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Amount of discards?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Race Management
Forum Discription: For race officers and competiors to discuss the topic
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=264
Printed Date: 11 Jul 20 at 1:59pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Amount of discards?
Posted By: Harry44981!
Subject: Amount of discards?
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 4:27pm

What do you  think is the best counting race to discard ratio?

At most events i've been to it's:

  • 1-2 races 0 discards
  • 3-7 races 1 discard
  • 8+ races 2 discards

but ive been to a few with 8 races 1 discard, and 4 races no discard. What works best?




Replies:
Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 4:48pm

The Olympics this year was very nearly NO discards!  It was only because of the uproar from the MNA's that the discard was reinstated. Worth having a look at the ISAF site for information on this.

Personally I think one discard is sufficient since this allows for a bit of gear failure (gear failure in two races equals poor preparation) and dodgy French Finn sailors who let you pass and then protest you! 



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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 5:45pm
but maybe more discards with high performance boats on short courses?

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Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 6:10pm
Why?

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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 6:35pm
And what about a series?  At BBSC we have a 50% discard so that those that can only turn up for the mornings (or afternoon) can still qualify.


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 27 Oct 04 at 6:42pm

A club series is a different matter.  I was talking about a regatta, open meeting or nationals etc.  For a club series you need to be a bit more flexible, and BBSC is just that.  Great sailing for all



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Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 2:18pm
I think 1 discard is enough for a weekend event, provided you get at least three races, and even then it would be better if you needed four before the discard kicked in.  As for week long events I guess it depends, but two discards over the course of a week's nationals is fair enough.  1 discard for every two days of sailing, more or less. 

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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen


Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 2:25pm
yeah, i think 1 discard for three races. or 4 at a push!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 7:21pm

but if you had a discard for every 3 races, then you'd have 2 for 6-  which is a bit ridiculous. The only reason for 3 race series with 1 discard is for opens, when they don't want people packing up after being BFD in race 1, when normally a discard only comes in after4 races min.

I'd say 1-7 races 1 discard, 8-13 2 discards and 14+ 3 discards

Alowing for 1 BFD (or bad race for every 4ish)



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Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 7:52pm

Does anyone know if there had been no discards at the Olympics if we would have more or less medals?



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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 8:03pm

No discards would have made very little difference to the results of the Olympics

The only differences would have been  the silver and bronze in the Laser class would have been reversed and the womens Mistrals was decided on the discard.  That is without the discard they would have been on equal points.

There is a link from the Finn class web site to the results http://www.finnclass.org - www.finnclass.org



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Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 28 Oct 04 at 10:43pm

Looking at the results with no discards there are very few place changes over the whole fleet. So why do we have them?

Even Ben's DSQ did not affect his final result - he would still have won gold.

There would have been a few other medal changes - are there any other sports who run a series and then allow a discard?

 



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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 9:28am
Ah but Trujillo and the Pole were both OCS, the same points as a DSQ, so in effect it didnt matter for the top 3, but if lets say Trujillo was in the top 10, not OCS with no discard regatta he would have won Gold - not Ainslie.

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Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 9:30am

Having no discards would mean different tactics in the last race. It would mean that you would have to get the best result in every race. So no forcing someone over the line or the tactics used by Ben in the last race at Sydney.

What is better?



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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: Phil eltringham
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 9:42am
I think it simply adds a different dynamic to racing, discard or not the racing would be just as good, the emphasis would simply change

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FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen


Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 11:11am
That's basically it. Do you try to win  OR try to make someone else lose

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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 1:31pm

Not tooo good with no discards if your always BFD, saying that for no perticular reason



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Posted By: bigwavedave
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 5:18pm

If you dig deep into the ISAF website you may be able to find the arguements for and against discards.  One of the reasons suggested for not having discards at the Olympics was to make the racing easier to understand for those not familiar with the sport.  Also as mentioned above it would mean that everybody had to race in the last race of the regatta and try to win.

If you keep getting black flagged or called OCS you really need to work on your starts, not hope for more discards.



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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 29 Oct 04 at 6:21pm
OCS no prob, you can go back BFD- annoying and with a 260 boat fleet Topper RO's like using it . If you're buried in the 2nd 3rd or 4th row, or even a  bad place in the 1st row you've got a mountain to climb.

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