Print Page | Close Window

OK.. Let's have it, what is the most difficult ..

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13672
Printed Date: 29 Nov 20 at 10:51am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: OK.. Let's have it, what is the most difficult ..
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: OK.. Let's have it, what is the most difficult ..
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 8:36pm
Racing Dinghy to sail across the entire gamut of race conditions..

I give you RS300 for starters.

Somebody tell me different, foilers excepted.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website



Replies:
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 8:51pm
Musto Skiff maybe? You had one once didn't you? A mate (only an average sailor) had one for a season and found it too much for him. But late low rider Moths have to be the trickiest of all...

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 8:58pm
Nope, the Musto is a pussycat compared to the 300.


-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 9:41pm
Fair enough, you have 'the knowledge' Thumbs Up So it'll be a Skippy 2 then?




-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Nope, the Musto is a pussycat compared to the 300.

Wacko


-------------
RS300 and RS200, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 09 Sep 20 at 9:50pm
International canoe? Unbelievably quick upwind in a breeze -in between the tacks 🤣

-------------
OK 2139 & 2148


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 6:19am
For very different reasons... the Star.


Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 8:38am
We've had this question before and it was also explored fully on 'other' forums. Even Sam has it wrong this time - the picture he posted shows a narrow lowrider but with a carbon rig. The reduction in weight aloft was a game changer - but go back just a bit further and you have narrow hulled lowriders with heavy alloy masts, the boats that are widely acknowledged as the most difficult of all the dinghies to sail. It might have been a more interesting question if the caveat 'available today' had been added to the question, as that would make it more relevant.
Other than that, we must be getting desperate to drag these old chestnut stories from out of the long grass and brambles..........

D


-------------
Dougal H


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 8:50am
gotta to be a lowrider.... I've seen good dinghy sailors reduced to tears stepping in one of those.  

Of those I've owned: RS600.... that bitch has a nasty bite when you pull its tail.


Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 9:01am
...And perhaps more interesting still - What was the 'easiest' to get on the pace with ?  (no - not just the easiest to simply sail ! )


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Cirrus

...And perhaps more interesting still - What was the 'easiest' to get on the pace with ?  (no - not just the easiest to simply sail ! )

for me that's easy.... a Laser 2 or Firefly.  Namely because in a 10 minute team race, the rules of attrition are limited. 


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 9:28am
Good question Cirrus, I can't say which but would suggest it has to be a hiking, unarig singlehander as anything with a trap, kite, sliding seat or more than one sail or crew adds complexity that requires more time on the water to coordinate. Adjustable rigs need learning and tweaky ones like Finns and OKs need a different skillset to the likes of the Laser. No FB sails, and no Olympic or super popular classes 'cos the higher average standard makes 'on the pace' harder to achieve. How are we doing so far?

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 10:40am
No boat is really simple to get on the pace with tho IMO. All the competitive 'slow' classes require a lot of skill, finesse and sometimes fitness to be able to squeeze that 0.1knt extra out of a boat that is going basically the same speed as everybody else. For faster boats, it may be easier to get up to max speed in a straight line but boat handling issues can very quickly erode lightning fast speed.

-------------
OK 2139 & 2148


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 10:49am
One thing for sure, they're all difficult with a hangover.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 11:04am
Originally posted by 423zero

One thing for sure, they're all difficult with a hangover.

No, I used to go better in a Laser with a hangover, probably cos my head hurt so much I couldn't overthink things and just sailed. Managed a 3rd at Laser inlands in one race with a stonking headache, as it cleared my results got worse


-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 11:51am
A known tactic from uni days was to get the other teams utterly mullered the night before.... it was strangely easy until we ventured north of the wall and got hit by SUSA drinking teams.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 11:59am
Got some good thread drift going on

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 1:23pm
In terms of the trickier boats, I've sailed 18' Skiffs, 12' Skiffs, Cherubs, foiling Moths, low-rider Moths, MPS, and am currently getting up to speed with an RS700.

But I have to agree with the OP, the 300 is a wide, slippery, counter intuitive, monumentally physical pig of a thing which seems intent on hurting you in a number of ways at any opportunity.  It's great fun up to about 5 knots, and then it just wants to kill you.  I have no idea how a boat devoid of spinnakers, trapezes, racks or hydrofoils, that is essentially the same kind of boat as a Topper can be such an arse, but somehow RS has managed to pull it off.  The comedy feature when it turns turtle and the daggerboard immediately falls out is great, as is that feature where the kicker string jumps off that pulley thing by the mast and jams solid.  Perhaps I'd just borrowed some shedded boats, but I do have a real dislike of them!


-------------
RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed"
Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs"
Enterprise GBR21970
Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra"


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by Iain C

and then it just wants to kill you.  I


-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Iain C

In terms of the trickier boats, I've sailed 18' Skiffs, 12' Skiffs, Cherubs, foiling Moths, low-rider Moths, MPS, and am currently getting up to speed with an RS700.

But I have to agree with the OP, the 300 is a wide, slippery, counter intuitive, monumentally physical pig of a thing which seems intent on hurting you in a number of ways at any opportunity.  It's great fun up to about 5 knots, and then it just wants to kill you.  I have no idea how a boat devoid of spinnakers, trapezes, racks or hydrofoils, that is essentially the same kind of boat as a Topper can be such an arse, but somehow RS has managed to pull it off.  The comedy feature when it turns turtle and the daggerboard immediately falls out is great, as is that feature where the kicker string jumps off that pulley thing by the mast and jams solid.  Perhaps I'd just borrowed some shedded boats, but I do have a real dislike of them!

you forgot to mention the word 'skip'....




Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Iain C

In terms of the trickier boats, I've sailed 18' Skiffs, 12' Skiffs, Cherubs, foiling Moths, low-rider Moths, MPS, and am currently getting up to speed with an RS700.
But I have to agree with the OP, the 300 is a wide, slippery, counter intuitive, monumentally physical pig of a thing which seems intent on hurting you in a number of ways at any opportunity.  It's great fun up to about 5 knots, and then it just wants to kill you.  I have no idea how a boat devoid of spinnakers, trapezes, racks or hydrofoils, that is essentially the same kind of boat as a Topper can be such an arse, but somehow RS has managed to pull it off.  The comedy feature when it turns turtle and the daggerboard immediately falls out is great, as is that feature where the kicker string jumps off that pulley thing by the mast and jams solid.  Perhaps I'd just borrowed some shedded boats, but I do have a real dislike of them!


I think you’re wrong about all of those things....

But even if you weren’t they’d be reasons why I love the 300.


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

A known tactic from uni days was to get the other teams utterly mullered the night before.... it was strangely easy until we ventured north of the wall and got hit by SUSA drinking teams.


Oh yes....it was quite an education joining Aberdeen Uni’s SC


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Iain C

In terms of the trickier boats, I've sailed 18' Skiffs, 12' Skiffs, Cherubs, foiling Moths, low-rider Moths, MPS, and am currently getting up to speed with an RS700.
But I have to agree with the OP, the 300 is a wide, slippery, counter intuitive, monumentally physical pig of a thing which seems intent on hurting you in a number of ways at any opportunity.  It's great fun up to about 5 knots, and then it just wants to kill you.  I have no idea how a boat devoid of spinnakers, trapezes, racks or hydrofoils, that is essentially the same kind of boat as a Topper can be such an arse, but somehow RS has managed to pull it off.  The comedy feature when it turns turtle and the daggerboard immediately falls out is great, as is that feature where the kicker string jumps off that pulley thing by the mast and jams solid.  Perhaps I'd just borrowed some shedded boats, but I do have a real dislike of them!


I think you’re wrong about all of those things....

But even if you weren’t they’d be reasons why I love the 300.

I'm with you there Sarge. I must have had a beginners one because the only time it frightened me was on a broad reach on big surf at Lyme Regis. Otherwise it was quite benign really. Well until going dead downwind in a force 6. Never really had any issues with it. Didn't frighten me as much as the D-One


-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 5:45pm
Whether or not the 300 is 'difficult' to sail is not the question being asked though, it's more a question of what is harder to sail... any suggestions?

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: dohertpk
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 7:24pm
For what it's worth, having owned both, the Musto is a bit easier than the 600 to sail. The kite obviously makes things easier offwind. Also, the ergonomics of the deck encourage you to stand up, giving you way more control. I've sailed the Waszp a good bit too. Until it's foiling and, when I sailed it on the old foil, it needed a solid 15 knots to fly, it's an absolute pig of a boat. Launching and landing the thing is a bloody palaver and, because you can't swing the tiller extension around the back as you do in a moth, the extension insists on getting stuck under the control lines through maneouvres. Give me my Musto any day.


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Whether or not the 300 is 'difficult' to sail is not the question being asked though, it's more a question of what is harder to sail... any suggestions?


Look at the top of the page, it literally says “what is the most difficult...”


-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 8:15pm
Anything Aft rigged.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Anything Aft rigged.


Really? Just face backwards in the tacks and kiss your ass goodbye in the gybes...

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Sep 20 at 9:26pm
I think it all started when I was younger, in a heartbeat someone had thrust me into a brand new navy blue Wayfarer, pushed me off and waved me goodbye, has in all such scenarios, a gentle breeze turned nasty and promptly took charge of the boat.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 11 Sep 20 at 8:46am
My leaky topper at a grafham Inlands in 20 knots+ 

Giles Scott was busy winning the races by a whole reach, meanwhile, I couldn't get downwind. The boat was half full of water, and when it rushed to the bow my 35 kilos sat at the back wasn't nearly enough to stop spoon shaped bow digging in triggering a pitch-pole. 

To add insult to injury the top section was also leaky which made the thing even hard to keep upright. 

That's definitely the hardest boat to sail I've ever been in. 


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Sep 20 at 9:20am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Whether or not the 300 is 'difficult' to sail is not the question being asked though, it's more a question of what is harder to sail... any suggestions?


Look at the top of the page, it literally says “what is the most difficult...”

The point being 'most difficult' (aka 'hardest'LOL) which the RS300 is only if there is nothing else that is more difficult. Wink

I guess there are people who find Lowrider Moths and RS300s easy to sail but which one is easiest (or, if you prefer hardest or most difficult)?


-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 11 Sep 20 at 9:47am
The only boat I've tried that I would say was really difficult to sail (as opposed to difficult to sail well) was my Magnum 9.9 moth in force 2 and below. Like riding a bike it was stable at speed, but I really struggled in the light stuff.


Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 8:48am
Sailed an older lower rider moth, not sure on design but it had a tin rig and was an absolute b*s*a*rd, might have been something to do with the boat itself as most of it didn't seem to work. Never got on with a 300 either but the moth was definitely harder to just sail. 

Saying that my RS 600 beat me up for a good few years before I got to grips with it. A particularly demoralizing Bloody Mary of many capsizes was a low point but I took some solace in finding the leak which seemed to magnify the boat's death wish on that occasion!


-------------
RS600 988


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 11:07am
My RS600 (#802) was the most difficult boat I have sailed. When I first took delivery of it many moons ago, when the previous generation RS were at Chandlers Ford (now Romsey), I went straight to Stokes Bay SC, rigged it, and went for my first sail. I promptly capsized within 50 yds off the beach. A few blasts later and many more capsizes, I became exhausted and need the help of a safety boat after a particularly troublesome multiple windward capsize. All this in front of my future wife and my mother. I eventually got to grips with it and later had a fun time at Lake Garda on honeymoon in 1997 - pictured here (yes, I took it on honeymoon). Fab, if difficult, boat




Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

  (yes, I took it on honeymoon).
I guess having seen your first attempt and being newlywed she fancied the life insurance she was now eligible for....


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 1:47pm
So Chris - when I read your post first time I thought your wife was your mother....then I re-read it and worked out they were both there but different people...phew

-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by H2

So Chris - when I read your post first time I thought your wife was your mother....then I re-read it and worked out they were both there but different people...phew

LOL

Yeah, perhaps could have worded it better. ;-)  Though my wife turned out to be a bitch and we divorced some years later. My mother, I cant divorce her  .....  ;-) 


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 2:01pm
So you took a single hander on honeymoon and your wife turned out to be a bitch, why does that not surprise me?
They can be so unreasonable.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So you took a single hander on honeymoon 
They can be so unreasonable.  

Indeed. What else are you supposed to do on honeymoon?  Approve


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Sep 20 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Chris_H


Originally posted by iGRF

So you took a single hander on honeymoon They can be so unreasonable.  

Indeed. What else are you supposed to do on honeymoon?  Approve


Er just a thought.. you didn't take your mother as well by any chance?

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 15 Sep 20 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

We've had this question before and it was also explored fully on 'other' forums. Even Sam has it wrong this time - the picture he posted shows a narrow lowrider but with a carbon rig. The reduction in weight aloft was a game changer - but go back just a bit further and you have narrow hulled lowriders with heavy alloy masts, the boats that are widely acknowledged as the most difficult of all the dinghies to sail...

Umm... used to sail a lowrider alloy rig Moth without much issue. A Mag5 which most will say were harder than the very narrow lowriders, because of the steering effect of the hull shape combined with the alloy rig. But nothing beat me up like a MustoSkiff. All be it, my one go was in a harsh gusty F5+, and I'm 5'3". Haven't sailed a RS300, but I'd imagine it will have the same issues an RS100 has - for us proper sized people. Again the only time I've sailed one it was sporting the 10.2m rig and it was honking. If you don't have leg length they are both a bitch due to soap dish interiors. 

Boats are difficult for different reasons for different people.

But one boat that is undeniably very difficult is a modern UK Cherub.




-------------
http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com