Print Page | Close Window

Knee Support

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Banter
Forum Discription: For all those non-sailing related discussions
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6771
Printed Date: 23 Nov 19 at 1:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Knee Support
Posted By: bluey
Subject: Knee Support
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 3:36pm

Hi, Have been struggling recently with my knees, especially after lots of hiking. I am tyrying to find anyhting that I can wear whilst sailing that can provide support to my knees to help reduce the severe aching I suffer after a days racing  Does anybody have any advice. Thanks




Replies:
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 4:03pm

i normally wear a basic support when doing offshore stuff and used to wear a musto (i think, was a long time ago) neoprene pair for sailing the contender.

ive had to cancel sailing for the rest of this year due to knee and foot ligament injuries!  but when i get back into it i'll be having a closer look at the spinlock knee pads.  not just padding but proper support apparently.  cheapest here

http://www.force4.co.uk/6229/Spinlock--Knee-Pads.html - http://www.force4.co.uk/6229/Spinlock--Knee-Pads.html

although you can buy them direct from spinlock.

alterantives are proper knee supports, there are different types for different problems, be it the inside of your leg, outside, somewhere inbetween, muscular, ligaments, etc etc.  best consult with a gp or sports physio.

best of luck



-------------
https://www.facebook.com/OJSPhoto" rel="nofollow - OJSPhotography
https://www.youtube.com/ojsphotography/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 868
Marconi SC


Posted By: bluey
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 4:18pm

I looked at most of the knee pads on general sale and the Spinlock ones looked ideal, but thought I would see if anybody else had any other suggestions. 

I had to take three months out last year because of my knees and want to avoid the same this year..  

Dropped Spinlock a line yesterday, as I sail normally sail an OK as well as an Enterprise with my kids and was not sure they would have the flexibility, but they have suggested  they are fine for dinghy sailing.



Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 4:25pm

When I had knee issues a few years ago I wore a neoprene knee support with an exposed patella, that did the trick along with some other general care such as cod liver oil and hitting the gym.

Now I find my knees are fine even after a hard day sailing. I decent pair of hikers might help you as they help reduce fatigue in the upper leg muscles meaning you dont tend to put all the strain through the knee joint.

Just my 2p...from a Laser sailor, probably one of the most physical boats to hike out there (others may disagree).



-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 9:58pm
I have used the style of support that "jeffers" suggests & back up his post 100% but also advise talking to your GP because differant supports do differant jobs

-------------
Phantom 1181
AC-227 IC 304
blaze / halo 586




Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 25 May 10 at 10:36pm

What boat do you sail? I know from personal knee trouble that there are at least 2 (the ones i have suffered from) very distinct types of knee problems but most others and both of the ones i have suffered from are just a case of building the muscles in your knees. 

My first knee trouble was in oppies when i was about 13... this was caused by the hiking style of the oppy which is a fairly bent leg style, with a fairly narrow gunwhale under your knee joint, rather than on the back of your leg.  This leads to a very powerful seperation force in your knee as well as cutting blood supply to the muscles in your legs.  This eventually becomes very painful.  The muscles in your knee are not really designed to deal with the knee seperating like this, they are much more suited to being compressed such as when you are running or walking etc. So for sailing these muscles need to be extra strong.

My next load of knee trouble came in lasers. This was caused by a bad hiking style but not due to the loss of circulation. The best advice i have found for this is from rooster sailing who have a guide for hiking style, which i will try and find after writing this.

I occasionally wore a knee support that i bought in tesco, I also was in the RYA squads so was given a top sports physio who gave me specific exercises to do to build the muscles in my knees, these were still forming because i was so young so the exercises may not be suitable for a fully developed body.

I still suffer from bad knees from time to time, and a little while without sailing has really changed my knees for the worse because the muscles are shrinking fast.  The 100 will be a real test of my knees in august when it comes!

EDIT- Here is the rooster guide http://www.roostersailing.com/articles/Hiking_Style.html - http://www.roostersailing.com/articles/Hiking_Style.html



-------------


Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 9:47am
"Advice from your GP" - I suspect the average GP has no idea what we put our knees through sailing! A sports physio for advice re supports and exercises to try and help the core problem would be my suggestion. The Rooster advice is good also.

-------------
I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 10:08am
Aren't there some weird exercise you can do that strengthen the muscles that support the knee joint? Not the usual upper/lower leg exercises.


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 11:13am

My GP sails a laser at our club so he knew exactly what the problem was, he also suggested I took up trapezing

My knee exercises included stuff like sitting on a chair and holding your legs out in front of you without support. it is important to sit bolt upright when doing this or it is pointless. When i was in oppies i could do this for ages but just trying now I am really stuggling to straighten them at all  Most of my knee problems turned out to be caused by flexibility, I had one exercise which was like the one above but you sat on a dining room chair, with another one you had your feet on, and slowly straighten your legs together with a straight back.  I guess that helps build up the flexibility for the leg lift to work at building muscles.

The final exercise was also flexibility based.  it was a simple stretch where you lie flat on your front on the floor. then get someone to support your knee against the floor with one hand and bend your lower leg with gentle pressure and hold it for 10 seconds at a point where you are comfortable but can feel it pulling. 

It was amazing how unflexible i was back then but now i am pretty good. I think I got these exercises because I was also suffering from "growing pains" (yes they do exist) where your bones grow faster than your muscles which can be incredibly painful and magnifies the pain of the knee being seperated by the oppie hiking style.



-------------


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 12:06pm

The key thing here is good technique and this is boat specific so speak to a coach for your class of boat.

I also took the P out of people who wore hikers for years (until I splashed out on some decent ones),now I realise just how key they are.

The bottom line is that if you cannot hold the correct hiking position for the boat you sail you need to strengthen the muscles. If you go to a gym and their PTs are any good they can work out what will work by you demonstrating the position.

I did this and it made a huge difference, the flip side is that you perform better because you are not getting as tired. That is providing you go to a gym.

I do recall that Jon Emmett (who floats around here on occasion) and others recommend pilates/yoga. As I do some yoga positions in my program i can vouch for how effective this could be.



-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 1:36pm

Originally posted by turnturtle

Sorry Sloppy, I have the Spinlocks- they're great pads, they even come with
d3o in them now, but for sports support... n'ah, you'll 'kneed' something
designed for the job.

Shame, they look good, it'll be a while before im back into the swing of things anyway so ive got plenty of time to shop around for the ideal support.  The best ones always discintergrate after a bit of abuse on the boat.

Originally posted by A Seabadger

"Advice from your GP" - I suspect the average GP has no idea what we put our knees through sailing! A sports physio for advice re supports and exercises to try and help the core problem would be my suggestion. The Rooster advice is good also.

My GP gave good advice, although not a sailor himself, had an understanding (unsuprisingly) of what a body is capable of, and i was refered to a specialist for further treatment. After all its a medical problem and so best to see a doctor alongside others.



-------------
https://www.facebook.com/OJSPhoto" rel="nofollow - OJSPhotography
https://www.youtube.com/ojsphotography/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 868
Marconi SC


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 26 May 10 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by slop_idol

Originally posted by turnturtle

Sorry Sloppy, I have the Spinlocks- they're great pads, they even come with
d3o in them now, but for sports support... n'ah, you'll 'kneed' something
designed for the job.

Shame, they look good, it'll be a while before im back into the swing of things anyway so ive got plenty of time to shop around for the ideal support.  The best ones always discintergrate after a bit of abuse on the boat.

Originally posted by A Seabadger

"Advice from your GP" - I suspect the average GP has no idea what we put our knees through sailing! A sports physio for advice re supports and exercises to try and help the core problem would be my suggestion. The Rooster advice is good also.

My GP gave good advice, although not a sailor himself, had an understanding (unsuprisingly) of what a body is capable of, and i was refered to a specialist for further treatment. After all its a medical problem and so best to see a doctor alongside others.

These type of "supports" are essentially comfort blankets; they provide very little support.

Some may provide a little support for the patella; they DO provide extra warmth and make YOU feel like you have more support for the knee; I sometimes use them to add WARMTH to my knees as they are a bit tired out; but if you get to the point where they are hurting after exercise it is time to consult an expert.

 



-------------
F16 GBR 553 - Hungry Monster - For sale
Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
I also talk sport http://www.letshaveachat.com - here


Posted By: laser47
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 12:03pm
My physio when I did my knee thought that supports did more harm than good because you become over-reliant on them and over time they cause the muscles and ligaments to weaken

Better to sort out your hiking style and get regular off boat excercise to sort things out  even if it's just a bit of swimming or cycling and a few wall sits with ball.




-------------


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 27 May 10 at 11:12pm

Agreed, but wearing one can just get you through an important series.

My physio always told me that pain in my knee was a sign to stop. Pain in a muscle is usually not so bad because that is natural if you are building muscle.  Any form of sharp pain caused by poor support from your muscles is a sign to stop doing what you are doing.  A support can prevent this. Also keeping your body warm is never a bad thing when suffering from this sort of pain and a support will help this.

I would say that a support should still be worn while sailing for a few months but gym work outside of that without a support should be focused on the important muscle groups in your legs. Thats what I did and it worked for me. 

Obviously hiking style is the most important thing to consider. When I had knee trouble I tightened my toe straps and made sure i used the most efficient hiking style i could. My best lesson came from my old optimist squad coach who was the first person to teach me to hike with your legs in the lulls and your body in the gusts.  Basically meaning you should be aiming to lean back as far as possible all the time but keep your legs as far into the boat as possible while still keeping fully powered up. This seriously reduces the amount of time your leg muscles are doing all the work and allows you to sail for hours and hours without nearly as much pain. So bums in and heads back is the technique to master in marginal hiking conditions. Keeping a good straight back posture is important. (unlike the ones demonstrated by me in a few recent editions of the magazine in my laser!)



-------------


Posted By: djdhi
Date Posted: 28 May 10 at 11:36am

Hi,

Gentle cycling on an exercise bike with a low saddle and light resistance is what I would recommend. That's what I do.  I started drawing  my old age pension many moons ago, Also swimming is good. My knees are still pretty painfree but I find my shoulders and neck are getting a bit stiff.

Good luck with your training programme.

djdhi

 



Posted By: jimsaysso
Date Posted: 22 Feb 16 at 2:19pm
Hey I was reading this thread as I have been having some real pain in my knees whilst I sail too and someone mentioned that "hikers" were good.. what are hikers? did they mean like something sort of support hikers wear?
I was actually thinking about giving this cheap knee support a go

http://nuovahealth.co.uk/shop/open-patella-knee-support-brace/" rel="nofollow - http://nuovahealth.co.uk/shop/open-patella-knee-support-brace/

Has anyone tried those ones before? If so what do you make of them?


-------------
yo yo!


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 22 Feb 16 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by jimsaysso

Hey I was reading this thread as I have been having some real pain in my knees whilst I sail too and someone mentioned that "hikers" were good.. what are hikers? did they mean like something sort of support hikers wear?



Usually your hiking style or posture is what causes knee pain (was certainly true for me). A good set of hikers can hep reduce the fatigue in your leg muscles enabling you to maintain the correct posture (i.e. no pressure through the knee) which sorts the knee issues.

Certainly worked for me anyway. Then I switched classes to a more ergonomic boat which made an even bigger difference.


-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 16 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by jimsaysso

Hey I was reading this thread as I have been having some real pain in my knees whilst I sail too and someone mentioned that "hikers" were good.. what are hikers? did they mean like something sort of support hikers wear?



Hikers are like a cross between lederhosen and bondage equipment used by some of the more perverse dinghyists. Nobody with any style goes near them.
For knee support look to downhill mountain bike equipment and or ski-ing knee braces, nothing made by the dinghy business is effective because they are all so tight they won't pay what is required to do the job properly so nobody can afford to market it from a lame dinghy label.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: GeorginaSmith
Date Posted: 14 Oct 17 at 3:44pm
Very informative thread.


Posted By: sor1n3l
Date Posted: 18 Jul 18 at 8:06am
Those knee pads JimSaysso is talking about they seem to be used for medical purpose after you get the pain :). The ones from Spinlock are used as an accessory of your dinghy kit. Found them here also 1 cheaper than Force 4
https://www.foxschandlery.com/sailing-accessories/knee-pads" rel="nofollow - https://www.foxschandlery.com/sailing-accessories/knee-pads


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 18 Jul 18 at 9:22am
A 'knee support/brace' does a completely different job to a 'knee pad'. The former is to keep your knee/kneecap in alignment during exercise/activity the latter to allow you to kneel down on a hard surface without damage. So knee pads for shallow cockpit boats which require kneeling to tack and downwind, braces for supporting your knees when hiking. I had a dodgy knee earlier this year which recovered on it's own in time. I tried a knee brace and it helped while walking but not so much when sailing. If it's a meniscus injury you absolutely must use a knee peace with a patella hole or you risk further discomfort or damage (this from a very expensive private knee consultant).

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 18 Jul 18 at 9:18pm
Every knee injury is different but if I have knee pain I find stretching the calves, hamstrings and quadriceps several times a week helps.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 19 Jul 18 at 8:31am
I sold the boat that was causing me to collapse when I got out of it due to knee pain, and bought one that suits my build and level of unfitness better. With yoga as well, my knees have recovered remarkably well.

That, and I tend to perch these days.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com