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Topper sail

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=532
Printed Date: 14 Dec 18 at 4:32pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Topper sail
Posted By: Black no sugar
Subject: Topper sail
Date Posted: 07 Mar 05 at 11:21pm

As you are probably aware, there is a new Topper sail coming our way. It's been discussed at length on the ITCA discussion board and sounds quite interesting.
All that I learnt later...

Now, here is my story: I went to the Dinghy Show on Saturday and ended up talking to a very nice lady on the Topper class association stand. I mentioned to her I was trying to find a good second-hand sail "in the region of 150" (sic). She approved and told me to keep an eye on the Topper website discussion board. Then she talked about the small 4.2 sail coming up, the pros and cons of the centremain sheet system, tons of things...

At NO moment did she mention the new sail coming up. I got home and found an email from one of my friends, telling me to get hold of a sail at the show, as there were some discounts going on!

  

I know it's difficult to keep in touch with all the new developments but, please! Seeing the price of new sails drop from 290 to 165 isn't a minor detail. I only wish this lady had known at the time. I would have saved a few pennies...  



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC



Replies:
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 12:17am

You have now been officially caught out - that is a post about sailing...(and shopping too, but mainly sailing)



Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 7:33am
oh how annoying i reslly hate it when people stith you up like that

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byte me!- GBR 814


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 8:08am
Originally posted by Blobby

You have now been officially caught out - that is a post about sailing...(and shopping too, but mainly sailing)

 I'll try not to do it again, promise... Shopping is my only redeeming excuse



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 8:12am
last 1 in the eve 1st in the morning again bns - hw do u do it!?

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byte me!- GBR 814


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 9:31am

BNS

What are the proo's and cons of the centre main system because im thinking of converting mine 2 centre main with my birthday oney but soeone said the masts snap alot and the boom bends!

Also Harry can help me out on this one !



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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 9:57am

Well, I am certainly not the best person to ask, but I've heard that it puts a lot of pressure on the boom. Thing is, the boom wasn't designed for centremain in the first place.

It also takes a little time to get used to it. If you've been sailing other dinghies, like Lasers, it shouldn't be a problem. You will need a longer tiller extension as well as the kit. Blocks are expensive, but the rest is OK.

It doesn't seem to make much difference in the performance, really. The main advantage is the posture. Centremain gets you to sit in a better position (especially for younger people) and you dont get a bad back.

More and more youngsters are converting their boats at our club. It's not a bad idea to do it, if you're planning to sail another class. As for me, my growing days are over a long time ago and I doubt I'll ever sail anything else. So I keep the old system for the moment. I only need to learn how to sail it properly now! 



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 9:58am
Lol o right ok thanks

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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 10:16am
That's 2 posts about sailing now - getting more interested?

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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 10:34am
lol  i i have my sailing book by m side i can sound like i know what im talking about.  make me feel real clever

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byte me!- GBR 814


Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 12:48pm
you sado!!! 

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International 14 1503


Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 5:16pm
yeah, so true

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byte me!- GBR 814


Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 5:20pm
Lolyeah have to agree, but who cares it makes u sound clever....


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Wave Rider

BNS

What are the proo's and cons of the centre main system because im thinking of converting mine 2 centre main with my birthday oney but soeone said the masts snap alot and the boom bends!

Also Harry can help me out on this one !

I've got c/m, and it is alot better than aft main.

It doesn't take long to get usd to, and you prob. already have the generall c/m technique from the fireball. There is no difference in performance, but it is alot easier to use in heavy airs and chop- you don't have to do that crappy twisting chop technique that we had to using a/m.

The boom bends, but that due to kicker, there isn't much more stress on theboom the before.

Check all spars before sailing, esp. arounfd the rivets for hairline cracks that will lead to snapping (what id didin't do when mine snapped).

You might find it frustrating at first but stick with it. Btw almost every sailor has it in the fleet.



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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 5:52pm

gutted bns! The new sail will last longer as it has more durable cloth and a better cut (apparently) as well!



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Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 7:29pm
Whats this about a smaller Topper sail.  After the dinghy show Daisy is really keen to start sailing.  But she is a bit of a titch. Does it use the same rig.  What is the recommended weight for the helm.? I know she should really get an Optimist but she likes the look of the Topper.

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Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 7:55pm
i think o saw it there wasit the topper sail with about a foot of mast with no cloth on it?

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International 14 1503


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 8:15pm

Yeah thats right it has a sleeve at the top of the mast without any sail on it.

 

Thanks Harry yeah i have the centre main technique and i get peeved off with turning to aviod chop you get a sore back after a few races in it !

 

Ok i guess a bit more saving and i will change !



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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Mar 05 at 11:44pm

BWD, that was the new 4.2 sail, designed for little ones. I'm planning to buy a sail for Elodie (when I'm rich...). In the meantime, Daisy is more than welcome to sail 2 up with Elodie on my Topper in light winds.. I'm sure other people would take her out too... Ask Ben or Emma, they're very helpful.

As for the little sail, I think it's a very good idea, as it allows younger people to start sailing. In our club, we're trying to attract younger people (from the age of 8). So far, there were safety issues re. sailing at sea, but we're trying to get support teams together, to make the experience safe.... and fun!



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 8:28am
yer go for it but cant you reef the orginal sail anyway?

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International 14 1503


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 8:31am
You can, but it's not the same, is it?

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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 9:15am
spose so can you still reef it?

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International 14 1503


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 5:15pm

Yes you can still reef the old sail, but this means you acn't adjust the controlls as effefectively- to de-power further, so a 4.2 sail works better in that respecct. Also reefing wrecks the crispness of your sail alot faster, so that is another advantage of the 4.2 sail.

However the one sail per event rule is still enforce as usual, so for example at a week long regatta likethe nats, you can't sail with the 4.2 sail in a breeze and the full size sail in heavy airs. But I think this rule is necessary.



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Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 5:31pm
yer cos all the rich kids will have both sails and every one else will be stuck with the normal one!

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International 14 1503


Posted By: hydrographer20
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 5:35pm
oh yer thats true will make finance a big issue but surely thats a problem anyway cause rich ppl will be abe to afford the top of the range boat anyway

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byte me!- GBR 814


Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 5:41pm
you could always sell the big issue

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International 14 1503


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 10:47pm
The new sails arent THAT expensive (well, for a sail...) The full sail goes for 165 and the wee one is at 125 ( I think....) Not cheap, but affordable still...

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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 09 Mar 05 at 11:22pm
Yeh but stil having to have both of them is more than having one of them.

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http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 12:00am
I'm going for the full sail first, then I'll see if we can pool the family resources to get the 4.2 as a present for our daughter (yeah, she'd like that!)

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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 6:28am

I keep telly the missus my boys would love a Cherub for their birthday present, summer holiday, christmas present and pocket money for the next twenty years

 

 

she still doesn't believe me!



Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 9:15am

The topper class association are allowing another block to be added to the downhaul (cunningham) to make the purchase 6:1 I can see that it would depower the bigger sail a lot but if you pull it on too hard on the smaller sail with the sleeve at the top i think this might break the top of the sail and the mast shoot right up through the sewn sleeve at the top?????

 

Expensive mistake



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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 3:25pm
yeah just make sure you have a reinforced top of the sail.

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http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 7:58pm
I think your right waverider, but the little squirts (i mean vertically chalanged) who will use the 4.2 won't be ablw to pull it on that much, even with the 6:1 purchase.

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Posted By: KnightMare
Date Posted: 10 Mar 05 at 8:18pm
Lol amusing.

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http://theramblingsofmyinnergeek.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 9:49am
Yeah true !

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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: sailor.jon
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 9:51am

using the 6:1 down haul could in theory rip the tack of your sail, (the old sails)

but i think the new topper sail, has reenforced materials there to prevent this from happening

 



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Jon
Vortex 1169
http://www.yorkshiredales.sc/ - Yorkshire Dales Sailing Club


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:00am

I've ordered a new sail from Sailing Solutions and it should be delivered in April sometime. Well in time for me to try it out when the weather gets a little warmer (I'm a wimp )

I don't think I'll get a new downhaul just yet, although mine is rather basic. However, a new kicker could make a difference, I think.

Can't wait, now!  I'll let you know how many times I've capsized in the first half-hour...



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 5:19pm

I'll get a new sail for the nats. but i'll prob. stick with my current race one untill after the inlands and first 3 nationwides. Btw are you going to Rutland nationwide in a couple of weeks waverider?



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Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:23pm
Yeah i'll definately be there........i've just payed my TICA membership ............waiting for my championship numbers to come, no luck yet tho, do they come with instructions on where exactly to put them cos i had them on my old sail and arent sure where they go really !

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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 11 Mar 05 at 10:24pm

Harry i havent looked yet but for the nat's in Larg's is it going to be hard to find accomodation cos i am persueding my parents that they want to drive me up ther !



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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Bennett
Date Posted: 14 Mar 05 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by Wave Rider

Harry i havent looked yet but for the nat's in Larg's is it going to be hard to find accomodation cos i am persueding my parents that they want to drive me up ther !

I would get your accomodation sorted, Im going up there for the youths and its been pretty much full booked for a while.

On the centremain I was totally against the idea but I changed neways cos its faster in light winds plus in my opinion. Unless your block to block upwind (which is easier with centremain sheeting angle) then there should be no change in spar shape or whatever. You shouldnt be breaking spars neways! I went 3 years of racing toppers without breaking a mast section or boom;.

The 6:1 Downhaul isnt need either, Ive pulled mine so tight before in a force 6/7 that I thought the rope was going to break, any more purchase and I would n't have oulled on any extra. If you can't pull it on fully with 3:1 you just need to improve your technique.



Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 14 Mar 05 at 10:16pm
Ok yeah i wasnt thinking of getting the extra purchas, just saying it will help weaker sailors

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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: moomin
Date Posted: 15 Mar 05 at 3:40pm

Sorry to go back to the small topper sail bit of this thread it takes me abit of time to keep up. 

I had a small topper sail about 10 years ago, fed up with the reefs blowing out in a big wind which is when you want a smaller sail, a badly reefed sail is even more difficult to control than a full sail.  I found  an old sail and took it to my local freindly sail loft and got them to cut it down to the size of 2 reefs.  Leave the luff tube at full length so no new spars are required, reinforce the  new head, leach and clew, small topper sail for a fraction of the cost of a new topper one!  I know it won't satisfy the topper class assoc for opens etc but will do for your sprogs learning at the local club. You may even find an old topper sail abandoned in the club boat house or from your friendly squad member who has just bought a new sail, there seem to be a few of them on this forum.



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Moomin


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 15 Mar 05 at 5:48pm

Interesting... I've ordered a new sail for me anyway, I might get the old one trimmed to size.

Many thanks for the advice



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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 15 Mar 05 at 5:50pm
Lol i have a new sail but i use my old one for training so im afraid the friendly squaddy theory might not work !

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           -[Franko]-
Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club
           RS600 933


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 16 Mar 05 at 8:23pm

Or you could buy a full size training sail for 100 quid, not class legal, but my current one has lasted longer than 2 race sails (both race sails having far less use!)

However not good for racing not class legal, and they have stiff thick cloth, and are very full at the top, hard to depower in heavy air.

(this is the ss training one not the rooster replica)

Sorry about that random i know!



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