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Dinghy Development for the mature sailor

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=340
Printed Date: 03 Dec 20 at 8:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Dinghy Development for the mature sailor
Posted By: Dago
Subject: Dinghy Development for the mature sailor
Date Posted: 17 Dec 04 at 8:59pm

There are plenty of classes around for those young, trendy 20-40 somethings, but what about us of a more mature status total crew weights 180+ kgs range, looking for a single trapeze 2-man boat for the not so athletic to find exciting to race.

Are there any plans forthcoming, if not why not! 

All over the Country I know that the same conversation takes place in every Club, where the modern twin trapese classes are raced. there is a great number of like minded sailors out there who are just waiting for the boat to arrive. 

There are plenty of symmetric spinnaker trapese boats around, but no one yet has developed a more modern assymetric class.

Come on you designers, get cracking!

 

 

 

 

 



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Dago
RS400



Replies:
Posted By: *GM*
Date Posted: 17 Dec 04 at 9:21pm
They're there already.  Those of us that sail them call them catamarans....


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Dec 04 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Dago

There are plenty of symmetric spinnaker trapese boats around, but no one yet has developed a more modern assymetric class.


[


OK its no string but isn't that exactly what the 59er was designed to do? It will happily stuff any single string symettric kite boat you care to name...


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 17 Dec 04 at 9:57pm
Oooooohhhh, I don't know about that Jim. The 59ers racing in Sydney (there's only a couple, including Frank's) are similar in pace to the B14s and 29ers at Woollahra SC, I'm told ( by one of the top B14ers, confirmed by other reports). So an FD or 505 or (here) Aust. Sharpie would be a major problem for a 59er.

GM; as a guy who sails monos and cats, can I say it REALLY seems counter-productive when a question re dinghies is answered by saying "sail a cat"?

And how many crewed single-wire assy cats are there anyway???






Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 4:12pm
And of course as weel as the FD and 5o5 there's the Osprey and Javelin. All quick boats that carry weight well and fast.  Check out http://www.fastsail.org - www.fastsail.org for a bit of info.


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 5:08pm

Originally posted by Chris 249


And how many crewed single-wire assy cats are there anyway???


answer lots

the best one has to be the dart 18 or old tornado



Posted By: Dago
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 5:22pm

The point of my original question was to ask why despite many assymetric dinghies around, no one has yet produced a single trapese, 2 man assymetric, that will carry 180 kgs! Yes there is the 59er, also RS400, but they are bothing hiking boats. Yes we have the Laser 4000 as well, but like the Iso, really is better suited to lighter weight crews.

Being an ex FD sailors, I know my crew and I have already sailed the best symmetric dinghy there is, but we have been searching for a suitable boat for the last few years and there ain't anything out there!

I see from the current issue of YandY, that laser are bringing out another boat at the Boat Show, but judging by the picture it looks again to cater for the lighter crews.

There is definately a large market out here to be tapped, so come on what about it!

 



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Dago
RS400


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 6:14pm

I think you dismiss the Laser 4000 too easily.  Both at 90kg is at the top end but the performance equalisation system means you wouldn't be at much disadvantage.  Something you possibly haven't considered is that a modern rig like the 4000's is very adjustable and can develope quite a lot of power even in 8-10Knots.  Its a long time since I sailed a FD but I feel there is more need for the crew to be out on the wire in 10Knots than there is with a Dutchman.  What of course you will find is that everything happens faster in a 4000 so there is a bit more emphasis on doing the right thing, rather than sheer strength. 

What might also influence you is that real light weights do find the 4000 a handfull, the main is particularly heavy at medium wind speeds (not so much when it blows since you then use the kicker), and you need quite a burst of energy to get the kite up.  Finally if you're crew is really butch they can dispense with the 2:1 on the jib sheets.

By the way I've sailed both the Dutchman and the 5o5 and would like to bet that both would be left well behind in a F5 on a broad reach.  Perhaps Y&Y would like to do a comparison?



Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by hurricane

Originally posted by Chris 249


And how many crewed single-wire assy cats are there anyway???


answer lots

the best one has to be the dart 18 or old tornado



Huh? Did someone stick an assy on the Dart 18 and OLD Tornado without telling anyone? I thought they were single wire non-spinnaker boats, not single-wire ASSY boats  which is what the post was all about?




Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 18 Dec 04 at 10:07pm
nice one chris

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Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 19 Dec 04 at 12:12am
sorry thought it was single trapeze spinny boats!!!


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 19 Dec 04 at 11:42am

What's all this about a class for 180 kilos - who wants to sail with the Weight watcher brigade!

Gordon - 120 kilos before Christmas.

PS Why not a boat for two average second row forwards, say 210 beofore hitting the beer: there used to be the Star before the football playing countries voted in a pernicious weight limit!

 



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Gordon


Posted By: Dago
Date Posted: 19 Dec 04 at 5:04pm

When you get to the age of 54 helm & 64 crew, who still want competive racing, who do you turn to !

A sailing  partnership that has last for 20 years, from 505, & FD needs something to evolve into. We have tried a Boss, but the helm isn't agile enough to cross from rack/rack and an Iso which isn't roomy enough for 2 large adults.

Given that we are looking for an assymetric dingy - where do we go from here!!!!

 

 



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Dago
RS400


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 19 Dec 04 at 5:45pm
u could try a B14, perhaps more relaxed than a trapezer, i woulnt know tho, havnt sailed one.

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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 19 Dec 04 at 8:31pm
I'm a 56 year old, my crew about 46 and all up weight before kit of about 165kg.  We love the 4000 but we do go swimming quite often and we are certainly competitive at club level.  A nice thing about the 4000 is that its not as bad as some of the skiffs when the wind drops to practically nothing.  For instance the B14 and the RS800 park up.


Posted By: Doctor Clifford
Date Posted: 20 Dec 04 at 10:23am
Remote Control Lasers

comfy armchair with footstool, heated slippers and a
small table for the pipe-smoking paraphenalia.

Excellent!

-------------
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 20 Dec 04 at 11:05am

Would prefer to sail a Marblehead - another pre-war class! THe new boats are very radical but at you can blame the designer if you aren't winning. However, I'm not to sure about the armchair and pipe bot - having been an judge at many RC events I found that the sailors could get very worked up, so that refereeing became quite a physical job.

With lots of protests needing an immediate hearing RC racing is of course by far the best way to train protest committees.

Every club should have a RC fleet - there would then be no excuse for starting dinghy races in 0.1 knots of wind - more than enough for a Marblehead with a big rig.

Gordon

 

 

 

 



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Gordon


Posted By: No. 5
Date Posted: 21 Dec 04 at 4:13pm

Gordon

As a 105kg 2nd row forward I agree wholeheartedly with your criteria for a boat. There are far too many designs suitable only for skinny weaklings.



Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 21 Dec 04 at 8:28pm

Hi everyone,

I think that it was Uffa Fox who once said "The only thing that weight is any good for is steamrollers".  Unfortunately, in our sport of dinghy racing, I think that he was spot on.  Most of the double handed classes, and particularly the modern ones, seem to cater for crews in the 20 - 24 stones range to be competitive. 

Before I started sailing, in my mid thirties, I had played rugby union from being a child. In that sport very good 'big uns' would always beat very good 'little uns' as the playing field was always the same.  In dinghy racing, I would suggest that the opposite applies and being light is a great asset.  Even when the 'playing field' changes and it is blowing a hooligan, the very good 'little uns' still cope well because of skill, experience and the fact that modern rigs are so controllable.

Even in boats like the 505 where the crew on the wire can be quite heavy, many of the helms are still very light e.g. Ian Pinnell.  No matter how a boat is designed for two 'heavyweight' sailors, there will always be very good 'scrum halves' racing them and at great advantage in lighter winds.

Ian (95kgs./15st.) - Yorkshire Dales S.C.



Posted By: Dago
Date Posted: 21 Dec 04 at 9:09pm

Ian,

You are quite right in what you say, but my initial question was not so much about who is sailing the boat, although with such weight equalisation systems around these days, it's not some much about the weight mix of the combined crews, but more about the range of boats currently available. Without exception, all the modern trapeze assymetrical boats cater for a weight range up to 21/24 stone. Those of us who have had a sailing partnership that has spanned 505 & FD racing and now desire to further the enjoyment of these 'new designs', don't have a boat for which 26ish stone is suitable! We have tried the Boss but this helm at 54 is too long in the tooth to react quickly enough to helming from the wire, with the nimble reactions required. We have also tried the Iso, because our local club had a class of them, but we found it cramped! At 100+ kgs the Laser 4000 is too heavy up & down a shingle beach ( back to the good old days of the FD).

In must be possible surely in this day & age to develop a light weight 'skiff' with single trapese, to fit our needs ( and that of many others, I think).

 

 

 



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Dago
RS400


Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 12:00am

Originally posted by redback

A nice thing about the 4000 is that its not as bad as some of the skiffs when the wind drops to practically nothing.  For instance the B14 and the RS800 park up.

B14's do not "park it" in the light stuff provided you get your weight forward, once the wake is clean they will quite hapilly sail to handicap against other asymetrics.  The even do better than most against symmetrics as the kite has a lot of luff projection and can point significantly lower than things like 400's with their silly poles. 



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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 12:55am

Here are the rules for the new class then:

Length - 5.0m

Beam - 2.2m

Sail Area - 17.5m2 (White Sails)

Assymetric - 25m2

Crew weight - equalised to 185kg

Class Name - ???? but it looks like this...



Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 12:28pm

ok that has to be made on PRO DESKTOP right???? 

oh and i suggest TYPHOON as a good name for the class



Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 1:19pm
i think typhoon dinghy wear has a patent on that, how about ''pipedream'' lol!

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Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 4:02pm
if it has solid wings like a 49er, how about some kind of a bird?
is there a Falcon class?

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Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 4:14pm
it needs to be a furturistic kind of name!!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 4:19pm
`'millenium falcon" lol

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Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 4:24pm

How about fat ba%$*^%ds skiff.   I'd get one! I need one!



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Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 4:29pm
how about this boat is going to be stupidly overpriced but you muggs will still by it because its what you have come to expect!!


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 6:33pm
Me, I think someone's been looking at photos of my projects:-)




Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 6:38pm
Why don't we build a little version at the same tme called a millenium robin or summit- for the non horizontally challenged among us!

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Harry44981!

Why don't we build a little version at the same tme called a millenium robin or summit- for the non horizontally challenged among us!


What, like this?



(That's Lucy Lee on the wire BTW) Photo © Claire Spens


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:16pm

Jim, did you build that yourself?



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Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:37pm

Hi Harry,

There is a design of National Twelve called a 'Pipedream'. They were popular in the early 80's, and had a very narrow bow.  They also pointed very close to the wind but were prone to nose diving, offwind, in a blow, if the crew weight was not well back.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:45pm

Hi Brian,

There are two boats called a Falcon.  One was a family cruiser designed by Fairey Marine and was 16' 6" long. The boats were sailed by up to four people.

The other boat is called the Liverpool Bay Falcon.  I have a friend who sails one at West Kirby S.C. on the Wirral where there are a fleet.  They are a big dinghy, 19' 3" long and, I think, sailed by a crew of three.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:47pm
How about calling it "bullit"

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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen


Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 7:59pm

Hi Phil,

I think that there was a class called 'Bullit' (or similar spelling), in the 80's, which was supposed to be a trainer boat for the Fireball. I don't think many were made though.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Posted By: Lucy Lee
Date Posted: 22 Dec 04 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

Jim, did you build that yourself?

No, he didn't but Jim did build his own boat and there's a photo of that somewhere further back on this thread.

The boat in the picture was designed and built by the guy helming it (Andy Paterson), he's won the Nationals four times in that boat.

Not with me crewing tho', we were just mucking about in that photo. Andy sails competitvely with his daughter Alex who is much, much better than me!



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Fly Cherub!


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 12:59am
Re the earlier comment "Before I started sailing, in my mid thirties, I had played rugby union from being a child. In that sport very good 'big uns' would always beat very good 'little uns' as the playing field was always the same."

Yup, and in basketball the tall guys do better, and in league, and in many other games.

Dinghy sailing is perfect revenge for all of us who are short and light......we LOVE to see you guys suffer in a dinghy, and we feel just as much compassion for you as you did when you used to push us into the mud and trample over us for a try

 


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 6:57am
Originally posted by hurricane

ok that has to be made on PRO DESKTOP right???? 

oh and i suggest TYPHOON as a good name for the class

Nope - Hullform 9S (freebie download).

JimC - yes I have had a look at the ++, but this is more Woof cross P7 cross my own ideas.  Its about 800mm wide on the waterline and any body can have a copy of the Hullform file if they want to build one...

Think I'll call it a Slingshot - bit naff but it was designed in Singapore....



Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 6:59am

Originally posted by Harry44981!

Why don't we build a little version at the same tme called a millenium robin or summit- for the non horizontally challenged among us!

This is actually scaled up from my unbuilt Cherub design called Semtex (version C4....yet another bad attempt at humour...)



Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 9:09am

"Dinghy sailing is perfect revenge for all of us who are short and light......we LOVE to see you guys suffer in a dinghy, and we feel just as much compassion for you as you did when you used to push us into the mud and trample over us for a try "

 

This is a fairly recent trend - when I was young and thin there were lots of boats that could be sailed by the top 10% of the weight range. I remember one of my only visits to Itchenor seeing a group of very disconsolate large men in beers huddling in the bar reminiiscing about the days when the International 14 was a real boat (this was the Kirby 5 era when 14's were stlill made from trees and had just voted in the 1 trapeze) with toestraps - many of these poor men had to make do with the Tempest.

Unfortunately, as the average height and weight of both men and women has increased rigs have got bendier enabling lightweight acrobats to compete with the heavier crews. At the same time there has been comparitively little development of new classes at he larger end of the dinghy world - driving the more substantial sailors into siling keelboats and cruisers - where ponderal discrimination continues to pursue them in the form of weight limits. Discrimination became rampant when, for instance, the ultimate heavyweight boat the Star introduced a very restrictive weight limit - under the old rule we sailed at 94kg for the helm and I managed to get down to 114 kilos so that we were just inside the limit -we would have had to lose about 25 kilos to get down to the new rule.

Effectively dinghy sailing has become a sport like horse racing, for the small, light sportsman. The youth training schemes do not encourage the larger juniors to continue...creating a self perpetuating bias in favour of the scrawny...

Equal rights for the big boys...maybe it is time to organise a demo...a sit-in at the RYA stand at the Dinghy Show perhaps.

 

Gordon

 



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Gordon


Posted By: Lucy Lee
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 9:30am
I had a thought about high performance sailing for you bigger boys: why not get an aussie 16-foot skiff and sail 2-up?

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Fly Cherub!


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 2:59pm

On a more serious note, the trend towards light weight boats and equally light weight crewa and narrow performance bands, limits the market for boats and entry into the sport in general quite consderably.

Not much point in trying to expand its appeal if you start putting ridiculous strictures on it  based on physical attributes. 

There should be something for everyone, not just a band of physically challenged skinny style nazis.



Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 5:21pm
Hey, Have you tried an Osprey?


Posted By: Bruce Starbuck
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 7:17pm

Oi, steady on Pierre.

 



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 9:31pm
pierre, this is a place not to be serious!

and phil, i think u are getting knocked off the "sailing knowledge guru" spot by mr ofotley here...

ian, do u have any ideas for a name?

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Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 9:59pm

Originally posted by Brian

pierre, this is a place not to be serious!

and phil, i think u are getting knocked off the "sailing knowledge guru" spot by mr ofotley here...

ian, do u have any ideas for a name?

Hi Brian,

There was a plane called 'Concorde' and it looked a bit like a bird, the boat design looks a bit like the plane but with the wing tips cut off and obviously a blunted nose (bow).  I don't know whether or not there is a class or design called a 'Concorde', no doubt someone will tell me that there is, but it is a suggestion any way.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 10:21pm
but um, the concorde sorta crashed and burned, and that isnt exactly wat we want to happen to a boat class is it?

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Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 23 Dec 04 at 11:47pm

Originally posted by redback

Hey, Have you tried an Osprey?

Got one thanks, but nice of you to say.......



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 24 Dec 04 at 12:08pm

just flicking through my military plane book and came up with these names:
harrier,(McDonnel douglas)
seafire,(supermarine-navy version of spitfire)
albatross,(sum german company)
seacobra,(made up)
tempest,(hawker-hurricane manufacturer)
kingfisher,(vought-corsair)
whirlwind.(westland)

any thoughts? plane manufacturers are probably better at coming up with names than us...

have dl that hullform, watch out Julian Bethwaite, the next generation genius boatbuilder has arrived!



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Posted By: *GM*
Date Posted: 24 Dec 04 at 3:47pm

How about "Performance Improved Evolution Sailboat"?

Of course, people would probably want to abbreviate that....



Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 24 Dec 04 at 4:18pm
Whatewver it's called all active forum members will get the new boat at 80% discount to give the fleet a jump start!

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Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 24 Dec 04 at 4:24pm

Some of those names are already taken:

Harrier: 14ft single hander designed by Keith Callaghan
Seafire: 14ft 1 or 2 person boat - with movable mast for when you don't want the jib. Designed by S.J. Herbert.
Tempest: Two man 22ft racing keel boat designed by Ian Proctor.

 



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 25 Dec 04 at 9:50pm
yup, i knew it, when names like "vago" start appearing , u can be sure all the good names are taken.

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Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 1:35pm

CHange of opinion - perfect answer on the military aircraft theme -

The Blackbird - have a look at the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird - looks very long with short stubby wings and was the Fastest, Highest Flying combat plane in history...

so, apart from the fastest and highest bits, it should be OK then!



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 7:09pm

yeah i saw that but i was tryin to stick to the glorifying the British WW2 pilot theme a la the hurricane and spitfire

oh yeah i thought maybe we could call it "the sunday times"? 



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Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 8:05pm
hang on did brian just say the H word??? omg !!!!!


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 8:07pm

what about typhoon?? i think thats an awsome name

or we could have the tempest



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 9:26pm
typhoon is a bad choice, it reminds me of that old wetsuit make! the discomfort

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 9:36pm
havent we been through the Typhoon thing already  and hey! i said tempest first!

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Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 9:54pm
yea sorry noticed that afterwards!!


Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by hurricane

what about typhoon?? i think thats an awsome name

or we could have the tempest

Hi Hurricane,

Just to put both of these names to bed, they are both existing classes. The Typhoon is an old, 14' 6", centreboard design by Ian Proctor. The Tempest is a 6.7m keelboat which is still popular throughout the world, this boat was also designed by Ian Proctor in 1965.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.) 



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 28 Dec 04 at 10:30pm
mr proctor is into the whole glorification thing then?

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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 11:47am
Generally speaking longer boats are less responsive, although generally faster.  For us older guys, who are generally heavier a long boat is a good idea.  Perhaps there's room in the market for a 3 person asymmetric - similar to a 18 foot skiff but not so extreme?  Wider on the waterline, racks like a 49er and weighting not much more.  Perhaps only the 2 crew on the wire?  The yardstick would probably be around 800 and being able to carry weight might be OK in light winds as well as the strong stuff.  Price might be a problem although it would be shared 3 ways.


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 11:52am
No, on second thoughts, being inherently more stable and less twitchy because of its length, even a less agile helm ought to have the benefit of relaxing on the trapeze.  However the kite might have to be 40 sq metres and that might be difficult to get into a shute - that's where we need a bit of innovation.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by redback

Generally speaking longer boats are less responsive, although generally faster.  For us older guys, who are generally heavier a long boat is a good idea.  Perhaps there's room in the market for a 3 person asymmetric - similar to a 18 foot skiff but not so extreme? 


16 foot skiff.


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 5:35pm
any links to the 16 foot skiffs?

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

any links to the 16 foot skiffs?

http://www.skiffs.org.au/ - http://www.skiffs.org.au/


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 29 Dec 04 at 11:50pm
Skiff v Tornado?  See who wins? http://www.skiffs.org.au/MISC%20IMAGES/tornado.htm - http://www.skiffs.org.au/MISC%20IMAGES/tornado.htm


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 30 Dec 04 at 1:49pm
Here we go again...


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 31 Dec 04 at 9:54pm
noooo......

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Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 01 Jan 05 at 10:32am


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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 01 Jan 05 at 4:58pm
I only asked.  Just too lazy to search the other threads.

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Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 06 Jan 05 at 4:35pm
Back to the original topic - Dago, why don't you just come back to the fold and buy another FD???


Posted By: Dago
Date Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 1:09am

Ah Neil,

If it were that simple!  No new FD's around.

I must say that the FD still is the only dinghy I have got into, (over many many years of sailing), where I new straight away that this was the boat to sail. Although maybe at 46, we left it to late.

Since 2001, Brian & I have been searching for the modern day equivalent of the FD. Something those of a certain age can easily handle ashore, coupled with the thrill of speed. where the helm doesn't have to suspended himself on a wire from the boat. But it has the advantage of the simple assymetric kite & speed to play with.

Incidentially, did you know that the Dart 16 ( considered by most to be a nancy beach boat type craft, actually sails off a yardstick very close to the FD - that shows how fast boats have progressed in the last few years!.

Unfortunately all the fast boats are now assymetric kited craft, with lightness for handling, no wonder now everyone is sailing assymetric!

When Brian & I sailed our FD, I also sailed a Lark with my wife. I had the only symmetrical spinnaker boats in the club that raced every weekend but all racing was aimed quite obviously at the assymetric boat. So you have to join in!

Regards to you & Rosie,

 



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Dago
RS400


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 11:30pm
Looks like you'll have to knock it on the head then, because there ain't no Assymentric boats like that.  They're all built for dwarfs or anorexics.  That's why the FD, Osprey , Javelin, 5o5, Fireball etc are still going strong.


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 08 Jan 05 at 11:36pm
If you can't get an asymmetric you could always go for a Javelin - I've just been looking at their website - it looks fun.


Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 09 Jan 05 at 3:40pm
i would recomend a javelin anytime!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 09 Jan 05 at 8:20pm

Or an Osprey of course



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 09 Jan 05 at 8:34pm
ooh, some competition!    Javelin wins everytime!!!     

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 12:27am

Actually, what about a New Zealand Javelin??

14ft long, 15m2 of sail + assy., 1 wire, only weighs 70Kg and they go for about $3000 NZ second hand - including the price of shipping to UK that is about the same as a second hand RS400...

http://www.javelins.org - www.javelins.org

(Assuming you don't want to build my boat...



Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 8:27am

Originally posted by sailor girl

ooh, some competition!    Javelin wins everytime!!!     

Cheeky Monkey!



Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 10:56am

Sailor girl - Dago said he wanted something fast

Osprey and Jav both lose out to FD in several areas. Dago, if you're serious, talk to Tony Lyall. He's got a very nice Mader for sale at present. Be good to see you in God's own dinghy again

Neil



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 5:08pm
    [/QUOTE]


Cheeky Monkey!

[/QUOTE]


Hey! i'm not at all a cheeky monkey!

Javlines can be fast!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 6:31pm

Sailor Girl, all the FastSail classes are Fast.  You should be interested in the FD's because many of the helms in the FD fleet in the UK are girlies



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 6:40pm
i'm not changing boat yet...i was just defending the Javelin and trying to give it some well deserved credit for being a cool boat!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 8:01pm
Yes, but you have to watch those FD chappies young ladiy.  Turn your back for one second and whoosh.... they've got you signed up.  Cunning swines.  Especially that Neil bloke


Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 9:15am
Don't know what you can possibly mean Pierre! Sailor Girl definitely needs to try an FD though. The Jav is a cool boat, but the FD is SO much cooler!! Lots faster too!


Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 11:35am
I like the new pic sailor girl, good choice!!

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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen


Posted By: Doctor Clifford
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Pierre

Yes, but you have to watch those
FD chappies young lady.  Turn your back for one
second and whoosh.... ..


Steady on!

-------------
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily


Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 2:27pm
Been taking the tablets Doc, don't seem to be helping. There's just something about women in wetsuits driving big, fast, powerful boats. Every crew in the FD fleet knows what - and who - I'm talking about. 


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 2:53pm

Originally posted by NeilP

Been taking the tablets Doc, don't seem to be helping. There's just something about women in wetsuits driving big, fast, powerful boats. Every crew in the FD fleet knows what - and who - I'm talking about. 

Neil is sailing very close to the wind here.....everybody in FastSail knows who he's talking about. 



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 6:08pm
hey, i Don't!      i'm guessing i dont want to know?!
Thanks for noticing my new pic!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: sailor.jon
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Pierre

Originally posted by NeilP

Been taking the tablets Doc, don't seem to be helping. There's just something about women in wetsuits driving big, fast, powerful boats. Every crew in the FD fleet knows what - and who - I'm talking about. 

Neil is sailing very close to the wind here.....everybody in FastSail knows who he's talking about. 



by the sounds of this i shud be swapping classes lol:P 

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Jon
Vortex 1169
http://www.yorkshiredales.sc/ - Yorkshire Dales Sailing Club


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 11:52pm
Now I know I'm missing something in my Laser4000!


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 7:55am
Originally posted by Pierre

Originally posted by NeilP

Been taking the tablets Doc, don't seem to be helping. There's just something about women in wetsuits driving big, fast, powerful boats. Every crew in the FD fleet knows what - and who - I'm talking about. 

Neil is sailing very close to the wind here.....everybody in FastSail knows who he's talking about. 

Hear hear.... (but the person in question does blush rather well....not a common trait among FD sailors)

Paul



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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 3:44pm
thanks for the credit there sailor girl!

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Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 5:17pm
oh, yeh, thankyou Brian for my avatar, i wish i was so clever myself!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 5:35pm
UNFORTUNATELY the Fd class website on sailingsource.com
does not hav a gallery, and i am unable to find out who this
person is that we are talking about??

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