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RS200 Nationals - Clubs

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
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Printed Date: 16 Aug 22 at 7:43am
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Topic: RS200 Nationals - Clubs
Posted By: A2Z
Subject: RS200 Nationals - Clubs
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 10:46am
I canít help noticing the number of top entrants representing Clapham Model YC. Is this a private joke or a means of getting round the need to be a member of a club?

Maybe Iíve lost my sense of humour in my old age, but either way it seems a bit disrespectful to the other competitors, the RYA and their actual home clubs (if they have one).



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 11:45am
Clapham Model YC is affiliated to the Model Yacht Association, which is recognised by the RYA, so I believe it would be legitimate for members of that club to enter events. As long as the boats are entered by someone who's a member of an affiliated club then the RYA have jurisdiction and the rules are satisfied.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 12:00pm
Model yachting very popular, ten years ago didn't know anyone who did it, I know half a dozen now.

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Robert


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 12:11pm
Bit disrespectful to the model boat club if they are not members?
Or maybe it's just a bit of fun and publicity for the model boat club.
One more wetsuit retailer not having my size and I'm going to seriously look into model boats!

There is no need to be a member of a club if you are an RYA member, or a member of a class association affiliated to the RYA or WS. I would assume the RS owners association is affiliated to the RYA?

In any case competitors are likely to have the status of temporary members of the organising club?

Some people have complex loyalties to more than one club and don't want to name one club.


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 12:18pm
Model boat clubs are very cheap compared to a traditional sailing club

So if you mainly do events and don't need boat storage they are an economic way of being 'qualified'


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by eric_c

Bit disrespectful to the model boat club if they are not members?

I don't suppose their subs are very expensive compared to a full on sailing club, so we can assume its genuine membership. If someone was to enter an event claiming to be a member of a club that in fact they were not then that would actually be rather serious misconduct.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 12:56pm
Just curious, but is there an actual purpose to require belonging to a club or the RYA for an event? I cant think of one that makes a material difference to the event so am asking out of genuine curiosity.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 1:10pm
Yes there is. I'm not sure of the fine detail, but AIUI it means that because you are a member of a club in a affiliation chain up to the RYA and World Sailing you have accepted that those bodies have jurisdiction over you in a way that they don't for random members of the public.


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

Just curious, but is there an actual purpose to require belonging to a club or the RYA for an event? I cant think of one that makes a material difference to the event so am asking out of genuine curiosity.


World Sailing can only write rules which apply to its members and affiliates, they have no jurisdiction over people who are not members.
In the limit, if someone was racing and was not affiliated, interactions between boats would be controlled by colregs not the rules according to WS.
It's like the FA can't tell people how to play Rugby or American 'football'.
On another level, if you don't buy into the rules and organsation framework, you're not entitled to benefit from it.

It's often a moot point, because the class association is an affiliated body and the event is only open to association members.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by eric_c

It's often a moot point, because the class association is an affiliated body and the event is only open to association members.

Exactly. Oh well, just curious



Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 4:27pm
Jim C,

You once again have hit nail firmly on head!

This is yet another of those urban myths that have sprung up over the years about racing and who can tell you what.

If you enter a race, then to do so you have to accept a number of pre-conditions, eg Insurance and membership of  an affiliated club. Once you have entered, then you are bound by the RRS (plus or minus any local changes). Where it gets trickier is when people rock up on a start line when they haven't entered. But if you enter a race then you are bound by whatever provisions apply to that event, with this principle being enshrined in law, going back to the late 1890s (I can't claim to have covered the event in question but I did research this fully for an article that was done some years back).

What happened was there was a Port and Starboard and sadly, a crew member on the RoW boat lost his life. The owner of the Port Hand boat then tried to claim that he was only required to settle on the basis of the basics of Col Regs/commercial shipping values.  It was fought through the courts, all the way to the Appeal Court in the end, where it was decided that once you enter a race, you have agreed to a contractual obligation to comply  with the rules. This has underpinned our sport ever since!

Dougal


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Dougal H


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 5:31pm
Sad times when we automatically assume the worst, hopefully they are genuine members, a group of friends will tend to try each other's pastimes.
Membership at Bournville model yacht club is £76, new members also have to pay a £10 joining fee, club is affiliated to RYA and MYA. Just an example of a model yacht club fees, been unable to access Claphams fee structure.

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Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by JimC

Clapham Model YC is affiliated to the Model Yacht Association, which is recognised by the RYA, so I believe it would be legitimate for members of that club to enter events. As long as the boats are entered by someone who's a member of an affiliated club then the RYA have jurisdiction and the rules are satisfied.

Yes, but they clearly donít sail their 200s there. I realise this may be a cheap way of exploiting a loophole but hardly in the spirit of things.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 19 Aug 21 at 9:56pm
Or maybe they are a group of friends you used to sail together and are now spread around the country, who sail under a club name that means something to them all when they get together? I have no idea about this example, but know of this in several classes. Often it's ex university friends.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 5:52am
Or it might just be a bad joke about one pond inside the M25 being much like another?


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 6:07am
Originally posted by Rupert

Or maybe they are a group of friends you used to sail together and are now spread around the country, who sail under a club name that means something to them all when they get together? I have no idea about this example, but know of this in several classes. Often it's ex university friends.

There were some clubs, fully paid up RYA affiliation, which only existed on paper, for the purposes of entering Team Racing events, Southport 24 Hr Race and other events. I wonder how many of those are still around?
There are 'Yacht Clubs' which are not buildings but groups of people who charter yachts.
If there's a few of you, it's probably cheaper to affiliate MOBYC to the RYA than to join the RYA as individuals.
But some proper sailing clubs are pretty cheap to join.


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 7:06am
Would have been handy for the Windmill on a Thursday night back in the day 

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Happily living in the past


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 9:02am
Originally posted by A2Z

Yes, but they clearly donít sail their 200s there. I realise this may be a cheap way of exploiting a loophole but hardly in the spirit of things.

No loophole, no spirit of things. The rule requiring affiliated club membership is there for a specific reason as stated above. Its absolutely nothing to do with the actual boats. If there were a requirement to actually sail at one's nominal home club the majority of the Olympic team and half the country's keen circuit sailors would be in trouble.


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 11:29am
Compare with the Merlins and Scorpions. There are several Olympians and squaddies (inc recent good medalist Stu Bithell) at their nationals but they all list an actual dinghy sailing club.

It seems childish to me to list a model yacht club as your home club, but then it is largely a student class so perhaps not surprising. Shades of shake yer beans from a few years back.

Having said all that I see an entry is listed from my club and I donít recognise the name at all!

No doubting the quality of the field though. Bit of a shame it clashes with the two other hiking classes as Iím sure thereís a few who have had to pick one over the other.


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Aug 21 at 12:44pm
Does the club on the results sheet have to be the club that satisfies rule 75?

I.e. as long s you are a member of the RYA or a club affiliated, then that satisfies the rule and you can have whatever you like on the results sheet? 

The 200s have quite a competitive top club trophy. NoR says your club is just whatever you put first on your entry form. No reference to rule 75.  

So, probably a group of friends who wanted to competed for the top club trophy and all agreed a random club to put down. Who knows, they could actually be members too.

Anyway, HISC still won. 


Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 21 Aug 21 at 9:23am
How come you weren't there, Tom?


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Aug 21 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Mozzy

...all agreed a random club to put down. Who knows, they could actually be members too.

I trust they are all members.
Because if a bunch of people put down a club name they were not members of, with a view to competing for a prize that they would otherwise not be able to compete for, then there's an unpleasant word for that.



Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 21 Aug 21 at 11:27am
Originally posted by jaydub

How come you weren't there, Tom?
We get really good competition at the club so I just don't get the itch to travel. We're a bit spoilt really so haven't done any open sailing since about 2014 (except opens at HISC). 

Also, the 200 is something me and the wife have as a shared interest. We've been lucky enough to be decent and get some good results and it's always tempting to enter a nationals and really push that extra bit... which then sucks the fun out of it. 

I do get a bit of fomo as the event happens each year and seriously considered it this time... but then I changed jobs and no longer had the leave.

I think the nationals are at Hayling next year, so I'll certainly support that.




Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 22 Aug 21 at 4:57pm
They definitely are not members. Bit of harmless banter


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 Aug 21 at 6:15pm
Hardly harmless banter if they have filled in official documents.

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Robert


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 6:02am
If not members, then I guess the best people to judge if harmless banter or not are the genuine members of the club. A complaint from them to the RYA could lead to a rule 2 hearing.


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Andymac

If not members, then I guess the best people to judge if harmless banter or not are the genuine members of the club. A complaint from them to the RYA could lead to a rule 2 hearing.


Plenty of keyboard sailors on here who can be offended on their behalf it seems!


was the Royal DNBYC ever a properly affiliated club?
Thread drift, but maybe these days more people will want clubs without the clubhouse full of ex-sailors sharing their germs?


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 9:07am
The majority of clubs would not survive if they did not have membership receipts and just had the fees from events or training.

At least if sailors enter as " rya" others are aware that they are not supporting a club and are purely " circuit" sailors

I don't think that entering from a club that doesn't sail dinghies or even doesn't exist is acceptable


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 10:13am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I don't think that entering from a club that doesn't sail dinghies or even doesn't exist is acceptable

Perhaps a bit strong. There are two threads to this.

The first is that in RRS the entry is required to be from a member of an affiliated club or National Authority. That is not up for dispute and there are very sound reasons for the rule. I'm not sure the club in question actually must be mentioned on the entry form, but its probably good manners to do so. There's certainly no requirement that the club should sail dinghies in the RRS. If a member of the Royal Yacht Squadron wants to race in a Laser Open meeting at my club they'd be very welcome.

The second is putting down a club name for a team prize. If the club is a real club, and the people putting down the name are not members then firstly its traditionally been considered a serious breach of good manners to claim membership of a club when you are not a member, and secondly its a false statement on an official form. That must be misconduct territory.
However if a bunch of sailors decide they are going to form "Junction 9 on the M25 Sailing Club" with membership restricted to themselves and no membership fees, then why not? They need to be members of affiliated clubs as well in order to enter, but I see nothing in the RRS about how long a club is supposed to have been in existence, or that it should have bricks and mortar. Mercury Bay Boating Club famously didn't have any premises when they challenged for the America's Cup! It might be that a Notice of Race or SIs puts limits on this but I glanced at an old RS200 Champs SIs and saw nothing like that.


Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 10:18am
Oh common this is getting ridiculous. Doesn't affect the results, most are probably members of a real club, who cares!


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 10:37am
Clubs have had a hard 2 years. 

I think anything- however gentle- that encourages sailor to join  a club is good


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 10:51am
Originally posted by eric_c


Originally posted by Andymac

If not members, then I guess the best people to judge if harmless banter or not are the genuine members of the club. A complaint from them to the RYA could lead to a rule 2 hearing.
Plenty of keyboard sailors on here who can be offended on their behalf it seems!


Quite the opposite if you read my words carefully!


Posted By: Andymac
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 11:03am
As JimC says...

Incidentally, apart from being a part time 'keyboard sailor', I am member of a small friendly inland sailing club where I sail my Laser (ILCA) regularly when I am not doing open meetings sailing under their banner.
I have also recently started sailing a Dart 18 on the circuit under their banner even though I have never sailed it there or ever likely to since the water is unsuitable.

Wouldn't it be great to see a model yacht club become a challenger for the Americas Cup? Shades of the films 'Flight of the Pheonix' and 'Cool Running' put together!


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Andymac

As JimC says...

Incidentally, apart from being a part time 'keyboard sailor', I am member of a small friendly inland sailing club where I sail my Laser (ILCA) regularly when I am not doing open meetings sailing under their banner.
I have also recently started sailing a Dart 18 on the circuit under their banner even though I have never sailed it there or ever likely to since the water is unsuitable.

Wouldn't it be great to see a model yacht club become a challenger for the Americas Cup? Shades of the films 'Flight of the Pheonix' and 'Cool Running' put together!

With the Df65 and 95 model yachts being available at sensible price, my sailing club is joined by many other full sized clubs racing them. Model yacht racing is not just small ponds nowadays- and a great excuse to get out there in a mid winter storm


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:03pm
I am not offended by the alleged infringement, just a discussion between members who have run races, they are difficult enough without some knob thinking it's amusing to put any old crap down. I will continue taking part in this discussion regardless of whether certain posters think its anal, don't read if it offends you.

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Robert


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

I don't think that entering from a club that doesn't sail dinghies or even doesn't exist is acceptable

Perhaps a bit strong. There are two threads to this.

The first is that in RRS the entry is required to be from a member of an affiliated club or National Authority. That is not up for dispute and there are very sound reasons for the rule. I'm not sure the club in question actually must be mentioned on the entry form, but its probably good manners to do so. There's certainly no requirement that the club should sail dinghies in the RRS. If a member of the Royal Yacht Squadron wants to race in a Laser Open meeting at my club they'd be very welcome. .....


If it's an ILCA open meeting, there would be no requirement to be a member of a club, as you'd be required to be a member of the class association?

Reading the actual rules and talking about their requirements accurately might help some people.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by eric_c

as you'd be required to be a member of the class association

Not at an open meeting IME.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by eric_c


was the Royal DNBYC ever a properly affiliated club?


Not sure but they've got a FB page.. https://www.facebook.com/Royal-Dirty-Northern-b**tards-Yacht-Club-323187757720407/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/Royal-Dirty-Northern-b**tards-Yacht-Club-323187757720407/

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 1:00pm
When I was young we were all members of "Stoney-bridge Corinthians" and used to put it down as our club. As far as I know the club never existed, it was just a bit of fun that we giggled about at the bar. I cannot even recall why it was funny; we were students. We were all members of real clubs and until I read this post, I never imagined that anyone would even give the slightest bit of a damn. But hey, looks like I was wrong, people do get upset about the weirdest stuff.

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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by H2

When I was young we were all members of "Stoney-bridge Corinthians"

Stoneybridge Corinthian Yacht Club came out of a few Scottish sailors who travelled down south to sail more than they sailed at home at the time. Stoneybridge was a reference to the Absolutely comedy show on C4. The Corinthian Yacht Club bit was some gentle mocking of some higher class YCs from lowly dinghy sailors from small clubs.

 [TUBE]https://youtu.be/cTsvLjAzozE[/TUBE] 

Some people got worked up about it but a lot of fuss over what was a bit of harmless fun IMO.


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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by H2

When I was young we were all members of "Stoney-bridge Corinthians" and used to put it down as our club. As far as I know the club never existed,

AFAICS if you agreed you were all members then it existed. I don't believe there's any law that says clubs have to be registered somewhere. Don't most clubs start with people at a bar?

What I would have a problem with would be people claiming to be members of a club when they are not, be it Lower Snoring Tiddlywinks Club or the Royal Yacht Squadron.



Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by KazRob

Originally posted by H2

When I was young we were all members of "Stoney-bridge Corinthians"

Stoneybridge Corinthian Yacht Club came out of a few Scottish sailors who travelled down south to sail more than they sailed at home at the time. Stoneybridge was a reference to the Absolutely comedy show on C4. The Corinthian Yacht Club bit was some gentle mocking of some higher class YCs from lowly dinghy sailors from small clubs.

 [TUBE]https://youtu.be/cTsvLjAzozE[/TUBE] 

Some people got worked up about it but a lot of fuss over what was a bit of harmless fun IMO.

Well that makes sense - I was at Edinburgh and spent way too much time with the various members of the Scottish Uni team racing teams from across the various Scottish Unis!


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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082


Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 23 Aug 21 at 3:24pm
In the past we had two sailors who always put down Lee on Solent SC until we wrote to them asking for their membership.
They had never been members to my knowledge and frankly we thought it was rude.


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Gordon
Phantom 1430


Posted By: Sailerf
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 7:34am
As a member of an affiliated class association to the Rya there is no further requirement to be a member of a sailing club. Why can we not just be happy people are turning up and supporting events, there appear to be some very sad lonely individuals on this forum.   


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 12:00pm
Off to find some friends

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Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Sailerf

As a member of an affiliated class association to the Rya there is no further requirement to be a member of a sailing club. Why can we not just be happy people are turning up and supporting events, there appear to be some very sad lonely individuals on this forum.   
Sad lonely individuals for wondering whether all these 200 sailors are actually members of a model yacht club? Sad for wondering whether any of them are members of an actual dinghy sailing club? 
To me it is sad and lonely (and immature) not to be, not to want to be, or not to want to admit to be, a member of a 200 club if you race 200 competitively.

Also looking through Clapham Model YCís results these hot shot 200 sailors are crap model yachters.  None of them seem to have placed a result in the last few years of races. 


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Sailerf

As a member of an affiliated class association to the Rya there is no further requirement to be a member of a sailing club. Why can we not just be happy people are turning up and supporting events, there appear to be some very sad lonely individuals on this forum.   

With my pedant hat on, which class associations are affiliated other than RYA and WS administered classes?

(I am also a supporter of club membership, I think the proliferation on no-club nomads is very unhealthy for the sport. Unfortunately money talks and the proliferation of open winter sailing is negating the need for a club base - something we may well rue in years to come. I don't blame the people, it suits their needs. I blame the sport for making it possible.)


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 10:15pm
A CA needs to be RYA affiliated to exhibit at the dinghy show. Its not very expensive, the vast majority are.


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 24 Aug 21 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by JimC

A CA needs to be RYA affiliated to exhibit at the dinghy show. Its not very expensive, the vast majority are.


Do you remember the spat between the 505 boys and the RYA on that subject when RS were treated as a 'class assocaition' before having sold any boats? Happy Daze......



Posted By: robin34024
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 6:39am
Thats because they're obviously not members there.

I think its a good laugh personally. They're highlighting an archaic and outdated requirement, and having fun whilst doing it. After all, what reason would someone who's at uni, skint, and only sails on the circuit have to join a sailing club?


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 7:59am
Originally posted by robin34024

Thats because they're obviously not members there.

I think its a good laugh personally. They're highlighting an archaic and outdated requirement, and having fun whilst doing it. After all, what reason would someone who's at uni, skint, and only sails on the circuit have to join a sailing club?


Boom! Market forces. For those outraged cos people arenít supporting clubsÖ..itís a buyerís marketÖ.

Same as the flawed notion of giving the Juniors back to the Club from squadsÖ:only works if the clubs have a viable logger for them.


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 8:16am
Skint?! You donít know the meaning of the word if you think having the newest boat in the fleet qualifies. Or any boat for that matter.


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 8:24am
I think the point is that the cost of entry to most events does not cover the true cost of running it. The sport is reliant on give and take and a huge volunteer work force. If pay and play is the future the cost per session will need to be vastly higher. Why should I take the time to man a rescue boat for a weekend, write SIís, repair the radio, arrange the organisation committeeís insurance and make sure the bar is stocked if you wonít do the same in return or you wonít cover the cost of my time? Please donít tell me you are gracing me with your presence


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 9:00am
Robin, you don't have to be a member of a club, you can just be a RYA member/affiliated.
Issue being highlighted is the lack of respect for volunteer team who are giving up their free time to organise the race.

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Robert


Posted By: robin34024
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 9:50am
Originally posted by A2Z

Skint?! You donít know the meaning of the word if you think having the newest boat in the fleet qualifies. Or any boat for that matter.


These guys aren't exactly tin pot sailors, at least one is a BST member.

Reckon they'd have any issues finding a boat to borrow, or using a sponsors boat?


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 9:50am
Originally posted by A2Z

I think the point is that the cost of entry to most events does not cover the true cost of running it. The sport is reliant on give and take and a huge volunteer work force. If pay and play is the future the cost per session will need to be vastly higher. Why should I take the time to man a rescue boat for a weekend, write SIís, repair the radio, arrange the organisation committeeís insurance and make sure the bar is stocked if you wonít do the same in return or you wonít cover the cost of my time? Please donít tell me you are gracing me with your presence



I've known an awful lot of club events such as opens where it's been a lot easier to drum up a few more volunteers than a few more paying competitors. The best  reason to get involved with running events at a club is because you enjoy getting involved and think its worthwhile. A lot of people who used to go to a lot of events now spend more time organising events. No doubt some of todays circuit sailors will do the same in future years. I don't believe there is a real problem of 'circuit sailors' who don't belong to any club taking more from the system than they put back, averaged over their lifetime/sailing career. The cost of entry for many events is only justified by the value added by the other competitors. The facilities, sailing area and race management are often no better than what people have already paid for at their home club. It's usually racing in a good size OD fleet which makes paying for an event worthwhile. If you're going to resent a few competitors not being a club member for a short period in their lives, you're probably shooting yourself in the foot. I say that as someone who's been a member of several sailing clubs, usually more than one at a time as I've moved through life.


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 9:53am
Itís just a storm in a tea cup . Itís just a group of friends having a laugh. 
I would lay money on everyone of them being members of Rya clubs or are individual members of the RYA.
Just look at the names , some of them are part of our national sailing set up, I would lay money on them being members of the RYA LOL


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 10:18am
Originally posted by robin34024

Thats because they're obviously not members there.
They're highlighting an archaic and outdated requirement,

Being affiliated to the sport's governing body so that they have jurisdiction over you for rules purposes? If thats outdated lets field a rugby team at a football match.

Originally posted by robin34024 After all, what reason would someone who's at uni, skint, and only sails on the circuit have to join a sailing club?[/quote



Being skint, at uni and sailing on the circuit are mutually exclusive. If you cant afford to join a club you would probably struggle pay for transport.

And as for not needing to join a club, what would you do if all the clubs stopped running them because no-one from within attends the opens? I know many classes that have lost events due to that, especially at smaller clubs. Support for the sport begins at home.

As I say I dont particularly blame the people who do it, but I do regret that is is possible and deemed acceptable.


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 1:21pm
Isn't everyone in a Uni Sailing Club a 'block member' of an affiliated club, and a member of BUSA? I assume BUSA is affiliated to the RYA?   The only person I know who's sailed opens while not actually having a home club was 'between clubs' due to a house and job relocation. I've known at least one person enter as 'RYA' despite being a member of at least one club. There could be several reasons for that. Like it's short and unambiguous. You could get fed up with being attributed to the wrong BSC or something? People seem quite keen to read the worst nto other people's actions on zero evidence. As for students being skint and going sailing, you make your choices about borrowing money, it's all debt these days unlike my cohort topping up their grant with a bit of debt to run cars, boats, motorbikes etc. Merely being 'skint' as in having zero money would be a luxury for those with a lot of negative money.


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 2:43pm
Spot on 


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 2:59pm
After reading all the  reasons for belonging to a club, I am siding with the view that belonging to a club is a little out-dated. Fine if you want to, but equally fine if there is no benefit to doing so if all you do is the circuit  The NoR and SI's amendments can cater for abiding with the RRS. 

I remember back in the day of the Laser 2 circuit, with Delsey/Freisenet sponsorship, where round-the-circuit racing took part on many weekends, and belonging to my local club was, in reality, a waste of money as I didnt use the club or its facilities for much of the time.

I respect the views of others who think otherwiase, but those have not really given a convincing reason as to why to continue to belong to a club if it doesnt really benefit you.

Still, most DO belong to a club, so its not really an issue overall to get worked up about ;-)


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 3:08pm
Having said the above, the club I belong to adds enormous value to me and my sailing and social enjoyment and is the best club I have ever been a member of, so no reason for me not to keep my dues paid 😉


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by eric_c

As for students being skint and going sailing, you make your choices about borrowing money, it's all debt these days unlike my cohort topping up their grant with a bit of debt to run cars, boats, motorbikes etc. Merely being 'skint' as in having zero money would be a luxury for those with a lot of negative money.

Not a bad argument.

But please tell me how £45 for an rya membership or £60max for a student membership at an actual club will make any odds. £180 over three years.


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by eric_c

As for students being skint and going sailing, you make your choices about borrowing money, it's all debt these days unlike my cohort topping up their grant with a bit of debt to run cars, boats, motorbikes etc. Merely being 'skint' as in having zero money would be a luxury for those with a lot of negative money.

Not a bad argument.

But please tell me how £45 for an rya membership or £60max for a student membership at an actual club will make any odds. £180 over three years.
I don't think we disagree much.
Looking back, I wasted a lot of opportunities in my student years, blowing a few more hundred then would have made little difference in the long run and would have given me experience which cost a lot more later or I never got back to.
OTOH  180 quid would easily get swallowed elsewhere.

Some people leave their 'home' club as students because they are not there to do duties, clubs and circumstances vary. Some people don't sail much in their student years, a lot of other things to do.
I doubt there are many clubless student open meeting sailors out there though. Maybe one or two from euroland? Anyone care to point the finger at a real life example?

When it comes to the point of being bound by the rules, some people who've been members for 50 years seem to have more tendency to revert to colregs, Solo sailors shouting 'overtaking boat keep clear' springs to mind.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by eric_c

Some people leave their 'home' club as students

Many if not most clubs have country, social or or distance type membership options which are typically much cheaper than even student memberships, don't allow sailing and don't require duties either but do provide the required chain of authority to comply with RRS.


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 21 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by eric_c


I don't think we disagree much.
Looking back, I wasted a lot of opportunities in my student years, blowing a few more hundred then would have made little difference in the long run and would have given me experience which cost a lot more later or I never got back to.
OTOH  180 quid would easily get swallowed elsewhere.

Some people leave their 'home' club as students because they are not there to do duties, clubs and circumstances vary. Some people don't sail much in their student years, a lot of other things to do.
I doubt there are many clubless student open meeting sailors out there though. Maybe one or two from euroland? Anyone care to point the finger at a real life example?

When it comes to the point of being bound by the rules, some people who've been members for 50 years seem to have more tendency to revert to colregs, Solo sailors shouting 'overtaking boat keep clear' springs to mind.

I don't think we do either.

As a Uni student at a uni that doesn't sail much/team racing isn't your thing the reduced student membership rate - at the right club - is probably the best value sailing you can get. Cant afford a boat? Crew for someone! If you're any good you'll quickly find your way into a good boat and could learn a lot. I wonder how many circuit sailors would club race more if they could get a better "club" crew (A vicious circle as so many now have solos as second boats - I know I do)


Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 26 Aug 21 at 8:47am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by eric_c

Some people leave their 'home' club as students

Many if not most clubs have country, social or or distance type membership options which are typically much cheaper than even student memberships, don't allow sailing and don't require duties either but do provide the required chain of authority to comply with RRS.


There are many real solutions to the imaginary problem.



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