RIP Y&Ying forum?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14000
Printed Date: 17 Apr 24 at 8:29pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: RIP Y&Ying forum?
Posted By: Do Different
Subject: RIP Y&Ying forum?
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 6:34am
Not even a PY rant. The irony of this post is not lost on me as I think PY conspiracy rants are the most pointless of posts and nearly nobody looks like they are reading this anyway.
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Replies:
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 9:52am
All forums see less traffic these days . True this has declined quicker than most of the others I post on . But most of them are cycling ones so the fan base is bigger. Tbh we all know why it declined so quickly so there is no point going over it again . I had hoped people would drift back to it after a while as there is no real other option for uk sailing chat and fb chat groups never seem to last either. But unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be happening. It seems a shame as I know some of the regulars are still posting on other sailing forums .
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 10:26am
I have thought of posting something similar for a few months. Speaking for myself, I find it difficult to post a spontaneous reply, you know posters who never post anything other than criticism are going to rip it to pieces.
Posters are also very black and white, no grey areas or acceptance of diverse opinions.
Nothing wrong with harmless conspiracy theories, poisonous theories are another matter, it would be irresponsible of a serious yachting publication not to call out the unpleasant, disrespectful posts. Posters who have been called out and been edited need to examine what they have written, perhaps think about how it would affect their lives if their opinion was published in news papers and TV news, businesses and lives could be ruined (bit over the top but you know what I mean).
------------- Robert
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Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 10:27am
I am guessing social media takes up more of people's time these days, even at my advanced age (47!)
Whilst it doesn't necessarily provide as much sailing-related chat, it is probably where most people gravitate towards for a dose of (virtual) human interaction.
Fashions always come round again though. In another few years maybe Bulletin Boards will have a revival.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 11:15am
Think your probably right mags.
But some forums are still surviving and the thing they do seem to have in common is a ignore feature . It’s like blocking on fb, you don’t see the ignored persons posts and they don’t see yours (at your discretion ) . That feature might have defused some of the situations that have developed on here in the past .
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 11:16am
Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 11:36am
Maybe some smart IT person could write an app to synchronise forum chats to posts in a Facebook group so that either format would work.For thioe that are not aware and who may be interested, someone recentlty started a new group on FB called The Pin End that is hoping to cover some of the ground this forum used to https://www.facebook.com/groups/703800177963531/
------------- OK 2249
D-1 138
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 12:08pm
From time to time whilst on a really boring conference call I check in on the forum and have a read if there is any new topics. I had been fairly active a few years back but found it to be rather unfriendly with a mix of trolls, some folks who had the same old mindset and no desire to engage / discuss / be flexible or a feeling that if you were not in the clique then you were just ignored. In the end people get bored of being ignored or abused so we just stop posting, stop showing up and here we are. RIP indeed.
------------- H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 2:32pm
Like H2, I only visit these days, but not post This forum has long been extinct, and only frequented by the die-hards, trolls (we know who they are/were...), and some who dislike social media. Mark should put it out of its misery. I havnt posted for a while but my previous posts have long reckoned and forecast and recommended that the forum should be laid to rest. Some forums (the toxic SA) do manage to stay upright, but most have long since capsized. Life has moved on. How many new posts this year? - a handful. RIP.
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Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 2:39pm
It is a shame; the traditional forum is far superior than a Facebook group IMHO; it builds up a library of discussions and can be easily searched and reviewed. You don't get any of that on Facebook.
The masses preferring FB is just more laziness for an easier but inferior platform for this type of specialist stuff. I do think some moderation 10 years ago could have changed things to get rid of the obvious trolling but that is history now.
Edit: Possibly a reflection of the sport too ...
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Old Timer
It is a shame; the traditional forum is far superior than a Facebook group IMHO; it builds up a library of discussions and can be easily searched and reviewed. You don't get any of that on Facebook.
The masses preferring FB is just more laziness for an easier but inferior platform for this type of specialist stuff. I do think some moderation 10 years ago could have changed things to get rid of the obvious trolling but that is history now.
Edit: Possibly a reflection of the sport too ...
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Totally agree with all your points and as a person that got ‘ triggered’ more than most by the ‘ normal suspects’ over the years, I wish I had handled things differently.
But I don’t suppose it would have made much difference and as you said it’s all history now .
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 4:13pm
Oh dear. The Pin End FB group I have just joined, has one or 2 'trolls who spout their usual grievances' I recognise from here.... Shame.
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Posted By: Old Timer
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Chris_H
Oh dear. The Pin End FB group I have just joined, has one or 2 'trolls who spout their usual grievances' I recognise from here.... Shame.
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The difference with FB is peoples identity is clear so that should hopefully stop some of the trolling as you can see who’s doing it. That said some of the problems this forum never addressed were not from an unknown member. Although I don’t think it was pure trolling just someone on a different parallel thought train. But some obvious baiting.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Chris_H
Oh dear. The Pin End FB group I have just joined, has one or 2 'trolls who spout their usual grievances' I recognise from here.... Shame.
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True but you can just block them and the problem is solved
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 10 Mar 23 at 5:37pm
I don't see this as a 'failure of the forum' but far more a case that shows a further maturing of the way we all communicate on line. Like many of you, I too have other interests and follow other forums and although it is always a dodgy move to generalise, my take on the trends is that what was exciting a decade ago, still worked maybe 5 years past but now is 'old hat' - there are better and more immediate ways to get your viewpoints across.
But don't be fooled into thinking that this is IT.....already some of the social media sites are going into a Closed status...which when you look at it is more like a forum unless you include the anything goes mentality over at SA. If that's your thing then fine, but from what I see - trying to take that broader look across the piece, so many of the forums and social media sites are populated by yesterday's sailors - the really active ones of today are somewhere else yet again.
Of course, I'm speaking as one who has a dog in this fight! But as long as people keep liking the articles on the boats and people of yesteryear (spoiler alert - Hornets and Enterprise coming sometime soon) I can carry on worrying about the wood botherers for the foreseeable future. I do fear that when I hang up wetsuit, notebook and pencil to sail off into the sunset that the cause of some consideration (at the very least) for the wonderful heritage that underpins our sport will be weakened, but by then we'll all be sailing either roto-moulded lumps at one extreme or super-duper high tech flying machines at the other extreme and so no one will care! Dougaldog...somewhere on the Solent
------------- Dougal H
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 11 Mar 23 at 6:21am
Yes to most of the above. +1. It simply does not always function very well, throwing formatting all over the place and clouding any points you are trying to set out. +2. Has anyone mastered putting up images? I've tried a few times and got part way through the process to be stalled before completion. +3 As regards dinghies, which is what we are talking about, the parent magazine is hardly good value in paper form.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Mar 23 at 11:03am
I used to post a lot, but a move from lots of racing to spending a lot of time teaching meant the relevance wasn't really there any more. Couple that with fewer threads and an angry feel, and I drifted away. No idea if I was part of the problem, as the "same old faces" argument came up a lot. But when the "same old faces" stopped posting, no one else took over.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 11:32am
Rupert... I think in one short phrase you've defined the whole issue! You've 'moved on' - a situation that I think most of us on here can recognise and associate with. But it isn't just us as individuals that has moved on - I think the whole business of holding a position on a topic that you want to share/make public has changed. Just why this should be is a complex and tricky issue and not one I'm even going to look at for now.
Maybe the bigger issue is 'what is the forum for?' - what role did it play and now, should it play.
I can't answer that either...... maybe some on here might try, but I doubt if there will be any uniformity in the answers
D
------------- Dougal H
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 11:50am
Decline appears to directly link to iGRF refusing to post, due to being censored. My opinion from statistical analysis, shows the amount of influence he had, not saying he didn't need censoring on somethings.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 11:51am
Could it have something to do with repeating the same discussions?
TBH I find the SA discussions more considered … accepting that there is also a lot of trolling there
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by 423zero
Decline appears to directly link to iGRF refusing to post, due to being censored. My opinion from statistical analysis, shows the amount of influence he had, not saying he didn't need censoring on somethings. |
On the other hand, his presence was directly responsible for me (and I suspect others) for NOT posting. That and the relevance of this forum compared to colating all my interests and feeds into one or 2 social media sites.
The way we communicate online has moved in in any case. This forum has been left behind, sadly
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 12:16pm
Perhaps it's all been said and the deja vu has become overwhelming.
- - PY discussions - oh please not. it is what it is, deal with it
- - Here's a new class - just why, we have too many already, spreading everything to thin
- -I'm coming back to sailing, what boat should I get? The one best suited to you that gives class racing at a nearby club you feel comfortable at. Next.
- -Does the lee-bow effect exist? Like politics, no one ever changed their mind on this issue via an online forum. Spin a coin. Pick a side.
- - Rules questions; if you want a definitive answer, a chat forum is not the place to get the right answer. Top tip; foresee an issue on the water before it happens and avoid it
- - Anything to do with lasers/ILCAs rights. Rastagar's not someone anyone with a choice should do business with. World Sailing took the wrong side. The full story is too involved, no one should care, it's all history now
- - Lasers ruined my knees. No TT, sorry mate, but that was your hiking technique.
- - Are attendances down? Yes, money's tight, fuel is expensive, the 'missing generation' is impacting. But the RS200s Nats at HISC had 180+ boats. Millions of Fevas and Teras at 2022 RS games. So-slows, Merlins and Moths are hanging in there. So, mostly but not all bad news
- - iGRF expressed an opinion. Could he be right? He’s never been so far, bless him, so that will be a ‘no’ then
- - Why does the <expletive deleted> formatting still mess up here? The one crucial, unanswered question. Preview of this post had bullets. Does the posted version? Clearly not.
- - What's the best book for aspiring club sailors? Hmm, let me think. No, that’s an easy one
------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 12:25pm
But I do miss iGRF. It may not always have been intended the way but hilarity often ensued rather than nastiness.
Perhaps we need an iGRF's Greatest Hits thread. My favourite was that using foam sandwich in construction made the boat wider/longer so faster and the bubbles in the foam made it float higher
------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 12:25pm
iGRF posting caused posters not to post ? Probably , that's why they have come back in droves, WOW, traffic is burning up the ether.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by 423zero
Decline appears to directly link to xxx |
YYs refusal to moderate his accusations of corruption was responsible for at least some of the people involved with PY admin stopping posting on the forum. I'll post on other subjects, but not that, while I think some of my former colleagues (I'm no longer involved with PY) stopped completely. I don't know about the others, but I decided I didn't need that kind of BS in my life, and withdrawing from any participation in discussions on the subject seemed the best way to cope.
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Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 6:23pm
I see the same thing on a non-sailing sport forum. One (mainly) poster raising levels of toxicity….that one was going downhill until the addition of a ‘foe’ (ignore) button.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 6:56pm
Jimc, I always castigated iGRF for his probably illegal posts, illegal as in slander (is written slander ? ).Y&Y should have dealt with it.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 8:13pm
Unfortunately, he still continues to post BS. His recent post on The Pin End on FB about ILCA builders ‘adjusting’ their moulds to make their boats faster is utter BS and completely without foundation. I called him out publicly on the group even though I got a mild slap. He still continues to troll. Sorry, but he and his supporters are toxic to informed debate and contribute to the death of either forums or FB groups
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Chris_H
Unfortunately, he still continues to post BS. His recent post on The Pin End on FB about ILCA builders ‘adjusting’ their moulds to make their boats faster is utter BS and completely without foundation. I called him out publicly on the group even though I got a mild slap. He still continues to troll. Sorry, but he and his supporters are toxic to informed debate and contribute to the death of either forums or FB groups |
Totally agree . Luckily I don’t see his posts on the Pin End or anywhere else on fb as he blocked me
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 8:45pm
Speaking as one of his followers rather than supporter, toxic one liners from about half a dozen regular negative posters, who regularly managed to shut down flowing threads have done more harm.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 8:59pm
One advantage with 'The Pin end' is that a certain person can be completely blocked out of your life
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero
Speaking as one of his followers rather than supporter, toxic one liners from about half a dozen regular negative posters, who regularly managed to shut down flowing threads have done more harm. |
Really???
Whatever the viewpoint, and I have mine - the forum is done. See you on The Pin /Bitter End or whatever the flavour of the month will be. Last post of mine here. Bye all 👍👋🏿
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by NicolaJayne
One advantage with 'The Pin end' is that a certain person can be completely blocked out of your life |
Spot on .
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 12 Mar 23 at 11:25pm
Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 13 Mar 23 at 12:55pm
It is somewhat ironic that the best thread we have had on here for months is about the death of the forum .
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 13 Mar 23 at 1:00pm
Have you been edited ??? Just read your post about negative posters, now it's gone
Foe button could be useful, but, it could also spoil a debate. Major problem with it is seeing replies that don't make sense.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Mar 23 at 9:09am
"Lasers ruined my knees. No TT, sorry mate, but that was your hiking technique.”
But they still provided the best class racing in most clubs I have ever been a member of..... what a horrendous dilemma, huh? A gentle-person's sport conducted through an instrument of self flagellation for ruffians, oiks and misfits
I should know, I've had four of them over the years
I hope you are enjoying your sailing Clive, and for what it's worth, I always admired your flotilla approach to boat ownership.
It would be shame to see the forum wrap-up, but I think those who want to blame just one individual should probably have a better grasp of the internet before using it to condemn others
This forum predates so many things we take as standard now from our online experience... forums are one of the last bastions of free speech, be careful what you wish for and be careful who you blame, you might regret not have the option to post in relative anonymity one day.
I never always agreed with Grumpf, in fact I think my first interaction with the fella was recommending his next boat should be the Herald of Free Enterprise - that pre-dated the twin towers coming down.
I couldn't make that 'joke' now, far too many snowflakes....
Anyway, I had posted something on this thread before and decided to delete it, but Clive you bugger, dragged me back in
That's all for now - fair winds, fair seas, use straight legs, protect those knees!
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 14 Mar 23 at 10:06am
Originally posted by turnturtle
"Lasers ruined my knees. No TT, sorry mate, but that was your hiking technique.”
But they still provided the best class racing in most clubs I have ever been a member of..... what a horrendous dilemma, huh? A gentle-person's sport conducted through an instrument of self flagellation for ruffians, oiks and misfits
I should know, I've had four of them over the years
I hope you are enjoying your sailing Clive, and for what it's worth, I always admired your flotilla approach to boat ownership.
It would be shame to see the forum wrap-up, but I think those who want blame just one individual should probably have a better grasp of the internet before using it to condemn others
This forum predates so many things we take as standard now from our online experience... forums are one of the last bastions of free speech, be careful what you wish for and be careful who you blame, you might regret not have the option to post in relative anonymity one day.
I never always agreed with Grumpf, in fact I think my first interaction with the fella was recommending his next boat should be the Herald of Free Enterprise - that pre-dated the twin towers coming down.
I couldn't make that 'joke' now, far too many snowflakes....
Anyway, I had posted something on this thread before and decided to delete it, but Clive you bugger, dragged be back in
That's all for now - fair winds, fair seas, use straight legs, protect those knees! |
Sailed less in last 3m than for decades - but that's a result of a 3m tour of Australia, sadly ending next week. Still managed to sail the Aus RS100 nationals tho.
This year the flotilla includes a Merlin to go alongside the 100. If grumph could have got over his wood/clinker phobia he could have had a great time stopping the one-string raking control working, never mind the twin poles. It's bimbler's heaven. If only I could tack the blessed thing well.
I'll be continuing to post here if I have anything to say, the topic is interesting or there is a fun tease to be had. I suspect my event write-ups will continue as well although I cannot complete with Mr Bolland for entertainment value on that score.
------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 14 Mar 23 at 10:11am
I think how people use the internet since smartphones has just changed. Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and to a certain extent whatsapp are just so much better at holding retention.
I joined the pin end group. But not seen too much worth commenting on. And I guess if I don't engage soon then it will drop off my newsfeed and become another ghost group.
A forum is just so much better for sharing detailed discussion. But that's no use if you can't drive traffic to it, because you need users to create the content.
Once numbers drop some personalities become dominant. But I think that is more a symptom than a cause of the decline.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 14 Mar 23 at 11:32am
Forums are great for discussions and sharing information which doesn't go out of date. I'm on a couple of specialist forums where people are using the medium as more of an archive than a chat.
I think this forum has run out of time. It's also been scuppered by the way it's managed. 'Development' has little talk about actual development. But everyone goes there because it's top of the list. Most of us don't do development, we race ODs. The relevant discussions about actually sailing a race and the rules are buried in another section. But someone should be taking responsibility for the utterly incompentent set up where so many posts become gibberish due to formatting. People don't need that, it puts them off contributing. The other thing is, the rest of the Y&Y website isn't great either, too much 'news' about the latest range of handbags from 'brands' carrying the names of last century's sailors. Too little respect for mid fleet and 'bronze fleet' sailors, if you don't report everyone's results, don't expect 'everyone' to bother with your poxy website. CAs also have a hand in this to be fair.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 14 Mar 23 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by 423zero
Have you been edited ??? Just read your post about negative posters, now it's gone
Foe button could be useful, but, it could also spoil a debate. Major problem with it is seeing replies that don't make sense. |
No it’s fine , it was just a little self editing
You right the foe/ignore does sometimes spoil a debate a little but it does mean threads continue in some form with out being totally derailed by a troll/trolls.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 Mar 23 at 7:07am
People have lost their chuckle muscles, you never see people sent for a long wait or a can of striped paint anymore, it's probably bullying now
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 15 Mar 23 at 9:13am
Very true ,but I worked factories all my life so am old enough to remember apprentices being sent for a ‘long wait/weight ‘ and to be honest the people that did his were mostly A holes .
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Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 15 Mar 23 at 11:06am
[/QUOTE]
Sailed less in last 3m than for decades - but that's a result of a 3m tour of Australia, sadly ending next week. Still managed to sail the Aus RS100 nationals tho.
This year the flotilla includes a Merlin to go alongside the 100. If grumph could have got over his wood/clinker phobia he could have had a great time stopping the one-string raking control working, never mind the twin poles. It's bimbler's heaven. If only I could tack the blessed thing well.
I'll be continuing to post here if I have anything to say, the topic is interesting or there is a fun tease to be had. I suspect my event write-ups will continue as well although I cannot complete with Mr Bolland for entertainment value on that score. [/QUOTE]
You're too kind. The legendary Clive Eplett speaks again.
------------- Steve B
RS300 411
https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 15 Mar 23 at 3:58pm
I used to post a lot, this isn’t my first account.
Gave up because of the fruitless arguments I got drawn into with someone with their own brand of physics and mathematics that are not of this planet.
I still don’t know if they were just playing a game or genuinely believed what they were posting. Either way I eventually concluded it had become a pointless discussion.
Shame as there was a time when this forum thrived and I got a lot out of it.
Oh well. All the best.
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 16 Mar 23 at 8:26am
Just had a look at The Pin End on Facebook.
Seems it will suffer the same problems that occurred here.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 16 Mar 23 at 4:37pm
Not really a surprise is it .
Luckily for my blood pressure most of the ‘ normal suspects’ have been blocked by me on fb. So I don’t get to see those things. Sometimes Mrs Dakota will let me have a look at the ‘fun’ stuff if she thinks I will find it funny. Like the D-zero self bailer one
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Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 30 Mar 23 at 8:56am
Originally posted by 423zero
Decline appears to directly link to iGRF refusing to post, due to being censored. My opinion from statistical analysis, shows the amount of influence he had, not saying he didn't need censoring on somethings. |
If you believe that then the demise hasn't come a moment too soon. Your understanding of what has happened on here is close to zero Zero.
Personally I'm not keen on the modern social media format but one real benefit of the FB groups is the grassroots feel. Organised and administered by keen, ordinary sailors who do not claim to be experts, unpretentious, less elitist......Fingers crossed they stay that way.
regarding forums: Establishment organisations with commercial interest and institutionalised mindsets seem to be in decline thank goodness.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 30 Mar 23 at 3:16pm
A few years ago I was banned from a forum for pointing out the failure of a piece of expensive professional gear to perform as it should and, with several other users, nagging the manufacturer to fix the problem (it was a design fault causing it to drain it's LiIon battery in a few days when, supposedly, switched off). The forum was one run by the manufacturer of said equipment and they took exception to people politely asking for answers and a proper fix.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Mar 23 at 6:22pm
Sussex lad, I believe 'figures', lacking your 'insight' handicaps my opinion, however, please ignore my post and apologies for disturbing you.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 9:27am
Since the OP I've occasioned to look at the Y&Y'ing Facebook page. That is as far as I can see a complete waste of data space. As Prue Leith would say on BakeOff "not worth the calories".
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 9:54am
I don’t get why the animosity toward Y&Y and the forum. Just accept that times move on, our sport has an ageing demographic and probably the best we can do is make the most of the time that we have to make the most of the sport we enjoy. Don’t understand why anyone needs to be hostile.
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 10:10am
Apollogies to all if animosity was conveyed; my feelings are more inclined towards sadness and disappointment. I'm definitely a live and let live sort of bloke. It's only that a space to share common interests when the season, weather or other commitments prohibit actual participation in "doing sailing stuff".
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 10:13am
Do different, can't recall you ever coming across negative or antagonistic
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 11:55am
Davidyacht... Your comment "I don't get why the animosity toward Y&Y and the forum" is spot on! Whatever the situation over with the paper magazine (now all but swallowed up by Sailing Today) the Y&Y site works well to reflect not only the wider international scene which people follow from the site in their tens of thousands (the traffic stats for the AC, Vendee and other headline events make this very clear) but it is also the best coverage of the domestic scene. There's two points here - those classes that send in either naff reports or no report at all can hardly point the finger at the website and say that we're not reflecting what is happening around our clubs. Secondly, the old ways of doing reports, with "Smith takes Jones up the beat and loses it to Blogs along the reach" just doesn't cut it any longer - even in the virtual world you can see the eyes glazing over. So actually Davidyacht, I don't get it either! There's very little of the celebrity endorsement being presented, but those adverts that do feature pay the way not only for the site, but for the better quality content. The Times and Telegraph have both changed to paid access for most of their content, as dear old Rupert Murdoch said, if you want independent journalists then somehow they have to be paid for!
This is very dear to my own thinking. Be it with the history of dinghy development articles or the 'Wise Men' series the website provides a platform for a degree of 'depth of detail' in the articles that you wouldn't get elsewhere, as seen recently when what might otherwise have been a passing single paragraph obituary on Alec Stone become a fully-fledged piece with multiple pictures. If you don't want read in depth about Hornets, cat history (a multi-parter there) more on the radical minds behind dinghy development and the wider challenges that our sport has faced in the past - and how that relates to the future, then fine, no one is forcing you to. But the feedback says that there are far more people out there that DO want not just the hot topics of the day, but the thought provoking, detailed pieces so I guess their numbers will carry the day! Dougaldog.
------------- Dougal H
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 31 Mar 23 at 2:59pm
Agreed, the paper side for dinghy interest is not sufficient to justify the cover price if dinghies are your sole focus. The website does however carry some great articles with a range to cater for all tastes. Some interest groups do manage to maintain a civilised forum on FB without any sniping, point scoring or put downs, a shame that sailing under a heritage banner of Ys&Ying seems unable to do likewise.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 01 Apr 23 at 12:08am
I do miss the written press and the directness of the forum. But times move on and the magazine is gone and will never return . That does not mean the forum is dead , it just means it will never regain the numbers of hits it did a decade ago . It can still be useful to our sport if only as library of stored knowledge and for the few of us that are left to answer any questions in a balanced manner . Cycling forums still survive there is no reason why this one cannot too, if we want it too . . . I also appreciate the the articles on this web page as there is nothing like it in the uk on the web or even on fb.
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 01 Apr 23 at 12:11am
Originally posted by 423zero
Do different, can't recall you ever coming across negative or antagonistic |
+1
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Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 02 Apr 23 at 10:27am
Having been a subscriber to y&y Magazine for years I feel that Sailing today should remove the name from the cover. Bob Fisher and many other past writers would be horrified at the blue water cruising emphasis. I have come to the conclusion that if the boat testers set foot on a racing yacht it would scare them rigid never mind a racing dinghy. Andy Rice has even resorted writing about Yachts (OK it was Cape 31's which seem to be proper race boats). SSailing today is not worthy of the name Yachts and Yachting thank goodness for this website.
------------- Gordon
Phantom 1430
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Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 02 Apr 23 at 12:43pm
Gordon 1430, If you cast your mind back, when Dinghy Mag got swallowed up there used to be a star on the cover of Y&Y saying 'Includes Dinghy Mag' but that soon faded. But, in a way, that was never that important as the writing was well and truly 'writ large' upon the wall that the old ways of getting a story out there had long had their day. Speaking personally, I'd really felt the winds of change, as it was clear to me that my interests and style of presentation - which relies on a large number of pictures, could not longer be fitted into a print mag. I'd started with a target word count of 1500, this then shrunk to 1200, then 1000.... but all the time the articles were getting bigger! Today, with the web based Y&Y (a very separate entity to the paper mag) doesn't blink at 5,000 and 20 pictures.....
Davidyacht rather put his digit firmly on the problem, following his post I looked again at the earlier posts and I could one of those who has been content to let his writing run further than may have been needed ( it wasn't even iGRF, but maybe someone who thought that it was a way to act 'big') also commented on the Dinghy Show. It's only when you cast your net wider that the patterns become apparent: one comment about Farnborough was a gripe about wanting more cats there! Now, this makes you wonder, had the poster even been to the show. The Dart 18 was there, along with the Sprint 15, Hobies, Shearwaters (which won the concours)...collectively, I'd say that you had more than 3/4s of the regular, domestic multi-hull scene in attendance. As the saying goes, you can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time...but not all of the people all of the time. Given that the site is free to users at the point of entry, you really do wonder if that quote above should be changed to "but there are some people who you will never please - because maybe they know it all already" Right...new topics to be researching..Hornets anyone? Dougaldog
------------- Dougal H
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Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 02 Apr 23 at 5:40pm
I think the lack of moderation of some obvious trolling when the forum was thriving ultimately lead to its demise.
People only get bored and move on once, they don’t keep coming back to see if the contributors have changed.
Arguing the toss with a stranger who isn’t open to logical presentation of facts and who is a self appointed genius soon becomes tiresome.
It’s a shame as this used to be a great forum.
Despite the rise of social media there are still plenty of thriving forums. But not for dinghy sailing.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 02 Apr 23 at 5:55pm
I used to write for Dinghy Magazine, at least when they decided to call it Dinghy and Boardsailing, I got asked to write for it because the Editor a guy called Eric Twiname who I came to really like, pretty much knew I'd be controversial. I've always been that way, and anyone with a lick of publishing sense, knows that controversial sells mags/copies and these days generates 'clicks'. I did try and reason with whoever 'Mags' whatever he's called, the other guys also subject to the censorship all know him and the main protagonists for what shall we call it, 'Woke' seems as appropriate as anything, but to no avail so I don't post anything cntroversial, in fact don't much post at all, but I haven't 'flounced' per se, I'm still about but not as often, so you can't really blame me for the demise of this place. You can clearly see who to blame, they come on with nothing but negativity and if you don't actually feed them with something controversial at which to direct that energy then you get what you've got, dwindling interest. Now with dwindling interest that means fewer clicks, fewer clicks means less response to ads and the appearance of fewer readers. Nobody to buy books on 50 years of the Hornet or whatever dougaldog is up to next, or Clives tactical book. Now I know for sure it's not because folk aren't out there, the fact that, that Pin End fb group is closing on 1000 members in what two months since february when we all chipped in to set it up, proves they're still out there, but the sad fact is Y&Y doesn't any longer hold the appeal for the grass roots of racing dinghies that it once did. This forum was the best thing it had going for that sector, lots of positive things happened because of this forum. Had this forum not existed there would never have been the D Zero, and probably not the Aero either but for different reasons, so because a few who spend more time trying to confect offence at none sense, we all run the risk of losing what has been a force of good. Yes good, because if nobody complains however outrageously, you get no change and God knows the dinghy world is moribund enough. So, y'all should post more, it's all well and good getting shot of folk like me, but you have to step up and coming on here saying that what I might have said elsewhere (Which is fact) is bullsh*t without finding out first, aint going to cut it I fear. Better to ask why there are God knows how many laser builders and why they are being allowed to fiddle their moulds and why the Topper is now being made with polyethylene Bullsh*t get a discussion going then you might see some sort of return to discussion..
------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 02 Apr 23 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by 2547
I think the lack of moderation of some obvious trolling when the forum was thriving ultimately lead to its demise.
People only get bored and move on once, they don’t keep coming back to see if the contributors have changed.
Arguing the toss with a stranger who isn’t open to logical presentation of facts and who is a self appointed genius soon becomes tiresome.
It’s a shame as this used to be a great forum.
Despite the rise of social media there are still plenty of thriving forums. But not for dinghy sailing. |
+1
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Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 03 Apr 23 at 9:18am
The decline has been in progress for at least 18yrs that I know of, I initially joined in 2005-6. Yep, some members should have been moderated more severely.
On forums like this one the only form of intolerance that's constructive is an intolerance of intolerance. Generally speaking and in my experience those who have a hair up their a*se about freedom of speech do not understand the concept, their subsequent responsibilities or the inevitable consequences.......
............but I think the demise was gonna happen regardless, The world has changed.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Apr 23 at 2:01pm
Forum will be down and out when new members don't get the help or advice they seek, forum not all about chatting
Looks like iGRF is banned now anyway, tried to post for a couple of days, nothing appears.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 04 Apr 23 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by 423zero
Forum will be down and out when new members don't get the help or advice they seek, forum not all about chatting
Looks like iGRF is banned now anyway, tried to post for a couple of days, nothing appears. |
Very true .
Re iGRF . You already know my views
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 6:05am
Yes he blames you for it
------------- Robert
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 8:22am
Oh dear. He never was one to take responsibility for his own actions.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Dougaldog
Davidyacht...Your comment "I don't get why the animosity toward Y&Y and the forum" is spot on! Whatever the situation over with the paper magazine (now all but swallowed up by Sailing Today) the Y&Y site works well to reflect not only the wider international scene which people follow from the site in their tens of thousands (the traffic stats for the AC, Vendee and other headline events make this very clear) but it is also the best coverage of the domestic scene. There's two points here - those classes that send in either naff reports or no report at all can hardly point the finger at the website and say that we're not reflecting what is happening around our clubs. Secondly, the old ways of doing reports, with "Smith takes Jones up the beat and loses it to Blogs along the reach" just doesn't cut it any longer - even in the virtual world you can see the eyes glazing over. So actually Davidyacht, I don't get it either! There's very little of the celebrity endorsement being presented, but those adverts that do feature pay the way not only for the site, but for the better quality content. The Times and Telegraph have both changed to paid access for most of their content, as dear old Rupert Murdoch said, if you want independent journalists then somehow they have to be paid for!
This is very dear to my own thinking. Be it with the history of dinghy development articles or the 'Wise Men' series the website provides a platform for a degree of 'depth of detail' in the articles that you wouldn't get elsewhere, as seen recently when what might otherwise have been a passing single paragraph obituary on Alec Stone become a fully-fledged piece with multiple pictures. If you don't want read in depth about Hornets, cat history (a multi-parter there) more on the radical minds behind dinghy development and the wider challenges that our sport has faced in the past - and how that relates to the future, then fine, no one is forcing you to. But the feedback says that there are far more people out there that DO want not just the hot topics of the day, but the thought provoking, detailed pieces so I guess their numbers will carry the day! Dougaldog. |
Firstly, I've just looked at that in three different browsers and the presentation of it, in terms of spaces and paragraphs and all that, is frankly sub standard. I think that's a big problem with this forum, everything comes out messed up, so posts are best kept very short. MAybe that's why they become more curt, going on antagonistic?
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 10:13am
Secondly, you come across as congratulating yourselves, everything is brilliant, not our fault if the public don't engage. But if Y&Y wants to be the go-to place online for dinghy news, Y&Y has to persuade classes to engage. Somebody at Y&Y needs to earn their salary by making that happen. If Y&Y is happy being the google result for the AC and other pro events that get on telly, that's a conscious choise of market, or should be.
The mag and organisation has never really been all that great, face facts, we used to buy it for the 'for sale' pages. The website has lost that territory to ApolloDuck.
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 1:35pm
Back in the day I never missed an issue of Y&Y. I purchased it for 1) the for sale pages - now for free on class websites, or not for free on Apollo Duck 2) race reports -now on website, or results accessible on club websites 3) Straham Soanes (hope I spelt his name correctly) profiles, which made heroes out of dinghy sailors, in a way that is not achieved today 4) knowledgeable articles by the likes of Michael Mac 5) brilliant columns by Bob Fisher and Jack Knights Much though we would loved it, it is not possible to recreate these halcyon days … anymore than David Gilmour appearing on the same stage as Roger Waters
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 2:00pm
Not forgetting iGRF also wrote for them.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by davidyacht
Back in the day I never missed an issue of Y&Y. I purchased it for1) the for sale pages - now for free on class websites, or not for free on Apollo Duck 2) race reports -now on website, or results accessible on club websites 3) Straham Soanes (hope I spelt his name correctly) profiles, which made heroes out of dinghy sailors, in a way that is not achieved today 4) knowledgeable articles by the likes of Michael Mac 5) brilliant columns by Bob Fisher and Jack Knights Much though we would loved it, it is not possible to recreate these halcyon days … anymore than David Gilmour appearing on the same stage as Roger Waters |
Jack Knights died over 40 years ago.
One of the problems here is people banging on about 50 years ago.
Gilmour and Waters have been on stage together a couple of times this century. It's time to stop looking back to when Syd was in the band.
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by RS400atC
Originally posted by davidyacht
Back in the day I never missed an issue of Y&Y. I purchased it for1) the for sale pages - now for free on class websites, or not for free on Apollo Duck 2) race reports -now on website, or results accessible on club websites 3) Straham Soanes (hope I spelt his name correctly) profiles, which made heroes out of dinghy sailors, in a way that is not achieved today 4) knowledgeable articles by the likes of Michael Mac 5) brilliant columns by Bob Fisher and Jack Knights Much though we would loved it, it is not possible to recreate these halcyon days … anymore than David Gilmour appearing on the same stage as Roger Waters |
Jack Knights died over 40 years ago.
One of the problems here is people banging on about 50 years ago.
Gilmour and Waters have been on stage together a couple of times this century. It's time to stop looking back to when Syd was in the band.
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You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past”
------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 8:30pm
Its a thought though. I'd agree that back in the day reading the mag I cherry picked the articles for one that interested me, read the two top columnists,and then scanned the race reports for people I knew. Maybe the ads for boats I knew too, although that would hardly apply to Laser sailors! A substantial part of that content has gone on the web and isn't coming back.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 05 Apr 23 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by fab100
....
You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past” |
Seems more like miserably trying to drag everyone else back there?. If you want to live in the past, you're gone , the world has moved on.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 6:05am
There, in less than thirty words is what is wrong with this forum....
Edited to clarify, I was referring to the negativity of FAB' post, really none of his business what Davidyacht wants to post.
------------- Robert
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 6:21am
Originally posted by 423zero
There, in less than thirty words is what is wrong with this forum.... |
Disagree completely.
The fundamental problem is it stopped being a place where people wanted to hang out.
Nostalgia for the past is very big business, so I submit that can't be the root, especially as there's no great sign of nostalgic content.
I severely limited my participation due to lack of moderation of posts that made serious accusations, and I submit that's part of it, but I also blame the scorn that was too often heaped on entry level boats, and effectively their owners. If you come to a forum with your proud new possession, and the first thing that happens is people tell you what a fool you were to get it, what are you going to do? What you are not going to do is pay any attention to what the person who's just rubbished your choice has to say. I remember investigating clubs back in the 80s when I was campaigning my Cherub reasonably seriously, and walking into the most local club to be told I should sell it and get a whatever. Of course I said very little and walked straight out again.
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 6:36am
Exactly JimC. Lack of respect for other peoples choices and opinions has been a major problem. eg. Laser bashing, probably the most commonly sailed dinghy in the country. Also absolutely having to be right and going on and on for pages, disagree and let it go. I follow a FB group on "gravel biking" and that is kept thriving and happy by strict moderation of sneering and intolerance.
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 6:51am
I think even iGRFs worst trolling was nothing compared with the venomous posts that you see on some social media pages
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 7:01am
Y&Y magazine made heroes of some very good sailors, as a nipper I looked up to the likes of Spud Rowsell and Alec Stone, both reported on and profiled in Y&Y, this inspired many of us to engage with the sport of dinghy racing. Fortunately our sport allowed us to turn up on a start line to compete with our heroes, and occasionally, probably due to lucky shifts, one got to cross them on a tack now and again, this was all part of the package that encouraged me to engage with the sport for the next 50 years. So yes, happily living in the past, of which Y&Y was an important part.
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 7:10am
Originally posted by RS400atC
Originally posted by fab100
....
You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past” |
Seems more like miserably trying to drag everyone else back there?. If you want to live in the past, you're gone , the world has moved on.
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I am told that a forum is meant to replicate bar chat, and it is fair to say most chat involves staring into the bottom of a pint glass discussing how things were better back in the day.
I challenge you to list the positives that are leading to a growth in dinghy racing right now?
To offer a positive, last weekend I raced in a club race with sixteen other one design boats, the fleet including several former national and world champions, as high quality club racing as I have experienced. Sadly the boat was designed seventy years ago, and the average age of the helms was 65+ … we had a great time though … hence the strap line
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 7:34am
Originally posted by davidyacht
Originally posted by RS400atC
Originally posted by fab100
....
You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past” |
Seems more like miserably trying to drag everyone else back there?. If you want to live in the past, you're gone , the world has moved on.
|
I am told that a forum is meant to replicate bar chat, and it is fair to say most chat involves staring into the bottom of a pint glass discussing how things were better back in the day.
I challenge you to list the positives that are leading to a growth in dinghy racing right now?
To offer a positive, last weekend I raced in a club race with sixteen other one design boats, the fleet including several former national and world champions, as high quality club racing as I have experienced. Sadly the boat was designed seventy years ago, and the average age of the helms was 65+ … we had a great time though … hence the strap line |
Is this where we start quoting the four Yorkshiremen sketch? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE
------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 8:22am
Originally posted by davidyacht
Y&Y magazine made heroes of some very good sailors, as a nipper I looked up to the likes of Spud Rowsell and Alec Stone, both reported on and profiled in Y&Y, this inspired many of us to engage with the sport of dinghy racing. Fortunately our sport allowed us to turn up on a start line to compete with our heroes, and occasionally, probably due to lucky shifts, one got to cross them on a tack now and again, this was all part of the package that encouraged me to engage with the sport for the next 50 years. So yes, happily living in the past, of which Y&Y was an important part.
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For me this is one of the attractions of the Sailjuice Winter Series (aka Great Lakes), lining up on the start line and having an Olympian on one side and a multiple world champion on the other still makes me giggle!
------------- H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 8:25am
Originally posted by davidyacht
Originally posted by RS400atC
Originally posted by fab100
....
You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past” |
Seems more like miserably trying to drag everyone else back there?. If you want to live in the past, you're gone , the world has moved on.
|
I am told that a forum is meant to replicate bar chat, and it is fair to say most chat involves staring into the bottom of a pint glass discussing how things were better back in the day.
I challenge you to list the positives that are leading to a growth in dinghy racing right now?
To offer a positive, last weekend I raced in a club race with sixteen other one design boats, the fleet including several former national and world champions, as high quality club racing as I have experienced. Sadly the boat was designed seventy years ago, and the average age of the helms was 65+ … we had a great time though … hence the strap line |
Am working on my eventual move into the neighbourhood so that I can help reduce the average age David, although not by much! Might even have to buy a solo one day just to come play with you guys from across the estuary
------------- H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 9:33am
Originally posted by H2
Originally posted by davidyacht
Originally posted by RS400atC
Originally posted by fab100
....
You seemed to have missed the point that David’s footer is “happily living in the past” |
Seems more like miserably trying to drag everyone else back there?. If you want to live in the past, you're gone , the world has moved on.
|
I am told that a forum is meant to replicate bar chat, and it is fair to say most chat involves staring into the bottom of a pint glass discussing how things were better back in the day.
I challenge you to list the positives that are leading to a growth in dinghy racing right now?
To offer a positive, last weekend I raced in a club race with sixteen other one design boats, the fleet including several former national and world champions, as high quality club racing as I have experienced. Sadly the boat was designed seventy years ago, and the average age of the helms was 65+ … we had a great time though … hence the strap line |
Am working on my eventual move into the neighbourhood so that I can help reduce the average age David, although not by much! Might even have to buy a solo one day just to come play with you guys from across the estuary |
Not more competition
------------- Happily living in the past
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by davidyacht
I think even iGRFs worst trolling was nothing compared with the venomous posts that you see on some social media pages |
or even Sailing Anarchy at its height of having to moderate users calling each other paedophiles ... that apparently, was over the line.
Anyway, the forum is nostaligic in its own right, and the only other comment I can make is, H2, buy a Solo if there's an option for class racing, they're lovely boats imho, but keep the H2 too.... the way prices are going, most dinghies purchased >3 years ago will be an investment right now.
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 06 Apr 23 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by turnturtle
Originally posted by davidyacht
I think even iGRFs worst trolling was nothing compared with the venomous posts that you see on some social media pages |
or even Sailing Anarchy at its height of having to moderate users calling each other paedophiles ... that apparently, was over the line.
Anyway, the forum is nostaligic in its own right, and the only other comment I can make is, H2, buy a Solo if there's an option for class racing, they're lovely boats imho, but keep the H2 too.... the way prices are going, most dinghies purchased >3 years ago will be an investment right now. |
Thanks TT - I guess a solo happens to all of us given time, as I turn 50 this year I must be closer to ownership than I have ever been :-) but actually you are right, it would be fun to sail in the Salcombe solo fleet or perhaps the Yawl fleet but I will be keeping my H2 as well. Its too fun to sail and besides, everyone knows me by the colour of my boat!
------------- H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 09 Apr 23 at 9:10am
So the forum crashed for a good 12 hours because someone questioned the definition of sailing
------------- Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: Mark Aged 42
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 8:59am
This forum looks and feels like a 70s throwback, which is a pity because there are ways to update, without much cost. Its interesting that folk here have made reference to the "Clubs and Classes" section from years gone by. That was one of my favourites. Sailors are not coming to Y&Y, so Y&Y should go to the sailors. Why not embrace modern technology and turn up at a different club each week/fortnight, armed with a bunch of Go Pros and some video editing software? An amusing and informative (sounding a bit Cholmodely-Warner here!) video can be stitched together, showcasing the club, the water, the characters, the boats and the race(s). This will give the reconnection to the grass roots which was part of the Y&Y bedrock back in the day. Imagine the diverse settings and classes - one week the club is a Midland gravel pit, the next week is on the Norfolk Broads, then a South Coast mega club. then a Scottish estuary. This is the digital age - embrace it. I just said "back in the day", think I got away with it.
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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 9:38am
A lovely Idea Mark but the issue is where the money would come from, Advertising for the dinghy sector must be slim pickings, Rooster, Insurance but after the that the ‘Home Page’ is Yacht focused. Probably why Dinghy Magazine folded ‘back in the day’.
We are also a small be very diverse group with little synergy between: club Laser Sailor, Merlin Rocket sailor who does open meetings mainly and say an RS600. These people will go tho their tribe for information and report with little that actually unites us.
------------- Tink
https://tinkboats.com
http://proasail.blogspot.com
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Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 9:42am
It may look and feel like a throwback but it also sounds like a throwback.
Yachts and Yachting.....sounds exclusive. Sailing Today...... sounds more Inclusive.
Only a small point but one of many. How an organisation presents itself is so important particularly if it wants to have wider appeal. (Does the sport of sailing want wider appeal? Maybe not)
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Posted By: Dakota
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 12:05pm
Totally understand your point . It’s something my club addressed a few years . We used to be called Mid Warwickshire yacht club which as we are a small midlands reservoir club doesn’t describe what we do or even where we are . We are now called Leamington Spa Sailing Club. Which was decided sounded more inclusive and described what we do and where we are .
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Mark Aged 42
[---]This forum looks and feels like a 70s throwback, |
Quite an achievement when you think about it, considering when the technology was actually invented!
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 3:54pm
There was a brief period of "Dinghy Sailing" you want to get picky, why are we administered by the Royal Yachting Assoc?
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 7:36pm
Republican democratic secular humanist vegan pastime association. All welcome, honest, just turn up, we will find you something
------------- Robert
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Apr 23 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Do Different
why are we administered by the Royal Yachting Assoc? |
Mainly because the RYA doesn't want to keep changing names like IYRU/ISAF/World sailing... There wasn't really competitive racing in dinghies in Victorian times, so bigger boat sailing (yachts) was run by the Yacht Racing Association, while the only small boat racing was in sailing Canoes, and organised by the Royal Canoe club.
But also its picking a suitable word. The RYA is just as involved with cruising and motor craft as it is with sailing, and while motorised craft are described as sailing when they leave port it still feels as if using sailing would exclude to much, and boating just doesn't seem to sound serious enough to me!
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 11 Apr 23 at 5:22am
Doubtless you got that I'm slightly obtuse and often tongue in cheek. Yes it's historic and looking at other examples the Royal patronage doesn't hurt likely the most wealthy charities in the UK RNLI & RSPB. Yes, maybe Yachting does sound elitist but then having seen other major organisations attempt at rebranding to encompass all I'm often left with the feeling the the identity has been completely lost.
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Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 11 Apr 23 at 8:20am
Nice examples Do Different.
Neither the RNLI or RSPB are looking to attract customers/participants in quite the same way as a sport. Their objectives are very different.
And yes, it's very difficult to rebrand without losing momentum completely but it can be done. Changing a name for whatever reason? be interesting to see how the boat formerly known as the Laser does in the long term. afterthought: Royal warrants. Does anyone know which companies still have them? Do they make a big deal of it as they used to or do they relegate that piece of info to the small print on the back page. Commercial pressures dictate. They are better at knowing what the customer prefers, what image is most presentable and what makes most money. Even Royal Mail are changing their name. Blame it on Andy
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Apr 23 at 9:58am
They have changed the name of the holding company a couple of times in the last 25 years but the postal service still trades as 'Royal Mail'.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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