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Bye Bye Europe

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=284
Printed Date: 12 Jul 20 at 4:17am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Bye Bye Europe
Posted By: SCFinn
Subject: Bye Bye Europe
Date Posted: 12 Nov 04 at 3:54pm

So the Europe is out of the 2008 Olympics.

Even more money for the Laser People - World domination!

All the girls need to get down to the Laser Centre for their Radials!

 



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SWC



Replies:
Posted By: Lucy
Date Posted: 12 Nov 04 at 4:24pm

I know some of the Europe girls and they're probably gonna be gutted. You spend an Olympic Cycle learning about the boat and just about get to grips with it and start to make progress - then all of a sudden they've got to sell up and get a Radial.

I guess there'll be alot of cheap, well-maintained Europes going up for Sale now! They must be breathing a sigh of relief though...they could have been stuck with a byte  (Joke)



Posted By: Sarah B
Date Posted: 12 Nov 04 at 4:30pm

OH NO!

Don't think I'm going to sell my Europe though, means I can go for a fun sail when I have had enough of a radial!



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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.


Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 12 Nov 04 at 4:55pm

You have also got to feel sorry for those girls who haven't been through the Olympic cycle and only bought the boat a few months ago, having sold the Radial and will have lost lots of dosh Oh well... guess there will be lots of Radial coaching for me  

 

Jon



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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 -


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 13 Nov 04 at 11:13pm
I think the Europe is a nice boat but they can be costly.  At least the Laser is relatively cheap and redily available world wide.


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 10:00am

It's an awful warning to classes why Olympic selection is bad news.

15 years ago the Europe was ticking along nicely in the UK as a class consisting 50/50 of women and male youths moving up from Opis but too light for Lasers. It had an active open circuit with modest but steady turn-outs. Then it was selected for the Olympics. Initially interest soared but over time it became clear that the level of support the handful in the RYA squad were receiving made success in the class virtually unobtainable for anyone else. The men moved elsewhere, as did the women who did not have Olympic aspirations. Now the class has been dropped from the Olympics and there is nothing left.

So if you want your class selected for the Olympics, think hard what you really want.

  

 



Posted By: Brian
Date Posted: 14 Nov 04 at 9:42pm
just dont get rid of the 49er! i dont sail them tho ( i wish!) but they are the most exciting to watch

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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 8:03am

But feel free to replace the 49er if some faster, more exciting skiff came along!



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Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 10:37am

Originally posted by Brian

just dont get rid of the 49er! i dont sail them tho ( i wish!) but they are the most exciting to watch

49ers are cool...........  But don't forget to check out the new Spinnaker Tornado  Seriously quick...............



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http://www.formula18alive.com - www.formula18alive.com


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 10:45am

The warning about the Europe by Stefan is something to recognise.  A similar thing happened to the Flying Dutchman.  Olympic boats without very strict one design rules get developed in ways which make them very expensive for normal punters (some Dutchmen had titanium centreboards).  With the Europe you'll find the top people talk about developing sails and rig and go through several rigs and dozens of sails in a year.  To be competitive you require a sail and mast to match your weight.  Against stars with funding you are unlikely to be able to compete.  Its sad for the Europe but I suspect it will now fade away.

Boats like the 5o5, which have avoided Olympic selection, have thrived.

At least the Laser Radial has such strict rules it will survive the Olympics just as the Laser has done.



Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 1:00pm
The Flying Dutchman is a fantastic boat.  If you want to go fast upwind (as well as down) this is the boat to do it in.  Also look absolutely beautiful.  One of the most stylish boats you can sail.


Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 6:45pm

I'm inclined to agree about the hull, not so sure about the rig - a bit squat for my taste - but there's not many of them around.  There are also quite a few faster boats at a lot less money that can be sailed by people of more normal strength and build.

I have sailed a Dutchman but prefer the 5o5 out of the conventionally rigged fast boats.



Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 15 Nov 04 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by redback

I'm inclined to agree about the hull, not so sure about the rig - a bit squat for my taste - but there's not many of them around.  There are also quite a few faster boats at a lot less money that can be sailed by people of more normal strength and build.

I have sailed a Dutchman but prefer the 5o5 out of the conventionally rigged fast boats.

 

Don't think you'll find anything much quicker up wind, and I think the FD lady helms, and there are a surprising number of them, would take kindly to the comments about "normal strength and build".

You can get a pretty decent boat for a lot less than the cost of a Laser.



Posted By: Rob.e
Date Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 9:00pm

If you're talking normal strength and build, look at James Cole, ( several times FD champ crew) I think he's 6' 7" or so. I also hear they use such high rig tension at the top of the fleet that they don't last long, so you can get a cheap one, but you won't win. As the man said earlier, development in non-one design classes for the olympics makes them out of reach for normal people.

Shame about the Europe, it was originally a massive class on the continent, and a happy class in this country, I hope it survives.

"Romanis ite dominum"



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 9:33pm
Of course, if you read the "interesting" discussion about C##p classes elsewhere on this forum, the Europe would go straight away from olympic class to one that should be banned (and all the boats burned? - I confess I didn't quite work out what was going to happen to all the boats) from racing in British waters, on the basis that there aren't enough of them, they were designed recently and aren't marketed by a "name". I had a great few years sailing Europe172, and I wish the class well.


Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 16 Nov 04 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Rob.e

If you're talking normal strength and build, look at James Cole, ( several times FD champ crew) I think he's 6' 7" or so. I also hear they use such high rig tension at the top of the fleet that they don't last long, so you can get a cheap one, but you won't win. As the man said earlier, development in non-one design classes for the olympics makes them out of reach for normal people.

Shame about the Europe, it was originally a massive class on the continent, and a happy class in this country, I hope it survives.

"Romanis ite dominum"

I don't know where you got the Idea about FD's not lasting very long from. Mader boats are still going strong well into their second decade.

In Regards to crew size, yes there are big crews, James Cole being one, me another. There is also a ready supply of female helms sailing with average size men on the wire. There are also boats who sail with the girl on the wire. The technique is far more important than the size of the trapeze ape.

Just because a boat can carry weight doesn't mean that it has to,

   



Posted By: Haggis
Date Posted: 21 Nov 04 at 10:05pm

Worst investment since my Enron shares



Posted By: NeilP
Date Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 1:04pm

It's quite extraordinary the number of myths that have grown up around the FD. Titanium centreboards?? Who? When? Don't last? Tell that to Ian McCrossin, whose boat was built in 1987 and who is almost always in the hunt at Worlds level. Any Mader FD built after about 1985 is still capable of winning at any level. As for the weight/size issue, I am 6ft and around 86 KG, and my helm is 5 ft 4in and 60 kg wringing wet. Jamie is 100% correct, if you're big enough for a Laser you could cope with crewing an FD. It's a fabulous boat, and in 15+ knots in a Solent chop it is as fast round a race course as most - if not all!

Neil



Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 4:57pm

Yes you're right, up-wind in a chop there's probably nothing faster.  Size matters.

Am I wrong about the titanium centreboard?



Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 5:48pm
I don't recall there ever having been a Titanium c/b, I do know that there was one with an ajustable trim tab on its trailing edge, bur this was banned because it would have been too expensive.


Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 23 Nov 04 at 7:25pm
is anyone sad to see the back of the mistral???



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