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tacking for an obstruction advice.

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13957
Printed Date: 26 Nov 22 at 9:14am
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Topic: tacking for an obstruction advice.
Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Subject: tacking for an obstruction advice.
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 10:02am



Replies:
Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 10:07am
Sorry that did not post 

question is. 

how far after calling for room to talk for an obstctuion does that call last.. 


boat a is sailing towards the island,.. there is weed in the area boat a calls -- tacking for an obstruction... boat b is further behined and to windward and does not need to give room as there is enough gap.. 

boat a completes tack sails a little. 

boat b now calls starboard  boat a slows down thinks hand on i can make that,, sheets in .... boat b has to avoid contact,.. boat a said he could not tack as he had just tacked for an obstuction. 

thank you again


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 11:29am
On hearing Boat A hail for room to tack, Boat B must EITHER

* Immediately hail 'You tack', and give B room to tack and avoid her, OR
* Tack as soon as possible

B must do one of these things. B doesn't get to argue the toss with A. If B thinks that A shouldn't have hailed because of the conditions in rule 20.1, her remedy is to comply and protest.

After B's hail of 'You tack' or when B tacks, A must then tack as soon as possible. If she doesn't, again B may protest.

If Boat A hailed for room to tack and then tacked without giving B time to respond, then A broke rule 20.2(a), and B may protest.

Supposing B misjudged that she would have no need to take any action, responded 'You tack', then saw that A was on a collision course, B is required to give A room to avoid her.

If there is room for A to tack back towards the obstruction and keep clear of B, then B has fulfilled her obligation to give room.

If, as in your case, A came out of her tack slowly and had room to avoid B, at slow speed, then sheeted in and sped up, she was given room when she was at low speed, and B has fulfilled her obligation.

Now, when B on stbs has to take avoiding action, A on port has failed to keep clear and has broken rule 10.

If, once A has passed head to wind as she tacks away from the obstruction, she is so close to the obstruction that there is insufficient room for her to avoid B by tacking back, then B has to find some other way of giving A room to avoid her, for example by luffing, slowing, or tacking herself.


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 11:53am
Thank you, Bass.
 appreciate your time.

What if when the hail for room there was no responce as boat b as b was so far away form A that B thought who is he calling for room from?

should have said (sorry was trying to get the first post our before a meeting)  the boats are very differnt in boat speed. boat a is a Phantom and boat B is a solo. (it might help with how fat they where apart)

thank you again.


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 12:08pm
Couple of cases will help.


Case 113 %20" rel="nofollow - https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/2108?page=12

Answer 1
Yes. When a boat that is not adjacent to the hailing boat has heard the hail, and will have to respond before the hailing boat is able to tack, she is a "hailed boat" in the context of rule 20.2 and she shall respond accordingly.

And generally, all of
Case 54 %20" rel="nofollow - https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/1775?page=6


If B actually does tangle with A, she's going to have a hard time convincing me she wasn't a 'hailed boat.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 12:22pm
If you have time its always good to review the various case books, which are basically worked examples, usually based on real protests.

For most of us they are too much to absorb at a sitting, but try looking up cases relevant to your problem.

https://assets.rya.org.uk/assetbank-rya-assets/action/directLinkImage?assetId=47809

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/CaseBookfor20212024withVersion2chgcorctnsand2022Supplement-[27838].pdf


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 12:41pm
Thank you ill look at them

I find it all rather fascinating.

So a hail for room. covers anyone within ear shot?

Sorry just looked, is the overlap important? eg does the boat need an overlap to call an obstuction

i dont think so...


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Nacnud_smada


Is the overlap important? eg does the boat need an overlap to call an obstuction
i dont think so...


He he,

Look at the answer from Case 113 I posted above.

What do you think 'adjacent' means?


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 1:20pm
Haha,
Yes that what triggered it. i think that mean yes and overlap is needed?

if so am i right in thinking there has to be an overlocker for all of this to kick in?


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Nacnud_smada

if so am i right in thinking there has to be an overlocker for all of this to kick in?


How did sailmakers get into this?

But seriously, no, read all of the text I posted. It's about when boats are not adjacent.


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 05 Jul 22 at 1:36pm
hahah, sorry trying todo to manythings.

Understood. will read on...


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 06 Jul 22 at 5:29am
Morning! Tongue

Had a little chat last night about all the infomation. and a few point got rasied which id like to add in the mix.

While boat A shouted tacking for x, he then sailed a on the new port take a good length of time/boat before the startboard shout was made. I would say that they where not adjacent. does that have any affect on rule 20?




Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 06 Jul 22 at 7:23am
Hi Duncan,

I think it's time for you to put your thinking cap on.

Does A say B broke rule 20, or any other rule? If so which subparagraph, and why?

Does B say A broke rule 20, or any other rule? If so which subparagraph, and why?


Posted By: Nacnud_smada
Date Posted: 06 Jul 22 at 8:37am
hahah thinking cap is on, i keep doing 720 in my head! its all got a bit blurred.


No rule break about rule 20.    but where rules 20 comes into it.. is boat a is sailing and tacks out of the way of an obstuction. no one needs to give him room.. he sales for a bit... boat be comes across hails startboard... Boat A slows then thinks hang on i can make it. sheets on. but does not make it.. B avoids..

. A then says i could could not tack as i had already tack for an obsuction... but he had already tacked to clear the obstuction...

what i wanted to ask in orgunally is one you tack for an obstuction when does that claim dissapear..

in my head this is just a standard rule 10




Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 06 Jul 22 at 9:42am
Rule 20, if it applies, is over and done with when the hailed boat either tacks, or having responded 'You tack', has given the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her.

You say neither boat allege that the other broke rule 20. Ok.

B, right of way on stbd tack needs to avoid A on port tack, and does so. A does not keep clear of B. A breaks rule 10.

Yes its just a straight up rule 10.

Is B saying that, somehow or other:
* she was not required to keep clear of A, OR
* she was entitled to be exonerated under rule 43 for failing to keep clear of A, OR
* A was obliged to do something to help B comply with the rules.

What is B saying and what rule does B think applies to support her?

And, BTW, in P/S cross, a boat is almost never 'forced' to tack to keep clear: it is almost always possible for her to duck, or start sheets, luff and slow, or stop.




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