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1st October - sports clubs

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Printed Date: 25 Nov 20 at 12:01am
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Topic: 1st October - sports clubs
Posted By: turnturtle
Subject: 1st October - sports clubs
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 11:44am
Did Boris just say all sports clubs to shut from 1st October?



Replies:
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 12:47pm
seen this on it

The rule of six will apply to all adult indoor team sports, Mr Johnson told MPs today.

He added: “The spread of the virus is now affecting our ability to reopen business conferences, exhibitions and large sporting events, so we will not be able to do this from 1st October and I recognise the implications for our sports clubs which are the life and soul of our communities.”

Breaking the rules will lead to a fine of £200 for the first offence - double the original penalty.



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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Did Boris just say all sports clubs to shut from 1st October?


No, he didn't. 

The exemption for indoor sports will be removed, so no indoor 5-aside. Could still play tennis though, I guess. Either way, not relevant for sailing. That's on Monday, 28th though. 

The plan to return fans to stadiums on 1sy of October has been halted, maybe that's where you heard 1st of October.

Seems like no change for sailing.

Inside the club house if you have a bar / restaurant then there will be some changes there from Thursday. 


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 2:25pm
Yep, Maxi has the transcript .... I hope he's referring to spectator stadium events


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 3:21pm
I think I heard it as the sports club was referring to the postponement of the re-opening of larger venues, such as football stadia. 

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 7:37pm
Anyone managed to work out new rules for sport in general and sailing in particular, from Thursday?

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Robert


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Anyone managed to work out new rules for sport in general and sailing in particular, from Thursday?


Pro sport can carry on, for reasons unknown, but presumably because Boris has shares in Betfred. I think the rest of us are stuffed.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by 423zero

Anyone managed to work out new rules for sport in general and sailing in particular, from Thursday?


Pro sport can carry on, for reasons unknown, but presumably because Boris has shares in Betfred. I think the rest of us are stuffed.

Sounds like I might have to pay each of my potential competitors £1 per race to make them professionals then. And get one of them to pay me £1.

I went along with the no-sailing nonsense in the spring, but I'm feeling really rebellious this time



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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 10:42pm
But we can still exercise outdoors and travel to exercise, while discouraged, is not banned?

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


But we can still exercise outdoors and travel to exercise, while discouraged, is not banned?



Can we travel to exercise? That's not how I read it. Happy to be wrong though.



Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 11:30pm
Closed facilities

sports facilities including swimming pools, golf courses and driving ranges, dance studios, stables and riding centres, soft play facilities, climbing walls and climbing centres, archery and shooting ranges, water and theme parks,


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 Oct 20 at 11:46pm
This is supposed to become 'endemic'?

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Robert


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 01 Nov 20 at 12:25am
The devil is in the detail. We have to wait to see the law going though parliament and then wait for the RYA advice. We will all know by Tuesday , one way or the other . 


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 01 Nov 20 at 12:31am
Originally posted by 423zero

This is supposed to become 'endemic'?

Very true. That’s what the experts have been telling us from the start. It’s not going away ever. To believe anything different is just self delusion. We have to learn/ find ways  to live with it . Fingers crossed we get a vaccine that is effective. 


Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 01 Nov 20 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by 423zero

This is supposed to become 'endemic'?


hence the work on vaccines  etc and treatment modalities 

there will also be the inevitable mutation of the human strains of covid-19   which will tend ot  favour versions that  spread  well  but are  somewhat less deadl... however  2020 and 2021    are going to be  subject to restrictions  - as those areas maintaining they are covid  free   are doing so with  profund  restruictions  from a quarantine point of view 



Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 10:55am
I think there is a decent hope that sailing will continue this time. Although you never know until the legislation is published.

I hope we avoid the obvious stupid situations like last time. Where we are required to follow obviously non-sensical rules and every local harbour and water company has their own take on what is 'essential exercise'. There's no doubt we need a lockdown, but hopefully we do a better job of shaping it around positive activities.

For instance, that you can go for  walk with a mate, but not golf, seems odd. Or go for a walk on the public footpath around a lake, but not for a sail on it. 

Or the discussion around for far can you travel to sail. When it makes zero difference.

Or the idea that sports will somehow overwhelm emergency services, and that the RNLI will be assisting plagued ships. 


Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Mozzy

<snip>

Or the idea that sports will somehow overwhelm emergency services, and that the RNLI will be assisting plagued ships. 

more the fact that ANY water rescue  situation were 999 is involved  involves  multiple resources and  staff numbers ...  same as the scenario with ill equipped and ill prepared  people
 deciding that going walking in the hills  is their 'essential  exercise' 


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 2:54pm
But 999 resources were never under pressure. I think this whole message can be comprehensively chalked up as an overreaction. 

All the nimbys will of course see lockdown as an opportunity to crack down on people walking in their hills, on their beaches, or cycling through their town. Or just people who disapprove of fun.

I'd say obviously people should take relevant precautions, but no more or less than normal. It's inevitable that some people will need emergency help, but pretending that this will have any effect on fight against covid I don't get. 


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 3:07pm
Totally agree Smile


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 3:27pm
The whole thing is a clusterf**k, hospitals are at 40% we haven't touched the nightingales, anybody who works around the periphery of the medical supply world will tell you the false positive test rate is embarassingly high. Coastal regions are known to be low for whatever reason, and shall we call them ethnically dense areas very high one wonders if there is a communication issue not being addressed, not to mention flights to and from areas with high covid saturation with links between those areas here, garment workers in Leicester being an instance and Spanish construction workers another. Airport testing should have taken place back in February. This Government and it's Whitehall instruments have been shown to be completely incompetent from the Science down. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the start of civil disobedience this go round.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 02 Nov 20 at 4:13pm
Not written into law, until its been debated. Should add get onto your MP.

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Robert


Posted By: didlydon
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 11:26am
Well....Can we carry on sailing after Thursday then??Confused



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Vareo 365



Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 11:30am
nothing confirmed yet- see RYA Tweet, but Michael Gove corrected an earlier statement where he inaccurately indicated tennis courts & golf courses could remain open.


I'm not entirely sure how you can be stopped from sailing on the sea by yourself without extensive restrictions in the land travel aspect of getting there.


http://twitter.com/RYA/status/1323204682286878728" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/RYA/status/1323204682286878728


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 3:29pm
If Y&Y employ us to do boat reviews we can say we're doing it for a living.....sorted.


Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 4:42pm
Elite sport continues, so I will be dragging the wife out in the corribee to train for the 2024 mixed 2 person keelboat.

She's not impressed, but she can always sit down below with a book.


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 7:55pm
Ian Walker of the RYA  has posted a link to the proposed legislation in the Facebook group Restart sailing.
The general consensus seems to be that unless it’s altered in the House of Commons , we are in a for a four break from sailing . 


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Ian Walker of the RYA  has posted a link to the proposed legislation in the Facebook group Restart sailing.
The general consensus seems to be that unless it’s altered in the House of Commons , we are in a for a four break from sailing . 

My read on the comments on Restart sailing is that there is a bit of a consensus building around organised racing being cancelled but free sailing remaining an option


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H2 #115


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 8:31pm
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/coronavirus-covid-19.aspx
Nothing official yet.

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Robert


Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 03 Nov 20 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Ian Walker of the RYA  has posted a link to the proposed legislation in the Facebook group Restart sailing.
The general consensus seems to be that unless it’s altered in the House of Commons , we are in a for a four break from sailing . 

My read on the comments on Restart sailing is that there is a bit of a consensus building around organised racing being cancelled but free sailing remaining an option

Think even that is more a hope than an expectation. Though I really hope I am wrong and free sailing will be allowed. 
Even though, TBH at my club because of the time of year and the current COVID regs , none of us have any interest in opening the club if we cannot race . But I know lots of sailors at other clubs would love to just free sail. Smile


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:55am
Originally posted by H2

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Ian Walker of the RYA  has posted a link to the proposed legislation in the Facebook group Restart sailing.
The general consensus seems to be that unless it’s altered in the House of Commons , we are in a for a four break from sailing . 

My read on the comments on Restart sailing is that there is a bit of a consensus building around organised racing being cancelled but free sailing remaining an option

Its that grey area of whether sailing for pleasure (ie not racing) is a sport for some.

What is a bit ridiculous is that I may not be able to sail at my local club but I could wheel my boat down to the river (200m from my house) and go sail up and down the river.... or go kayaking or paddleboarding on the same river.... or I could hop on my bike and ride anywhere I please.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 10:25am
Originally posted by jeffers

.

What is a bit ridiculous is 

yes, as others have said,a blanket lock down is a blunt tool. Feeling a bit sorry for those in Cornwall. The area I'm in has quite a low incidence also. I suppose we've got to protect the NHS nationally from overload though.

........My Wife who is an NHS Nurse has worked through all of this, seeing patients on the ward, scrubbing in the theater and doing assessments. Over 60 and with asthma she has had one covid test this year.Confused


Posted By: sarg boland
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 10:58am
The "Club" is a meeting place, where people congregate.  I am just grateful we can go down local river and enjoy being outdoors.  A lock down with only an hour a day allowed for exercise would not make that practical for me.  I think present position is tenable and with a degree of logic.  It's never fair.

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Fair winds


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 5:51pm
Well Hythe Health and Safety SC couldn't wait to shut down but then it's run by a bunch of Girls, the Lake issued an edict today to the Fisherfolk which went something along the lines you can come down with your own house hold or one other and fish as much as you like, nothing mentioned about us second class sailing citizens, but they aint going to lock it up so we're planning on carrying on. We're all single handers concerned about our mental health and self start and finish anyway so nobody is going to know what we're doing.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 6:15pm
RYA update clearly states during 4 week lockdown you can sail, no bars or restaurants at clubs, but they can do takeaway, so you can order your drink or food and sit on the patio after sailing and eat and drink.

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Robert


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 7:39pm
Where have you seen that? The latest from the RYA I've found is suggesting that all clubs must close?

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:03pm
Vanessa W-J has just posted a link on FB from Anglian Water that says they people can still sail...

http://anglianwaterparks.co.uk/grafham-water" rel="nofollow - http://anglianwaterparks.co.uk/grafham-water


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:08pm
https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/new-national-restrictions.aspx

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Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by 423zero

https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/new-national-restrictions.aspx
Your link says the RYAs current understanding is that sailing clubs will have to close, not that they can remain open for sailing and sarnies on the patio.

The RYA and the sports sector throughout have presented strong arguments about the importance of activity during the pandemic, but for the next month most facilities will have to close. It is clear the Government does not want to grant multiple exemptions at this time and are focused on protecting the NHS.

Our current understanding of the situation (subject to any local restrictions) is as follows: 

  • Recreational boating from a public outdoor space for single households and support bubbles or with one other person (with social distancing) may be possible
  • Public waterways and beaches will remain open during the lockdown
  • Outdoor sports centres and amenities (which includes sailing clubs and watersports centres) will have to close
  • Members may be able to access boats for essential checks and maintenance, however, this will need to be agreed with their club/marina/harbour authority, with individuals taking personal responsibility for meeting  https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november%23national-restrictions-from-5-november&data=04%7c01%7cLoretta.Spridgeon%40rya.org.uk%7c7148ddc280d345b2fa5608d880c854fc%7ce7fee957e6594f9a9ae0fe61160217f7%7c1%7c0%7c637400945197390575%7cUnknown%7cTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7c1000&sdata=2qIpgVjmpKuX57OMiZ6ltWzQXquMlI1u8rMB8s/AAn0%3D&reserved=0" rel="nofollow - Government guidance





Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:33pm
Just my interpretation, you may sail, restaurants can do takeaway, you can eat outdoors, you can visit your club to check on your boat with clubs permission. However you.Gov as changed twice in the last hour.

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Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:44pm
Hmm, you said “RYA update clearly states...” when it very definitely doesn’t state those things Confused

But whatever, who wants to sail this time of year if it’s not a race?! 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 8:57pm
Clearly states you may sail, rest of sentence is in RYA update, you are correct about sailing, I only race too.

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Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 9:06pm
Not wanting to labour the point but it states you “may be able to sail” not “you may sail”.  Quite a difference!


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Nov 20 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Clearly states you may sail, rest of sentence is in RYA update, you are correct about sailing, I only race too.

True, if you are sailing on a public waterway and launching from a public outdoor space. Most inland clubs up here lease their water for their exclusive use and there is rarely, if ever, viable access from a public outdoor space. You can't launch from the club because "Outdoor sports centres and amenities (which includes sailing clubs and watersports centres) will have to close"

If you launch from a beach or like, I assume, Grafham and Rutland a public space you can sail. I can't see how my club will be able to allow sailing, or even access to boats for a bit of bimbling as it would be hard to claim that was "essential checks or maintenance" so not a reasonable excuse to travel...



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 5:57am
The RYA webinar was clear (ish)

Clubs will have to close and pretty much no access except for essential maintenance - not bumbling, collecting boats, cutting grass etc

The only sailing will be from public areas (as long as boats don't have to be taken from private club compounds etc)

Even this may be limited if there are too many users (slips/beaches etc) and public perception is not great

Travelling with a boat (to public launching/sailing areas) may be ok but maybe frowned upon by police

Essentially - most clubs are now shut

No sports are exempt apparently

Roll on spring









Posted By: bluefish
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 10:00am
What a ridiculous world we live in where I can travel to a non-essential shop to collect a non-essential item but I can't collect my dinghy from the dinghy park to get some exercise.


Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 11:07am
The 'No bimbling / Maintenance' part was interesting.
By not allowing anyone in to check on boats a club may be accepting liability for any damage incurred if no regular boat park checks are being made.
Collecting boats wasn't deemed 'Illegal' , simply frowned upon as new regulations have no 'law' regarding travel distances. It's simply something that may be frowned upon and a person may be required to provide reasonable excuse if challenged.
To be honest, we can't realistically police clubs 24/7, so I've simply appealed to our members better nature and sense of family/community in following the regulations as they now stand and consider if trips/boat work are actually essential where no regulation exists.

In not looking for loopholes, however, I did find one with regards to the description of 'Public Space' - a question that was raised by a public fishing association that lease land not from a club, but directly from a landowner: A ‘public outdoor space’ is defined as an ‘outdoor place to which the public have, or are permitted, access (whether on payment or otherwise).’ We believe this clearly includes riverbanks, towpaths, beaches and stillwaters that can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association. The government clearly intends for people to be able to take their outdoor exercise and recreation in the form of angling and these regulations allow this to occur




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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Intl 420 ('Little Minx'),Contender 'Mild Oats' (620), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)


Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 11:09am
I don't think that the lockdown is necessary or the best way forward, but if you are going to lockdown there is no point in messing about. Lock everyone down as hard as possible and do the job. Unless you go to the extremes that the French and Spanish did in the spring, there are always going to be grey areas and inconsistencies. The worst outcome would be to half heartedly lockdown and give "them" an excuse to continue it in December


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by fleaberto

In not looking for loopholes, however, I did find one with regards to the description of 'Public Space' - a question that was raised by a public fishing association that lease land not from a club, but directly from a landowner: A ‘public outdoor space’ is defined as an ‘outdoor place to which the public have, or are permitted, access (whether on payment or otherwise).’ We believe this clearly includes riverbanks, towpaths, beaches and stillwaters that can either be accessed freely or on the payment of a day ticket or subscription levied by the owner or leased to a publicly available fishing association. The government clearly intends for people to be able to take their outdoor exercise and recreation in the form of angling and these regulations allow this to occur


Lots of fishing clubs lease the fishing rights rather than the land. As many fishing clubs are on rivers and in country parks they are public open spaces.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by bluefish

What a ridiculous world we live in where I can travel to a non-essential shop to collect a non-essential item but I can't collect my dinghy from the dinghy park to get some exercise.


Are many non essential shops opening for click and collect? The one I work for has decided to do home delivery only.

As for exercise, there are many other forms which don't need a boat.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: bluefish
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Rupert



Are many non essential shops opening for click and collect? The one I work for has decided to do home delivery only.

As for exercise, there are many other forms which don't need a boat.

Yes, for example I could pop to Curry's right now if I wanted and pick up a new toaster and I'm allowed to go sailing, just for some strange reason I can't collect my dinghy from the park.


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 05 Nov 20 at 7:59pm
[/QUOTE]

Lots of fishing clubs lease the fishing rights rather than the land. As many fishing clubs are on rivers and in country parks they are public open spaces.
[/QUOTE]

Good thinking -  I'm going to trail a mackerel line from the back of boat - job done


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 12:00am
Originally posted by bluefish

Originally posted by Rupert



Are many non essential shops opening for click and collect? The one I work for has decided to do home delivery only.

As for exercise, there are many other forms which don't need a boat.

Yes, for example I could pop to Curry's right now if I wanted and pick up a new toaster and I'm allowed to go sailing, just for some strange reason I can't collect my dinghy from the park.


no you can't, strictly click and collect  or dropping off  repairs and returns in England , Welsh store are closed until their firebreak  ends .. 


Posted By: bluefish
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:15am

[/QUOTE]
no you can't, strictly click and collect  or dropping off  repairs and returns in England , Welsh store are closed until their firebreak  ends .. [/QUOTE]

Yes I can, Click and collect is allowed in England:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november

I don't know about Wales, I don't live in Wales...


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:58am
Blue fish, I can see it makes no sense, but if one takes the view that Lockdown is necessary (I do, but you may not, which would influence opinion) then it isn't that it's crazy you can't go sailing but can pick up a toaster, but that you are allowed to pick up a toaster. Adding a trip to the sailing club, golf club, wherever club for everybody just adds to the craziness.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: bluefish
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 8:13am
Originally posted by Rupert

Blue fish, I can see it makes no sense, but if one takes the view that Lockdown is necessary (I do, but you may not, which would influence opinion) then it isn't that it's crazy you can't go sailing but can pick up a toaster, but that you are allowed to pick up a toaster. Adding a trip to the sailing club, golf club, wherever club for everybody just adds to the craziness.

I couldn't say whether lockdown is necessary or not, I don't know enough about the virus to decide, I just go along with what I'm told by those in charge, even though some of them can't seem to stick to their own rules but that's a different subject. 

Thing is the Govt is encouraging us to exercise as much as we like and visit outdoor public spaces, so why does the RYA decide to advise clubs to close dinghy parks?  Does not make sense, I can drive to the park and walk with another adult from a different household but I can't go into the dinghy park by myself and take my dinghy out for a sail. I'm not asking to go into the club house I just want to go into an open space to collect my dinghy and sail.


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 8:40am
The furlough scheme is now extended until the end of March. The writing is on the wall folks. If you want to maintain or improve the current 50/50 chance of having a sailing season next year everyone needs to toe the line now, and in the almost inevitable lockdown 3.0 in February.

Sailjuice and all winter class events should be cancelled, and the RYA should be pushing this.

This is a low point, hopefully the lowest. But if we haven't got this under control by the beginning of next year we not be having a sailing season for the second year running and the damage to our sport will be far, far greater than losing 4 weeks time in the boat now, major travelling events now and another 4 weeks time in the boat in feb if it comes to it.

This is a long game people, and we all need to do our bit :)


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 8:53am
Toasters and the like need to be sold, folks livelihoods depend on it. I can do other stuff for exercise.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

Toasters and the like need to be sold, folks livelihoods depend on it. I can do other stuff for exercise.


Toasters can be delivered (still means people out there delivering of course) so is collection a necessity?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Paramedic

The furlough scheme is now extended until the end of March. The writing is on the wall folks. If you want to maintain or improve the current 50/50 chance of having a sailing season next year everyone needs to toe the line now, and in the almost inevitable lockdown 3.0 in February.

Sailjuice and all winter class events should be cancelled, and the RYA should be pushing this.

This is a low point, hopefully the lowest. But if we haven't got this under control by the beginning of next year we not be having a sailing season for the second year running and the damage to our sport will be far, far greater than losing 4 weeks time in the boat now, major travelling events now and another 4 weeks time in the boat in feb if it comes to it.

This is a long game people, and we all need to do our bit :)
I think lockdown is needed, and will save lives over December- January. But, it's not really a solution, or way of getting thing under control long term (out past a couple of months). 

I certainly don't feel it is in anyway linked to next years sailing season. 

Many classes were able to get up and running in the second half of the summer. Realistically, we could have been doing racing and open events in May and it wouldn't have made the blind bit of difference. We just needed time to test the water, and prove the mitigation. Once the weather improves, there is nothing to stop us picking up where we were in September at the start of the 2021 season. 


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

Toasters and the like need to be sold, folks livelihoods depend on it. I can do other stuff for exercise.


Toasters can be delivered (still means people out there delivering of course) so is collection a necessity?


Ideally regarding virus transmission, and I'm no expert I don't reckon it makes much difference. Person meets person, hands over toaster. The extra cost of delivering all and sundry might nibble into profit or increase cost to consumer. Either way travelling to pick up a toaster helps the economy, going to a sports club not so much.

That aside. If we're talking about necessity perhaps a decent test and trace strategy might have made this whole issue less of a pain in the arse.


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 11:02am
I guess what is frustrating is that the government have had 6 months to plan what lockdown 2.0 will look like, and raft this legislation. 

I totally support a lockdown for the purpose knocking the edge off the curve to slow hospital admissions to a manageable rate. 

But, I do feel outdoor sports and recreation has been given a raw deal. 

Legally it seems you can leave your home to go and exercise alone anywhere (doesn't have to be public, so could be any private club). But then in a sperate section, all private outdoor club are closed, seemingly not just the indoor areas, but all amenities the club offers. 

I get that for exercising with another they want you to use public places. As in private it does seem to be some social distancing breaks down. But all the 'open' private places, like golf clubs, etc, are closed. So you don't have any option anyways.

Recreation, again is fine to leave the house for, and is a pretty loose term. I guess they wanted to avoid the whole 'is this exercise debate' which was a bit nauseating last time and allow for more sedentary, but outdoor activity (like angling). 

But weirdly, fisheries are staying open... because they are not on the list of places that are required to close. Unlike golf courses and water sportscentres). So you can go to a private fishing lake exercise (but not recreation, because recreation must be in a public space?) Say what???

I just don't understand why the legislation can't say 'outdoor you are limited to meeting one other person. No meeting indoors (outside of obvious exemption for work, care and legal obligations). Then close non-essential indoor business, but continue access to their outdoor facilitates. 


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Mozzy



I think lockdown is needed, and will save lives over December- January. But, it's not really a solution, or way of getting thing under control long term (out past a couple of months). 
I certainly don't feel it is in anyway linked to next years sailing season. 
Many classes were able to get up and running in the second half of the summer. Realistically, we could have been doing racing and open events in May and it wouldn't have made the blind bit of difference. We just needed time to test the water, and prove the mitigation. Once the weather improves, there is nothing to stop us picking up where we were in September at the start of the 2021 season. 


No, we could not have run anything beyond basic club racing last May that is an utterly ridiculous statement. My club was still not back to proper racing before last weekend.

A very few classes have got away with running championships at the back end of last summer. I suspect WPNSA will have a field day in 2021 as they are best positioned to deliver.

I hope I’m wrong about 2021 but the government would not have extended furlough unless they were 90% sure it was going to be needed. The first half of next year is in pretty grave danger, and besides towing the line with restrictions as best we can there is not a thing we can do about it.


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 1:02pm
I am not talking about what was allowed, or what people chose to do.

As often we weren't allowed to do things, that made no difference to infection rates. And often people chose to not do things (like run opens) that also made no difference to infection rates. 

So I am saying, that we could have run events from May onward and it would have made no difference to infection rates over the summer. 

Once it's sunny, and you follow basic mitigation, we've proven sailing and racing can go on.

I expect outdoor sports to start up pretty quickly. Whether we lose 10, 20 or 100,000 people this winter. 

I think outdoor sport is pretty much completely uncorrelated to virus transmission. So, as for how well the season goes, it makes not one jot of difference how affective this lockdown is, or how bad the winter goes. . 


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 1:46pm
All the reasons we are back in lock down in one post.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 2:33pm
The kids going back to school have caused present lockdown, adult flu and colds are caught from kids, however they are better off at school.

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Robert


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 2:46pm
Ok, maybe “all” is a bit harsh but this “i know better, it’s not me it’s everyone else” attitude is a huge part of why. I’m not convinced it’s kids or else more schools would be closing - not happening or at least unreported in my area.

My patience with the carry on as normal brigade is at an all time low.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 2:46pm
We can discuss the reasons why we've ended up with a 2nd wave and another lockdown but getting back on topic, if sailing as an allowable form of exercise/recreation, and you can sail from publicly accessible venues it seems perverse to disallow sailing from private clubs. In terms of reducing transmission of C19 it's difficult to see a difference.

But, rules is rules and we ain't gonna die from not sailing for a few weeks...



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Ok, maybe “all” is a bit harsh but this “i know better, it’s not me it’s everyone else” attitude is a huge part of why. I’m not convinced it’s kids or else more schools would be closing - not happening or at least unreported in my area.

My patience with the carry on as normal brigade is at an all time low.


Come on.

I am not suggesting 'carry on as normal'. In the slightest. I am just saying your 'don't sail now, so we can sail in the summer' statement I find tenuous.  I see no link. 

I think we also need to realistic about what this lockdown can achieve. That's not to say I don't think it's needed, I very much do, I hope it can save many lives in next couple of months. But realistically, whether it goes well or not, will make sh*t all difference to next seasons sailing. 

Sailing will be fine next year, because it was actually fine this year. Outdoors is the best place to be.

I hope some more of the social side of sailing can get up and running next year. But I don't think this lockdown will help that in anyway. What that needs is more effective test and trace, quick turnaround mass scale testing, and ideally a vaccine. 


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

We can discuss the reasons why we've ended up with a 2nd wave and another lockdown but getting back on topic, if sailing as an allowable form of exercise/recreation, and you can sail from publicly accessible venues it seems perverse to disallow sailing from private clubs. In terms of reducing transmission of C19 it's difficult to see a difference.

But, rules is rules and we ain't gonna die from not sailing for a few weeks...


I am surprised outdoor water sports centres got caught up in the list of venues to shut. And golf courses. I wonder what evidence there is for this? I would have thought once indoor facilities are closed, there is no difference in transmission at there places compared to anywhere else. 

Like, you can go to a marina, because they aren't asked to close, and sail from their. But not a sailing club dinghy park?


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 3:44pm
Probably because it’s easier to close a whole venue than it is to go through the nuances of what can be open at a venue and what can’t. How would they differentiate between a club where there isn’t a lot of space creating a pinch point and those where it wouldn’t be an issue. Im of the opinion that this has to be done with a broad brush to keep it simple. Look what happened over the summer, people were getting very confused as to what was allowed and what wasn’t. Hopefully it isn’t going to be a long lockdown so let’s do our part by staying at home and sitting it out, except for going for a walk each day.

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: bluefish
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 3:45pm
I can arrive already changed, take my dinghy out of our clubs dinghy park, launch from the public slipway, go sailing, put it back and travel home again without getting near anybody else at all. Risk of me catching or transmitting covid, virtually nil. So why shut the dinghy park and stop me getting my dinghy?

Sure I can go for a jog or walk or cycle but that's boring and not a patch on a good sail.

As for it only being a few weeks, well the Govt isn't extending furlough for 3 months without reason and when the lockdown eventually ends and the cycle starts again and we end up back in lockdown what then, back to square one.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 4:56pm
Hopefully the mass testing experiment in Liverpool will help. The furlough scheme seems expensive, but if people were laid off it wouldn't cost much less, plus companies can retain their staff,with all the benefits of people you know and already experienced.

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Robert


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by bluefish

I can arrive already changed, take my dinghy out of our clubs dinghy park, launch from the public slipway, go sailing, put it back and travel home again without getting near anybody else at all. Risk of me catching or transmitting covid, virtually nil. So why shut the dinghy park and stop me getting my dinghy?

Sure I can go for a jog or walk or cycle but that's boring and not a patch on a good sail.

As for it only being a few weeks, well the Govt isn't extending furlough for 3 months without reason and when the lockdown eventually ends and the cycle starts again and we end up back in lockdown what then, back to square one.

That’s your boat park, what about the next sailing club, or the one after that which may not be able to give that sort of access. That’s what I’m alluding to. If too difficult to differentiate between venues, hence why they are all shut. 

All the shut down is for is to buy time for the vaccine, should it happen and to prevent the nhs from becoming overrun with COVID cases. 


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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Probably because it’s easier to close a whole venue than it is to go through the nuances of what can be open at a venue and what can’t. How would they differentiate between a club where there isn’t a lot of space creating a pinch point and those where it wouldn’t be an issue. Im of the opinion that this has to be done with a broad brush to keep it simple.

But they haven't kept it simple have they or we wouldn't be having this discussion?

Hopefully it isn’t going to be a long lockdown so let’s do our part by staying at home and sitting it out, except for going for a walk each day.

Agreed and no argument about acting responsibly and toeing the line. I'll be cycling a bit more often and the dog will get longer walks so he'll be happy... I doubt I'll travel to the coast to sail even though Sport England suggests it's ok for me to do so.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 6:21pm
There's some people here with remarkable knowledge of where and how people are getting infected. I don't know that the Sage committee has quite such in depth knowledge.
Incidentally there's at least one sailor on the Sage committee, and she has a very impressive sailing CV.


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 6:43pm
Wow ... had a look to find the sailor ... 86 people on the Sage committee, no wonder the media can find a Sage committee member to share their point of view, and that it is before they get to the sub committees!

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Happily living in the past


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by JimC

There's some people here with remarkable knowledge of where and how people are getting infected.  

TBF it's well documented that C19 spreads through people gathering in groups and is much more likely indoors so it's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that there's probably not much of it happening while sailing. Preventing people gathering is the key point and I don't see how encouraging people to sail from public slipways but not their private members club makes any sense.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:21pm
..... not worth it.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:33pm
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIraWLkNTu7AIVzLHtCh0KvQ49EAAYASACEgIHMfD_BwE

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Robert


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Nov 20 at 7:54pm
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_4#:~:text=Children%20are%20important%20drivers%20of,age%20group%20are%20low.
I must apologise to the group, children do drive the flu, but apparently not covid.


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Robert


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 10:47am
I think the jury is out on that issue 423, and I certainly don't need your apology. Lack of contagion in primary aged children? it's possibly the case but not certainly the case. Secondary aged children? they don't know either way.....as far as I can work out.

Uncertainty is a big problem. Ordinary folk want the experts to sound definite and the experts, once their proclamations have been filtered through the media, seemingly oblige......in reality facts are in short supply. It's a dangerous situation and we need info to work out our own personal strategies.

 Some ordinary folk will only deal with facts and scorn anything else, other more imaginative folk will in the absence of facts indulge in a bit of chat and speculative discussion, they'll sound out others, swap opinions, spot possible strategies and gauge feelings. The second group will always have access to more useful info...... IF they have the common sense to apply filters. It takes a bit more brain power but I know most on this forum have that ability. 

My strategy is forget sailing until the new year. Dragging boats around on shingle without winches, getting changed in the back of a cold van and driving home with a salty chuff is not my cuppa. Clubs and individuals need to toe the line and be seen to toe the line......mind you, if this goes on past April I shall be revolting. Wink


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I must apologise to the group, children do drive the flu, but apparently not covid.

I don't think its a terrible assumption to make :)

What is odd given the above are the university outbreaks, but I suppose there is a world of difference to a school with reasonably supervised physical distancing measures and a full Hall of `residence with everyone in each others pockets 24/7


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 2:49pm
I must apologise to the group, children do drive the flu, but apparently not covid.

I don't think there is evidence for that. Some receent studies appear to show that older (2ndry age) children can play a large role in covid infections. It does seem less clear for younger children, but even there I think it's necessary to be careful. 


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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 3:00pm
This week I spoke to a primary school teacher who said attempting to keep the kids apart is impossible - herding squirrels. She was positive that if any child was infected it would have torn through all the other kids and their parents

Another said that at the start of the autumn term the teachers were all tested and found to be negative but most tested positive for the anti bodies

The most interesting one was from an alleged SAGE advisor who said that they and the government are fully aware that, whilst not suffering unduly, young kids spread this like everyone else

It will be interesting to see if the 'lockdown' (which is a pretty poor version of a lockdown) has any effect at all whilst schools are still open?



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 3:49pm
Pretty sure it will have an effect,( after all, we sailors must be super spreaders) just not as big as needed.

Walked past 2 riding stables today. Both had lessons going on.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 4:01pm
My local shopping area was packed yesterday afternoon, only hairdressers and barbers shut, everything was for sale, the off licence was also open, (mind if you were alcoholic, I suppose it's essential).

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Robert


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 4:55pm
As there is no sailing going for a canoe tomorrow. It also has a sail so if there was any wind I could sail it also as BCU is allowing canoeing. As international canoes are also covered by the BCU I believe their value has sky rocketed. 

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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 6:16pm
https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/coronavirus-covid-19/england/riding-schools-lockdown-2
Surprising.

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Robert


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 8:49pm
https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/coronavirus-covid-19/england/riding-schools-lockdown-2 Surprising.

Yes but a not unreasonable interpretation of the rules. Shame the same interpretation is not possible for the young dancers my wife is training towards a professional career.

Originally posted by 423zero

the off licence was also open, (mind if you were alcoholic, I suppose it's essential).

I'm not but it is LOL


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 8:53pm
.....medicinal.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Nov 20 at 9:12pm
Take 35ml of single malt twice a day.

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Robert



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