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What sports boat?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: Keelboat news and development
Forum Discription: All the latest developments for yachts
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2062
Printed Date: 29 Sep 20 at 11:39am
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Topic: What sports boat?
Posted By: Corms
Subject: What sports boat?
Date Posted: 31 Jul 06 at 9:57pm

Sorry for the same type of posting again.

I am looking for a sports boat up to £13,000 in good condition but need symetrical spinny for club racing due to the courses we race on.

At the moment got a Micro 18 but looking for something that is easily trailed but can stay on a mooring. I am looking at H22, Isis 21 type of yacht but very few on the market at the moment

Mainly small fleet handicap racing and mainly a crew of 4.

Any tips, suggestions or suitable boats for sale gratefully received.

 

Neil

 



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Neil



Replies:
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 01 Aug 06 at 6:29am

Hunter 707. Plenty for sale (at a lot below £13K), symmetrical kite, light enough to be trailed by most 2L cars, can live on a mooring. Can be sailed with 4 but you'd do better with 5.

Projection 762 would be the other one that comes to mind. It's a bigger boat with more of a "little yacht" feel. There are generally one or two for sale, asking price usually a little more than £13K.

 



Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 01 Aug 06 at 12:35pm
SB3!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 01 Aug 06 at 12:36pm
oops thats not symetric! get one anyway!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 01 Aug 06 at 12:51pm
1720, not symmetric but can easily sail like one due to the cut.

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international moth - "what what?"


Posted By: sailor girl
Date Posted: 01 Aug 06 at 1:01pm
hmmmmmmmmmmmm! nice boats!

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Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!


Posted By: Lighthouse
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 9:44am
Check out the Sonar - proper four-up boat, happy on a mooring, one-
design racing in a few fleets around the country, and total bandit rating
under SBR!


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 08 Aug 06 at 10:01am

There is a Sonar fleet in Cowes. Where are the other UK fleets you mention?

I'd personally call it a keelboat rather than a sportsboat.

 



Posted By: Lighthouse
Date Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 1:06pm
Theres definitely some in the north east (sunderland), scotland and
ireland, and accordeing to the class sight also in Plymouth and Eastborne
- not sure where you;re based Corms. Plus you get to come and do
Cowes Week with your own start (and the cheapest bar on the island)!
Yep, it is a keelboat (doesn't that make the the 707 one too?) but it has a
great rating under SBR - they always do really well on Round the Island
and have caused Backmans and J80s plenty of trouble at Hamble/Warsash
Sereis.


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 4:19pm

707 has a lid. I wouldn't call it a keelboat, except in the sense that all boats with keels are keelboats. Whereas a Sonar is a keelboat like an Etchells or a Dragon is a keelboat i.e. an open day racer.

"Sussex Sailability is currently raising funds to purchase a Sonar for the new season" Doesn't quite make it a fleet yet. I've never heard of a Sonar fleet in Plymouth, thought it was J24s and J80s there.

I'm not knocking Sonars as boats: just not sure there are UK fleets outside Cowes.

 



Posted By: Corms
Date Posted: 12 Aug 06 at 11:48am
I am based in the North of Scotland, so it will be mainly PY club handicap racing that I will be doing with the occasional bigger event.

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Neil


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 12 Aug 06 at 10:33pm

Originally posted by Corms

I am based in the North of Scotland, so it will be mainly PY club handicap racing that I will be doing with the occasional bigger event.

 

There used to be a little fleet of Bene FC 8ms up around the Moray firth AFAIK

 

pretty tired now as a buy (someone will no doubt correct me)

 

but the 707 is actually more fun than many detractors will let you believe and you can go do east coast week or some stuff on the forth in class, or scottish series in SBR . A 10 k plus new sails budget could be a wise plan

 

It ain't all that narrow where you sail!

 

Go on , get an SB3! you know you want to!



Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 13 Aug 06 at 8:21am
There is a 707 based at Inverness, I believe. He also used to head down to sail with the 707 fleet at Port Edgar.


Posted By: garth weaver
Date Posted: 09 Sep 06 at 9:47am
I own a Projection 762 and would suggest that it fits the bill.  Easily raced by 4 and great performance downwind in a blow - 15 knots boatspeed in Force 5 and very stiff upwind.  Competitive in most conditions under IRC - see results of Class Q Falmouth Week 2006.


Posted By: Dart_Fart
Date Posted: 31 Oct 06 at 1:54pm
Have a look at a J24

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I feel the need... The need... For getting really really wet.


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 11 Nov 06 at 8:12pm

The 762 is a bit slicker up and down wind than the 707, and it probably sleeps it's crew- allegedly.

 

But you have an OD fleet half a days drive away and the 707 is a very good platform for a scratch crew.

From living up in snechie for a while (mountain biking days) I seem to remember plenty of breezy days. The 707 loves top of 3 and is controllable with just three in more- just remember everyone's gotta stand on the transom!

 

I think it is a shame that the UK took up the SB fleets it did in the late 90s, the 762 or the Platou B25 are both superior to the 707 and need less crew than the Cork'....... but now the SB3 is all good news IMHO! 



Posted By: Holly
Date Posted: 12 Nov 06 at 9:45pm
The Projection 762 is a great boat - was sailing one only this morning in a bit of a blow and they're so managable whatever the conditions despite being super quick and well balanced.

Only problem is they're not one design as the size of kite is variable and they've a mean IRC rating - you've got to be super speedy!

However - is this guy not sorted with a boat yet, first post was in July!!



Posted By: Erne Sailor
Date Posted: 15 Nov 06 at 10:09am

Hi Neil

Look at a J/24, seems to meet all your criteria, and will also open up wider opportunities in the world's largest and most widespread class of its kind.

For £13k you will get a very good one, suited to championship racing, but for your purposes, an older Westerly J/24 could cost a third of that and give lots of fun.

Go to http://www.j24ireland.com - www.j24ireland.com and follow links to boats for sale in IRL and GBR.



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Michael Clarke, President, J/24 Association of Ireland


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 7:06pm
J24 every time


Posted By: Erne Sailor
Date Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 8:15pm

Hi Neil - notice you are in Scotland and others mentioning Sonars, one not sure many in UK. On holiday last month I saw about six Sonars in Fortwilliam, along with a neat apparatus for lifting one off a launching trolley on to a road trailer. Their narow beam maked this easy. Still, for all round use and for opportunities worldwide, nothing beats a proper J/24

 



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Michael Clarke, President, J/24 Association of Ireland


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 18 Nov 06 at 6:35am
However the topic is "what sports boat" and the J24, whatever its virtues, is not a sports boat. The Australians claim to have invented the word (and probably did). There, it is roughly equivalent to "fast trailerable boat". The J24 isn't "trailerable" in their terminology because you need a crane for the keel-stepped mast. They would probably argue that "fast" does not apply either. If you would like a more robust version of this argument, try posting about J24s on http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showforum=14 - http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showforum=14


Posted By: Erne Sailor
Date Posted: 18 Nov 06 at 4:30pm

Mainly small fleet handicap racing and mainly a crew of 4 was the summary  specification in the first message of this thread. For this reason and other good reasons, the J/24 was mentioned. It is trailed to events. It does NOT need a crane for the keel stepped mast. The mast is simpler, safer and stronger being keel stepped. Travelling  J/24s worldwide have a gin pole, with which the mast is much easier and safer to raise than are comparable deck stepped masts. I have raised a J/24 mast by gin pole, often single handed, a dozen times a year for many season's past going round the Irish J/24 racing circuit. As a club crane operator I have been involved with deck stepped masts. They are much less safe and strong

 



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Michael Clarke, President, J/24 Association of Ireland


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 18 Nov 06 at 5:20pm
I sailed a J24 for a season, including trailering to events, and we craned the mast in. As far as I remember (and it was a few years ago), so did everyone else. Whether keel- or deck-stepped is more robust is not the subject of debate. J24 is a good choice if you have local class racing but the title of the thread is "which sports boat" and it is not a sports boat. Not really ideal for an average-sized crew of 4 either, come to that.


Posted By: Corms
Date Posted: 23 Nov 06 at 6:50pm

Thanks for all the replies.

I am still looking (prefer to sell Micro 18 first). I like the look of the projection and Sonar but would like to know how they do racing on PY handicap as it is mainly handicap racing I will be doing.

 I have been put off the 707 slightly as it mabye stuggles slightly in light airs, which we tend to get a lot of for our racing.

Following Erne Sailors post above I think it was probably Soling that you saw in Fort William as they have a fleet there.

I am still grateful for info or suggestions.

 

 



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Neil


Posted By: Mark Jardine
Date Posted: 24 Nov 06 at 8:36am

If you're looking for second hand J/24s take a look on the http://www.j24class.org.uk/?s=classifieds - UK J/24 class website . A good range available in the UK from between £3250 and £15000. Running costs are extremely low for a 24' yacht. Competitive livespan for a good boat (such as a Rogers) is very long.

You need to crane the boat into the water (most have a single-point lifting strop) but most masts are raised with a gin pole (can't remember when we last did this with a crane).

Performance is very good in the light winds. Not as fast as a modern sports boat in the strong winds but still great fun.



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There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 27 Nov 06 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Corms

Thanks for all the replies.

I am still looking (prefer to sell Micro 18 first). I like the look of the projection and Sonar but would like to know how they do racing on PY handicap as it is mainly handicap racing I will be doing.

 I have been put off the 707 slightly as it mabye stuggles slightly in light airs, which we tend to get a lot of for our racing.

Following Erne Sailors post above I think it was probably Soling that you saw in Fort William as they have a fleet there.

I am still grateful for info or suggestions.

 

 

 

Sonars plane at least and get an SBR / OD for Tarbert as well. Probably not much in it for upwind on a 707 but the hunter will go well in light airs ..let the cat out the bag from a handful of light winds and heavy- sail them four up not five or even go with three in the light.

 

J24- isn't that a non planing yankie quarter ton copy with the keel in the wrong place and some Irish ones which were two feet longer on the water line than they should have been?  Oh I hear it, yes, everything will surf given enough blow...even smegma 33's



Posted By: Erne Sailor
Date Posted: 06 Dec 06 at 1:15pm

If you want to see J/24s in action

NATIONS CUP J/24s ON TV

Sky Sports 2 lists ‘Yachting: The Nations Cup grand final’ for 09.30 on Thursday 7 December and again at 10.00 on Sunday morning

Watch a half hour of superb match racing on Cork Harbour at the ISAF Nations Cup world final, hosted by Royal Cork YC and sailed in International J/24 keelboats loaned via ISA to RCYC by Irish owners from eight other clubs in Ireland.

This ISAF Grade One event was the most important international sailing event in Ireland’s 2006 season. A major Irish contribution to international sailing, it won great praise at November’s annual conference of the International Sailing Federation.

More at

http://www.royalcork.com/ - www.royalcork.com

http://www.matchrace.ie/ - www.matchrace.ie

http://www.j24ireland.com/ - www.j24ireland.com

 



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Michael Clarke, President, J/24 Association of Ireland


Posted By: Corms
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 10:25am

I think it is now down to a Sonar or a Platu 25.

I have never sailed on a Sonar or Platu 25, can anyone give me good points and bad points for both of them.

It is mixed handicapp racing using PY handicapps on the sea most of the time..

 



-------------
Neil


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 18 Dec 06 at 9:00pm

Haven't sailed a sonar, but-

 

the platou is a cool bit of kit, not as fast as a melges but planes at about 8- 9 knts boat speed and surfs very readily.

 

very nice in light airs, but in f5 you will need a good main trimmer and foredack/kite trimmer on the down hill leg.

 

It also sleeps two, could be converted to sleep 3 or 4, and has a nice outboard well and locker easier to use than the 707s.

 

The sails are strict OD and quite reasonable for Norths. Very nice shape L1, H1s, plus you get a jib cunningham which works great. In fact everything is geared nearly perfecfly and it has a big, fast boat feel for a well ballasted SB.

There are two sail on the clyde regularily now and maybe three or four going to scottish series if you were prepared to trail and be no.4!  The guys with ELF on the clyde are worth talking to.

 

Despite being a huge fann of the wee farr, I'd still say look at a 707- they lack the finesse and feel but you could get easier OD racing. A more stable planing platform as well!

 

But if you are a former quarter ton owner (?) then go for the platou for really enjoying your sailing



Posted By: Corms
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 11:21am

Hi

In the end we have purchased a Sonar, picking it up in the near future.

Thanks for all the advice given in this forum.

Cheers

Corms

 

 

 



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Neil


Posted By: Erne Sailor
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 11:33am

Meantime, probably your nearest J/24 bargain, in Whitby and good racing condition with road trailer etc, has gone to Ireland, and at a price a third of you upper limit in first posting. Also off to Ireland since are two other J/24 bargains, well set up for racing, from Exeter and Falmouth, each just over half your target.

 

 



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Michael Clarke, President, J/24 Association of Ireland


Posted By: chic
Date Posted: 07 Jan 07 at 3:48pm

Conratulations on your new purchase Corms,

I've been watching this thread with some interest since I found myself in a similar position, wanting a sportsboat after racing a Club 19 for a season and a bit. Eventually we bought the Projection 762 for a variety of reasons (I suspect our criteria were a little different to yours, eg can't camp on a Sonar).

Enjoy the Sonar, they looked fun at Tarbert...

Chic



Posted By: Corms
Date Posted: 07 Jan 07 at 6:10pm

Thanks Chic

We enquired about a Projection but someone had put a deposit down on it. We were also very interested in a Benuteau 25 but sometimes we can only manage 3 of a crew, so the Sonar seemed the suitable choice.

Projection looks a lovely boat.

Corms

 



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Neil


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 10 Jan 07 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Corms

Thanks Chic

We enquired about a Projection but someone had put a deposit down on it. We were also very interested in a Benuteau 25 but sometimes we can only manage 3 of a crew, so the Sonar seemed the suitable choice.

Projection looks a lovely boat.

Corms

 

 

probably a good choice with some future OD racing to boot.

 

the platou (bene 25) does like three average people hiking plus a main trimmer, but two big blokes and the main man swinging round often does the job.




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