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WANTED: Hints and tips for yacht sailing

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: Keelboat news and development
Forum Discription: All the latest developments for yachts
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6604
Printed Date: 25 Sep 21 at 6:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: WANTED: Hints and tips for yacht sailing
Posted By: timnoyce
Subject: WANTED: Hints and tips for yacht sailing
Date Posted: 07 Apr 10 at 1:00pm
Hi chaps, got a phone call at the weekend from a chap looking for someone to run the bow on his UFO 27 this summer. I jumped at the chance so as of this evening I will be sailing from the Royal Dartmouth YC for the club racing. Any tips as to what I should or shouldn't be doing on the bow of a 27 foot yacht? I guess I will be doing kite pole and jib hoisting etc? Need some hints and tips as am used to crewing dinghies!

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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb



Replies:
Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 07 Apr 10 at 5:37pm
Dartmouth - very nice. I'm jealous. First tip - do Dartmouth Week in the
summer - its great fun.

Bow is great fun, but can be very wet.

Generally your responsibilities will include sighting lay lines for the start
and calling the line to get your helm right on the button for the gun
(bring a watch).

During the race you'll manage the hoisting and drop of the jib and
spinny. You'll work with the mast person or pit to get it hoisted/
dropped smoothly.

The real make or break is getting the kite set up before the windward
mark. Never sailed this boat, but you'll either be launching from a bag
clipped to the toe rails (put out just before the windward mark) or from a
hatch. The best tip I can offer is get the sheets sorted at the dock and
know how they run. Then check, double check and check once more to
ensure that they are all clear of everything when you hoist that kite.
There is nothing worse than hoisting and finding a tangle around the jib
sheets!

You'll also have to pack the kite and check it before each hoist. I'd
recommend re-checking as you motor out and take any tangles on the
chin!

The second major task is gybing the kite. Good communication with the
trimmer and pit is essential otherwise they'll be loading up sheets when
you need slack, making you struggle .

Is it a dip pole or end to end? I'd guess on this size boat it would be end
to end type, so its just like a large dinghy. Just be sure that whoever is in
the cockpit releases tension and floats the kite out and loosens off the
pole downhaul line!! That will make life easier!

Other than that, i'd suggest some grippy shoes - dinghy boots are best.

Good luck! Lets hear the stories, I miss yacht racing

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Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 08 Apr 10 at 8:42am
Brilliant stuff ASok, thanks.

Went out last night and it all went well. As it was only the practise race it wasn't taken too seriously so we didn't do any spinnaker action. In general though it all went smoothly. Taking a pen next week to mark up the jib tracks as it is a nightmare setting them the same on each side quickly as they didn't have any predetermined marks for the genoa.

Next week we're going to have a really good bow man on board so he can show me how I should be doing things. Something about twin sheets on the kite?! There is only one pole and it looked to be end to end. Funnily was much the same size as the pole on my old cherub... just a lot fatter!

Got beaten by a Squib over the water which was a little upsetting, need to check the results and see how we fared! Royal Dart is an excellent club, amazing views out the bar and we got door to door delivery out to the yacht from the committee boat! Nice.


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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: CurlyBen
Date Posted: 08 Apr 10 at 10:47am
It's probably not twin sheets on the kite but a separate guy and sheet on each clew, so the sheet and guy can be lead to different positions. It's not a big complication, you just have to make sure you clip the pole onto the guy rather than the lazy sheet.


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RS800 GBR848
Weston SC


Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 08 Apr 10 at 12:44pm
Glad you enjoyed it The Noyce... Few quick tips to add to whats been said:

Marking and recording settings as you say is essential on a boat like that - the difference in perfect trim and dropping out the back may only be 0.1 of a knot and 1 degree of height - its a whole new side of sailing to get your head around compared to the cherub.

GET OFF THE BOW - no really. Its a small boat and the driver will feel every second you spend at the pointy end and boatspeed will suffer - plan things out so you can do as much as possible back by the mast.

Good bowmen are seen continously springing back and forth, checking things and fixing problems as soon as they occur. Great bowmen are sitting on the rail thinking about the owners daughter and wondering whether to start on beer or rum later - Its a walk in the park if you plan ahead and know whats going on.

Im curious about the twin sheets and guys on a 27ft end-to-end boat. More weight, more things to go wrong and more complication. - The only disadvantage to single sheets on a boat that size is that a more weedy individual than yourself may have trouble getting the pole onto the mast when reach-to-reach gybing in the heavy stuff. If thats the case you really just need to make sure the trimmers are rotating the kite properly and unloading it when you go to remake the pole.




Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 08 Apr 10 at 1:53pm

Glad you had a good time.  Dartmouth is gorgeous and a great place to sail.

Originally posted by Isis


Im curious about the twin sheets and guys on a 27ft end-to-end boat.


Me too. 

Extra weight, extra mess at the front and back of the boat and something that could go wrong if you clip anything on wrong.  Have a look at other symetrical sports boats.  Their set up will show that one set of sheets like a dinghy should suffice.  Just get your helm to run deep on a reach to reach gybe otherwise the crew will be cranking that guy on before you've had chance to clip the pole onto the mast!



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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 08 Apr 10 at 8:28pm
Twin sheets and guys on a UFO 27 is overkill. You should easily be able to end for end the pole in the gybes using single sheets and guys. Typically up to 30-32ft you can get away with end for ending the pole. During the gybes you need to be careful but the trimmers should even in the strongest of winds be able to keep it flying without the pole, this buys you plenty of time to sort your stuff out and clip the pole back on once the spinnakers gybed.

Have fun


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 12 May 10 at 12:20pm
remember spinnakers will fly DDW without a pole so just take it off as early as you can if it is getting hairy: ie as soon as the boat is DDW. Ask for the barber haulers ( aka twinning lines) to be pulled down on each side.

Take the new guy ("lazy" in your case) in your hand before you take the pole off the mast.

End to end is much better, but it is good practive with lazy sheets for bigger boats and safer in big winds. I have end to ended a 37ft boat in force 7 so it can be done.

Practice 20 gybes on the way out to the course with a following wind!




Posted By: Cmac
Date Posted: 07 Jun 10 at 9:10pm

Interested in you doing the bow on the UFO 27. I have a UFO 27 and need a bowman! If you fancy a trip to Scotland drop me a line!! My crew are mostly retired and don't like going anywhere near the pointy end.

One benefit of sheets and guys on the kite is that on a close reach the guy doesn't bend the crap out of the stanchions.

My boat came from the exmouth area originally - home completed by a chap from Plymouth area.  She has a twin spreader very tall rig and a lead bulb on the keel so we carry a huge kite.  She is very quick upwind in light to moderate air.

Interested to hear how you fare against other boats in your class. 

All the best

Colin



Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 08 Jun 10 at 6:42am
Originally posted by Cmac

One benefit of sheets and guys on the kite is that on a close reach the guy doesn't bend the crap out of the stanchions.


Have you tried tweakers i.e. a light floating block on the sheet taken to a block on the rail at max beam and led back to a cleat in the cockpit? On a reach you then use the tweaker to pull the guy down to deck level at max beam, which avoids it bending the stanchion. That would be the normal way to deal with this problem on a boat this size. Dual sheet/guys should not be necessary on a 27 footer.


Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 08 Jun 10 at 9:01am
We have completed the first Wednesday evening series and we were the first Yacht over the series in a mix of conditions, mainly lighter airs though. On our start there are some dayboats but they seem to do better on handicap than us in most winds.

On our first outing we dipped the pole and used twin sheets but I found it a bit of a pain. I am sure it would be quick if I knew the best way of doing it, but for now it is quicker for me to end to end using single sheets.

It is really enjoyable though, really nice chaps at Dartmouth and the banter in the bar after racing is always good. We have a relatively new team of different ages and experiences but we seem to do ok. I normally find myself on bow for the hoists and drops and then back in the cockpit to trim the kite during the legs, but we are certainly getting faster!

Colin... unfortunately it is a bit of a drive for me to get to Scotland from South Devon. Where are you based? We have got our Cherub Nationals at Largo Bay in August and I will be there for 2 weeks. So if you are anywhere near there I'd be happy to meet up for a sail / beer.


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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: Cmac
Date Posted: 08 Jun 10 at 1:49pm

I'm based on the west coast at Gourock. That's about 45 mins from Glasgow.  Not sure where Largo Bay is - Are you sure it's not Largs? They have a very active dinghy club. if it is Largs then you are just half an hour from Gourock. You'd be welcome to come and sail with us if it fits your schedule.

Re the previous post - yep the tweakers idea is a good one. I'll need to try it. It's just that the Scot in me doesn't part with money easily so tweakers would be extra expense - that would whittle down my whisky fund!

Good to hear your UFO has won the series. There's life in the old girl yet! I am definately not going to win our series. We got off to a poor start to the season - 4th/7th/4th/ 7th/2nd. So we are out again tonight and need a first to add to the results.

All the best for now.

CM



Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 08 Jun 10 at 2:11pm
Cheers, It's definitely Largo Bay not Largs. It is on the north shore of the Forth, kind of opposite Edinburgh. It is excellent. Just checked the map and it seems a bit of a drive, nice idea in principle though.

The boat seems very quick, I really like the design. Not really sure of the history of the boat I sail, it has a few creature comforts but certainly not to the same level as some of the boats we sail against!

We don't have tweakers but I know what you mean about the guard rails (not sure of their official name) do seem to take a bit of a beating.


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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 09 Jun 10 at 6:23am
Originally posted by Cmac

Re the previous post - yep the tweakers idea is a good one. I'll need to try it. It's just that the Scot in me doesn't part with money easily so tweakers would be extra expense - that would whittle down my whisky fund!


Cheaper than line and hardware for separate guys and cheaper than replacing a broken stanchion! Also, tweaker half on for the sheet when running in a blow is a top tip to reduce the rock and roll factor.


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 10:10pm
more commonly known as barber haulers or sometimes sheet policemen.

Double sheets/guys is over kill on a UFO27. End to end is better and do-able without barber haulers but better with them : the new guy is easer to grad while the spinnakers shoulders are kept stable.

Is East Coast Sailing Week still on the go?

Doing a competent crew course through your club or at the National Sailing Centre at Largs is a good way to base line all your skill set and meet new friends and potential crew members!

Have a good season!


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 12 Jun 10 at 5:10am
Originally posted by damp_freddie

more commonly known as barber haulers


Nope. Barber haulers move sheets inboard or outboard. Tweakers move the spinnaker guy downwards.

or sometimes sheet policemen.


If you say so. I've been sailing 25 years and never heard that one before. I have occasionally heard tweakers referred to as "spinnaker stranglers".


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 14 Jun 10 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by damp_freddie

more commonly known as barber haulers


Nope. Barber haulers move sheets inboard or outboard. Tweakers move the spinnaker guy downwards.

or sometimes sheet policemen.


If you say so. I've been sailing 25 years and never heard that one before. I have occasionally heard tweakers referred to as "spinnaker stranglers".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_rigging -
Barber Haulers : very commonly used for spinnaker "tweaking lines" , also on jibs of course.

Hits: spinnaker AND barber haulers 2 690. barber haulers AND jib 807




Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 15 Jun 10 at 5:04am
If you want to use Wikipedia as an authority:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barber_hauler&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Barber hauler page does not exist - Barber haulers , which adjust the spinnaker/jib sheeting angle by pulling the sheet/sail inboard.

We are discussing pulling downwards, not inboard, which was my point.

Wikipedia is evidently wrong in this definition anyway, since barber-haulers also move sheet outboard.

I have shocking news. Unfortunately not everything you read on the web is true.


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 18 Jun 10 at 8:58am
Unless a spinnaker is very small, the hauler will change the sheeting angel downwards and draw the centre line angle inwards: on a jib actually it usually does the same if it is at all lower than the clew- just more sideways.  Wiki is just a link and not a bad source since Barber invented them for inhauling.

Some people do call them barber haulers, some tweaker/ing lines and some twinning lines. One boat I have sailed on called them policemen.

Anyway, I reckon  since the writer is sailing from Largs that they would do very well to get on the competent crew RYA course at the national there : good training and no doubt meet a couple of new friends and prospective crew.

There after they can call the spinnaker sheet angle control lines what ever the instructor says




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