metal strap it has the block and hook attached to it. If you use the strap you still have to have the block and the outhaul primary line seperate.  If you use the strap you use a hook style block, the best one is the old holt one, at least i think so, i dont really trust the bent harken hook.

193713 is entirely right when he says: "It's an either/or thing." The ILCA Rule 3(g)(i)) states:
"The clew of the sail shall be attached to the boom by either a tie line or a webbing strap with or without  fastening device wrapped around the boom and through the sail cringle, a quick release system attached to a tie line or soft strap wrapped around the boom, or a "Builder Supplied" stainless steel boom slide with quick release system. An additional outhaul extension tie line may be added between the clew of the sail and the outhaul or the quick release system."

In other words, you are allowed one system and one system only. You are not allowed a redundant back-up. The final sentence is to allow a Radial sailor to use the same outhaul system with a 4.7 sail without re-jigging the entire system.

In 35 years of Laser sailing the velcro strap has been one of the most effective innovations allowed on the boat, and certainly the most cost-effective. Keep the fluff of the hooky side of the velcro and it'll last longer.

UK Laser Association Measurer


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 10 May 12 at 9:30am
Thank you for your definitive answer Mr. Measurer.
 
What I have ended up doing is using the velcro strap pulled through the Harken hook(not sleeve).
The advantage being no fiddly doing & undoing of the velcro, and less velcro wear.
Disadvantage it puts about 1/2 an inch between the boom & sail.
 
Would this be legal under the wording
"webbing strap with or without  fastening device"
 
Also, is a turning block tied to the outhaul saddle at the end of the boom permitted?
 
Many thanks
Tim Cont622


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 10 May 12 at 10:44am
Originally posted by deadrock

Originally posted by laser193713

I think you are confused.  You do not use the harken ring and the clew strap together. Its an either,or, thing. If you use the harken metal strap it has the block and hook attached to it. If you use the strap you still have to have the block and the outhaul primary line seperate.  If you use the strap you use a hook style block, the best one is the old holt one, at least i think so, i dont really trust the bent harken hook.

193713 is entirely right when he says: "It's an either/or thing." The ILCA Rule 3(g)(i)) states:
"The clew of the sail shall be attached to the boom by either a tie line or a webbing strap with or without  fastening device wrapped around the boom and through the sail cringle, a quick release system attached to a tie line or soft strap wrapped around the boom, or a "Builder Supplied" stainless steel boom slide with quick release system. An additional outhaul extension tie line may be added between the clew of the sail and the outhaul or the quick release system."

In other words, you are allowed one system and one system only. You are not allowed a redundant back-up. The final sentence is to allow a Radial sailor to use the same outhaul system with a 4.7 sail without re-jigging the entire system.

In 35 years of Laser sailing the velcro strap has been one of the most effective innovations allowed on the boat, and certainly the most cost-effective. Keep the fluff of the hooky side of the velcro and it'll last longer.

UK Laser Association Measurer

One of the most stupid rules in the laser is the redundancy rule.  I once had a wobbly boom end mainsheet block so tied a line through the outhaul eye round the block and back over the boom in a sort of figure of eight.  It was slack so was not giving me any advantage.  The measurer came round and told me I had to take it off despite a long sail to and from the sailing area.  If this had broken and I had to retire then either one of the very few safety boats would have had to tow me in or it would have been a really long slog in a fair amount of breeze! Surely some consideration for the safety of the sailor should be included!? Apparently not.  It is things like this that made me leave lasers in the end.


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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 10 May 12 at 12:41pm
Part of the argument with the Laser is that you buy in to the one design and the limitations and restrictions of the rules as is.

If you are going to do championship level sailing then your boat needs to comply. 

The counter argument would be why did you not spend 5 minutes with a drill and a rivet gun and sort out the wobbly boom block? If you didn't have the stuff there is usually a chandler close by or another competitor who is willing to help out for a beer or 2.

Whenever I have a large event coming up (at club level) I always give the boat a once over the week before so I can pick out any potential issues prior to getting myself stuck.

I will add that i am slightly hypocritical in that I am an advocate of replica sails for club sailing purely on the grounds that the genuine article is:

1) Not currently available for purchase until mid-june
2) Seriously expensive for what it is
3) Does not last for any appreciable period of time

Once they sort out the longevity and availability issues I will be moving back to a genuine article for all my Laser sailing.


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 10 May 12 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by jeffers


If you are going to do championship level sailing then your boat needs to comply. 

The counter argument would be why did you not spend 5 minutes with a drill and a rivet gun and sort out the wobbly boom block? If you didn't have the stuff there is usually a chandler close by or another competitor who is willing to help out for a beer or 2.

Whenever I have a large event coming up (at club level) I always give the boat a once over the week before so I can pick out any potential issues prior to getting myself stuck.


Well it was a world championships at a venue with no chandlery other than the locked Laser Performance van. My boat did comply completely until 5 minutes before launching when I noticed the wobbly block while threading my mainsheet. So grabbed a bit of string out of my BA pocket and while tying it on the measurer came over and told me off for it. 

Trust me, if I had the time to do the work I would.  Its all very good being told to fix it properly now, a good 5 years after the event. Of course I know that now too! To be fair as soon as I got home I retired the boom to be used for club racing and put the string back on and never replaced the rivets, they never failed! 

All I am saying is there are a few rules like this in lasers which when put together make you wonder why you bother. Obviously the racing is second to none but when other things, such as life, gets in the way of training you fall out of the top of the fleet and even the racing becomes a bit tedious. Nobody likes moving down a fleet do they!? Anyway, that is why I bought the 100, because life has got in the way, at least with that I can rock up to an event and hopefully get a decent result, and if not be sailing an enjoyable boat. As it stands, life has been so in the way that I haven't had a chance to even sail the boat this year although hopefully in the next few weeks that will all be different!


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Posted By: doeywizard
Date Posted: 13 May 12 at 4:33pm
Hi, this is a bit different to the thread I set up but I was just wandering if anyone knew of any cheap laser radial rigs for sail secondhand. Any part of it will do, but would like to have a completed rig (sail and lower mast) for around 150-200. 
Thanks 


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Topper 46148 for sale    
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=276804


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 14 May 12 at 7:50pm
I will have a look in the garage and PM you, think I may still have some bits lying around but not sure what! Are you looking for upper masts and booms too?




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Posted By: doeywizard
Date Posted: 15 May 12 at 9:32am
Thanks, erm I am just looking for the sail and lower mast. 
   Thanks 


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Topper 46148 for sale    
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=276804


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 15 May 12 at 4:40pm
No luck I am afraid.  Didn't check up in the roof of the garage but all i could find down the bottom was a standard sail and bottom section.  There are lots of other bits around in the garage too so if you ever need anything on the cheap then give me a shout. Sorry I didnt PM you but didnt seem much point having not found anything!

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Posted By: doeywizard
Date Posted: 17 May 12 at 8:17am
thanks anyway 

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Topper 46148 for sale    
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=276804



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