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AC in Cats

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: America's Cup
Forum Discription: Your thoughts on challenges to win the 'Auld Mug'
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3613
Printed Date: 29 Mar 24 at 1:50pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: AC in Cats
Posted By: Norbert
Subject: AC in Cats
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 10:03am
First the ISAF Olympic cat cockup and now i read that since the Swiss are trying to cockup the AC there is talk of an AC in catamarans in 2009.

What's the story behind this, what sort of cats would they be using, would it still be held in Valencia, Dubai, on a swiss lake?



Replies:
Posted By: FreshScum
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 11:42am
The GGYC (Oracle) have brought a court action in New York, arguing that CNEV (Desafio) is not a valid challenge and hence cannot be the Challeger of Record(CoR).

Oracle have also challenged the SNG (Alinghi), and therefore argue that they should be the CoR. If the judge finds in favour of them, they may become the CoR. They then have to agree to the format with Alinghi.
If they can't agree then the Deed of Gift of the Cup governs the rules for the challenge. Oracle have said in their challenge that their boat would be 90feet length, 90 feet breadth, and possibly 4 feet depth? Otherwise the design would be free.
This would make it a tri.

Alinghi get to decide the venue and the time of day, but the date is set by the DoG.

The judge will make his decision soon.

www.sailinganarchy.com has a lot of info in the forums. Also a lot of rubbish spouted. Probably best to use the search, rather than ask a question like this, as it has been answered before and most of your answers would be abuse from the trolls.


Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 4:56pm

The long and short of it:

- Billionaires have an argument

- Sailing losing out

- Cup goes to court (again)

Most likely outcome (at the moment)

- GGYC / Oracle BMW win court case, try to force match race in 110 foot cats in San Francisco (just Oracle BMW and Alinghi) in 2008

- America's Cup is postponed to 2011



Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Mark Jardine

- GGYC / Oracle BMW win court case, try to force match race in 110 foot cats in San Francisco (just Oracle BMW and Alinghi) in 2008



And sorry Mark, what is the problem with an AC fought out with 110 cats?

Hmmmm, choice, slow lead mines or super large super fast versions of the Extreme 40?

Hmmmm!


Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 5:55pm
Did I say it was a problem?


Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Mark Jardine

Did I say it was a problem?

touche!


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 20 Nov 07 at 6:04pm
I can't blame the GGYC (Larry) but then again the yanks did load the dice for over 100 years so I don't see they have much to beef about ...

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Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 6:24am

Originally posted by Norbert

 what is the problem with an AC fought out with 110 cats?

The fact that the uncertainty and delays associated with  the court case appear to be driving away sponsors in droves. So just when it looked like we finally had an adequately funded British challenge, the squabble between two billionaires has quite possibly killed it.

There is a large amount on this elsewhere if you want to read about it.



Posted By: chrisarnell1
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 12:37pm

I think its a real shame that the Americas Cup - seen as the "pinnacle" of yachting, is managed in this way. Its all about money, business & ego. Just occasionally we get a decent sailing competition.

It does no credit to our sport nor to the image of sailing in general.

Personally I think it would be best if all the sponsors collectively washed their hands of the cup & we got back to regarding the Olympics as the peak of our sport, putting money back into grass roots and making sailing more accessible.

(Not that we're doing a better job selecting our Olympic events, of course)



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RS300 393
OK GBR 21


Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 1:47pm
Let the billionaires kill the cup for the time being and then in a few years time someone come back with a more realistic proposition that 10, 15, 20 teams can compete in.

I remember watching a few of the windy races on sky this may/june and thinking what would this be like if those Volvo Extreme 40 cats were sailing/racing in those conditions.

Have Extreme 60 catamarans, or rules to that effect, and the spectacle would be immensely more satisfying and more importantly much more accessible.


Posted By: FreshScum
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 2:48pm

90 foot tris.

If the 90foot width in the GGYC Challenge is a required dimension not a maximum possible. No way current tech could support a single central mast on a cat, need the hull support of a tri to get sufficient rig tension. Obviously once AC money is applied the tech may develop.

 And the Defender gets to pick the venue, so its unlikely to be San Francisco.



Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 2:51pm
Wouldn't be many close cover tacking duels in 90ft tri's...  Imagine the dial-up!

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http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK


Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 3:00pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Wouldn't be many close cover tacking duels in 90ft tri's...  Imagine the dial-up!

Imagine locking the hulls - Game over



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When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780



Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Contender 541

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Wouldn't be many close cover tacking duels in 90ft tri's...  Imagine the dial-up!

Imagine locking the hulls - Game over

Imagine pitch poling !!!!



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 3:45pm

I see that some more syndicates are supposed to be signing up. Thing is there might not be anything to sign up for.

I occurs to me that GGYC & Oracle have challenged twice and failed to make the Cup match. If they can force a match with out a challenger serise at least they know they'll get a chance to sail against Alinghi.

90ft milti hulls would be an fantastic sight. Wonder if the rules allow foils, haven't time to check now

 



Posted By: Adds
Date Posted: 21 Nov 07 at 4:11pm
C Class's were slower with foils.

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Cheers Dudes


Posted By: Laser 173312
Date Posted: 23 Nov 07 at 9:07am

Look the the thread under dinghy development about cup saliors being available for the olympics.

 




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