Print Page | Close Window

Club changing rooms ... are they open?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13656
Printed Date: 29 Nov 20 at 11:29am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Club changing rooms ... are they open?
Posted By: L192444
Subject: Club changing rooms ... are they open?
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 1:45pm
Under the covid rules is your club allowing people to use the changing rooms and/or the toilets?



Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 2:02pm
No, also sailing by appointment.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 2:40pm
nope and only by booking places to turn up too.

-------------
Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 2:41pm
Changing rooms no, toilets one person at a time.


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 3:26pm
Same here up north of the Wall. I've grown to appreciate the benefits of my drysuit.



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Same here up north of the Wall. I've grown to appreciate the benefits of my drysuit.


What, you can wee in it and no one knows?!

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 7:59pm
No changing rooms or other clubhouse facilities aside from toilets.

Aside from that we are back to racing.


-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 8:06pm
Same on hanging rooms.....does seem a little odd when using showers on a busy campsite...


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Aug 20 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Same on hanging rooms.....does seem a little odd when using showers on a busy campsite...

It will be the cleaning requirements for most clubs, that and most SC changing rooms cant easily have a 1 way system.

I know Grafham havent opened theirs yet and they have gone Covid secure across the site.


-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 18 Aug 20 at 7:55am
one in one out in the changing rooms, no showers. I haven't used them just changed by the side of my boat.  Our loos are in use but instructions on cleaning after you to keep people safe.
Local council toilets are also open.



-------------
Gordon
Phantom 1430


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 18 Aug 20 at 12:21pm
Our toilets are open for one person at a time, racing is back on, the club is closed but bar is open with drinks brought to your table on the patio.

-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 20 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Same on hanging rooms.....does seem a little odd when using showers on a busy campsite...

"Hanging rooms" is that where those who failed to turn up for duties used to be taken, before the world went mad and normal sailing flew out the window


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 19 Aug 20 at 9:41am
No use of the changing rooms. 
One person at a time in the loos with a one way system. 
Catering (Wych's Kitchen, well done lads) delivering food and drink to socially distanced tables on the patio. 
Social sailing and racing all good.



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 19 Aug 20 at 11:53am
Our changing room is limited to 5 persons, except as some wag noted when I'm in there and it's only 4 Ĺ. so 5 Ĺ won't matter.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 21 Aug 20 at 9:26am
Same at Carsington.  Water open to members.  Galley closed, bar closed, changing room closed.  Drinks available on the terrace.   Strange, as a neighbour who plays golf says their bar and changing rooms are fully open.. the bar is a Pub after all and biology apparently works differently in pubs.


-------------
3604 ...lapse of reason
Javelin 558


Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 21 Aug 20 at 11:08am
Notts County changing rooms are closed. Toilet cubicles open, one in one out. I think this was to free up the disabled toilet more than anything, as until recently that was the only toilet in use.

Bar closed, catering just started but the whole clubhouse is now a one-way queuing system for the galley, no eating or gathering indoors at all.


-------------
RS600 1001


Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 21 Aug 20 at 1:25pm
Could get interesting as we get into colder season if there is no let up?


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 21 Aug 20 at 2:45pm
Expect a boom in drysuit sales Thumbs Up



-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 22 Aug 20 at 4:49pm
Toilets only at our club too. Means we have to take the camper van instead of the more economical car but at least we have all the necessary.



Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 7:28am
Changing in a van or pop up tent? wet-suits are difficult enough to get off, not to mention damp, highly tensioned surgical supports.
Driving home with salty nether regions? Some fetishists might approve I suppose.
One loo available? It'll do but the experience does rather depend on who's just been in there. A lot of folk like to have a curry on Saturday night.
Catering not available?  We've had some but it's gone again.
Sailing with below par courses because of limited volunteers?

Not sure how long this can be sustained. Of course the real die hards will sail on a puddle if it's the only thing available but what percentage of the membership are that committed.

What does "Social Membership" mean now? It's a large chunk of the membership for many clubs.

What can a club do? Memberships were already in decline before the pandemic.

Any Exec coms discussing strategies to combat these problems? 





Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 11:23am
Originally posted by iGRF

Our changing room is limited to 5 persons, except as some wag noted when I'm in there and it's only 4 Ĺ. so 5 Ĺ won't matter.

You are advised to use the non-binary changing room.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

  

What does "Social Membership" mean now? It's a large chunk of the membership for many clubs.

What can a club do? Memberships were already in decline before the pandemic.

Any Exec coms discussing strategies to combat these problems? 


I have said it before many times - there are already too many clubs to support too few sailors. A natural cull or amalgamation of clubs would ensure the survival of the sporting facilities.  

C19 is having an affect in all aspects of our lives - as an example, shopping high streets will never be the same again - perhaps the time is ripe to look at a new way of how sailing clubs exist, cater for, and are run


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 1:59pm
The clubs round us all seem busy enough.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 3:05pm
We are now seeing as much activity as in 2019, albeit of a slightly different style but activity all the same.

I noticed today that my old club on the East Anglian coast had yesterday what looked like the best turnout for several years.

Sailing is a great antidote to numerous ills and given choice regular people will continue and a few new ones will find a way to benefit from time on the water.  


Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 3:20pm
We're running a Sunday Pursuit race, with >60 boats each day (and not the same ones!).
What is encouraging is seeing a laser fleet of >20 boats, whereas last year there were only a few.
We're also seeing a surge in the RS Aero (all rigs). Maybe people are sailing nearer home, or using "holiday funds" for a dinghy rather than a trip abroad with the roulette wheel of having a 2 week quarantine as well.

Let's hope this activity feeds into the sailing clubs finances and facilities.


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 24 Aug 20 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

  

What does "Social Membership" mean now? It's a large chunk of the membership for many clubs.

What can a club do? Memberships were already in decline before the pandemic.

Any Exec coms discussing strategies to combat these problems? 


I have said it before many times - there are already too many clubs to support too few sailors. A natural cull or amalgamation of clubs would ensure the survival of the sporting facilities.  

C19 is having an affect in all aspects of our lives - as an example, shopping high streets will never be the same again - perhaps the time is ripe to look at a new way of how sailing clubs exist, cater for, and are run


Yep Totally agree. Commercially run clubs?  not that I'd join one, they do seem more adventurous and adaptable though.

Reading this thread it seems that most clubs are running on 2 cylinders ATM. The WHO reckons 2 years before we see the back of the pandemic and when the kids go back to school (rightly so IMO) the R number will probably go up so the restrictions may not be lifted any time soon. 

we'll see.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 7:35am
Its the same doomsayers on here predicting the end of sailing as a result of COVID, yet we have seen more new members this year than normal even without running open days or advertising. Sunday racing last weekend saw 28 boats out which for a small pond in the Cotswolds is alot. I am not sure where some folks are looking to get their negative views, but based on what I see, COVID has been a boon for our sport!

-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 7:55am
a couple of simple factors - what has been the traveller's events loss has been club sailing's gain (no bad thing imho).

Plus people aren't going on holipops and the pubs are pretty sh*t: you can't buy a decent bike for love nor money, it makes sense to assume some people may return to dinghy sailing if there's a general vibe of getting active outside more.

I hope the new found and rediscovered enthusiasm lasts.


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:21am
We had over 50 boats racing on Sunday morning in the rain and a different cohort of over 30 training or casual sailing in the afternoon. Thatís with no changing rooms or bar etc, so I think there is plenty of appetite for sailing still.

Sailing has a number of unique features that will always make it stand out from other activities, so whilst we may not maintain the fleets of yesteryear I am confident that is ailing has a healthy future.


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:36am
Originally posted by H2

Its the same doomsayers on here predicting the end of sailing as a result of COVID, yet we have seen more new members this year than normal even without running open days or advertising. Sunday racing last weekend saw 28 boats out which for a small pond in the Cotswolds is alot. I am not sure where some folks are looking to get their negative views, but based on what I see, COVID has been a boon for our sport!


Being adaptable requires that you can foresee potential problems that may arise........so that you can (yes, you guessed it) "adapt". It's also called being "proactive" (yep, you guessed it again).

The sailing community in general is terrible at these particular skills preferring instead to dream of bygone days of class fleets, heavy old boats, copious numbers of volunteers, patronising all and sundry and archaic names..........that's the way it was and that's the way we'd like it to be again. It ain't gonna happen. 

About 15 yrs ago I started a thread on here about declining participation according to the Sport England survey, "what could be done about it?" was my question. Nearly every response  was along the lines of  "The numbers aren't specific enough" or more commonly "Na, it's a load of rubbish, still good here", Denial.........Where is the sport of sailing now? I wasn't saying that we could do anything about it, I was just asking folk to think about it. No Joy.

Sadly the decline was already happening, it is happening. The covid restrictions are another potential nail in the coffin of the sport and if many of the Member run clubs don't get a little more creative in their response then the pandemic will do further damage to participation figures and the commercial clubs will flourish.......not what I want personally. 












Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 11:00am
er .....don't quite follow you there ... if particiaption is 'down' why would or could 'commercial' clubs flourish ? 

In fact many regular clubs are seeing the exact opposite ...  Rising participation and club innovation and adaption.  In additon all clubs have to have a supportive commercial ethos these days and have needed to be switched on in that department for several decades now.  It does not automatically need the RYA or 'Sport England' (or your own regional version !) involvement either - this is grass roots stuff at the moment and not just a harking back to the 'good old days' either.  Will some clubs fade away ?  of course and they always have done.  However will other clubs (and classes) grow and develop strongly ? ....very possibly.


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

[QUOTE=H2] ......if many of the Member run clubs don't get a little more creative in their response then the pandemic will do further damage to participation figures and the commercial clubs will flourish.......not what I want personally. 

My old 'home' club, Prestwick SC, took the creative step of offering free membership to anybody this year given the unusual circumstances they found themselves in. I took them up on their offer for old times sake (and it's an excuse to go sail down there for a change) but I'm told it's been a big success locally with people who had considered asking about membership but never quite got round to joining taking them up on the offer. Hopefully they will turn those new members into paying members next year.


-------------
OK 2139 & 2148


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by KazRob

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

[QUOTE=H2] ......if many of the Member run clubs don't get a little more creative in their response then the pandemic will do further damage to participation figures and the commercial clubs will flourish.......not what I want personally. 

My old 'home' club, Prestwick SC, took the creative step of offering free membership to anybody this year given the unusual circumstances they found themselves in. I took them up on their offer for old times sake (and it's an excuse to go sail down there for a change) but I'm told it's been a big success locally with people who had considered asking about membership but never quite got round to joining taking them up on the offer. Hopefully they will turn those new members into paying members next year.


Brilliant Thumbs Up


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 3:22pm
I'm not that sure what's going on at our club with all the restrictions on entry to all but the inner cliques sanctioned by the Soviet, but I did hear a rumour that they'd been so successful this season,that they were thinking of closing the membership, so there must be demand, albeit for SUP, Cycle and Windsurfing, our boat park as usual constrains the sailing membership.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 4:33pm
Can't see anything happening at my (very small) club this year, I haven't sailed since lockdown started, you have to book a place and that's not for racing just cruising round, I only race or sail somewhere.
Very pleased to hear bigger clubs are doing ok.


-------------
Robert


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

er .....don't quite follow you there ... if particiaption is 'down' why would or could 'commercial' clubs flourish ? 

In fact many regular clubs are seeing the exact opposite ...  Rising participation and club innovation and adaption.  In additon all clubs have to have a supportive commercial ethos these days and have needed to be switched on in that department for several decades now.  It does not automatically need the RYA or 'Sport England' (or your own regional version !) involvement either - this is grass roots stuff at the moment and not just a harking back to the 'good old days' either.  Will some clubs fade away ?  of course and they always have done.  However will other clubs (and classes) grow and develop strongly ? ....very possibly.


Why could commercial clubs flourish? Because they are generally quicker to adapt and tend to be more creative in their pursuit of dosh. Less hidebound and less timid......not always but generally and I'm not saying that I prefer them either.

No doubt some clubs, larger ones in particular still have waiting lists. Not sure which club you sail at so I couldn't comment on it's circumstances. 

Reading through the first few pages of this thread most are reporting restricted/no changing facilities, restricted/booked sailing, restricted/no catering, restricted loo facilities. Many clubs have a significant income from social memberships.......No social activities. I definitely don't think this is sustainable.

The WHO reckons 2yrs before we see the back of this pandemic. R number teetering on the edge of more restrictions . Kids going back to school. Sage members saying a couple of weeks ago that they don't see how they can lift any more restrictions in the current climate.

Given that some or all restrictions could be in place for quite a while are you really trying to tell me that this isn't to the detriment of the sport and it's participation? 







Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 4:50pm
I have to agree that club sailing has undergone a huge shot in the arm. One club near to me has more boats out than ever. The main club I sail at has seen a membership increase. The other club i sail at had 33 boats out two Sundays ago and 20+ last Sunday.

This is really good, and to be fair is much needed. But classes that are circuit based with little concentrated club activity are inevitably going to suffer and many of our perched top classes fall into that category.

All that said none of the clubs I refer to are anywhere near back to activity in the manner we had before COVID. The one I'm not a member of - I hear - are pushing the limits of what's acceptable. The two I am a member are cautious. But they are all still here.


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 4:57pm
.....and as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, come the colder months.



Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

.....and as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, come the colder months.


To be fair at some of the smaller clubs will it make much difference to have no changing facilities? Poor, inefficient heating and showers that vary from frigid to volcanic depending on how you look at the tap LOL


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:11pm

Originally posted by Paramedic



I have to agree that club sailing has undergone a huge shot in the arm. One club near to me has more boats out than ever. The main club I sail at has seen a membership increase. The other club in sail at had 33 boats out two Sundays ago and 20+ last Sunday.
This is really good, and to be fair is much needed. But classes that are circuit based with little concentrated club activity are inevitably going to suffer and many of our perched top classes fall into that category.
All that said none of the clubs I refer to are anywhere near back to activity in the manner we had before COVID. The one I'm not a member of - I hear - are pushing the limits of what's acceptable. The two I am a member are cautious. But they are all still here.



I would be very cautious in suggesting that sailing has had a huge shot in the arm. I believe it is just a spike and not at all representative of the future†
For sure, the club I belong to has had a huge upsurge in its week day evening racing and general sailing. But I would say there are many reasons for this:
- Many people are working form home (if indeed they are working at all) and can therefore make the time to race/participate as they donít have the commute to deal with
- Some are not working at all and so can do so
- Anyone flying away on holiday needs their head examined and so have much more availability
- The weather, up until now, has been exceptional and great for sailing
- /Itís the school holidays anyway
But this does not translate to club income to keep it afloat. Membership fees have already been paid anyway. Catering is limited. Bar opening hours are limited. This is clear from the downturn in people eating and drinking
New members will always come along, but whether they stay and renew for next year we will have to see.†
It wont be until this time next year that boost clubs will see the financials and forecast of drinks/food/membership/social activities †and make an informed decision as to where they go next.
Anything else is pure speculation.
My gut feel is, some clubs will have close - accelerated by C19. And those closures were probably inevitable anyways- just fore-shortened
As for the future of clubs - I despair at some I know. Hanging by a thread, populated by the old school who dream of the old days to come back and cant think of a better way forward. They deserve to close
I believe clubs need to be much more professional, much more with the commercials in mind. Sailors, in general, WILL pay more fees for a better service - I believe. Corinthian clubs will still be around, but few and far between - and rightly so.

We need to grow up


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

I would be very cautious in suggesting that sailing has had a huge shot in the arm. 

Club  Sailing. not sailing in general :)


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:18pm
As for changing rooms - I havenít missed them at all as I either get changed at home before and after or use a robe next to the boat. However, come the winter........ I donít sail in the winter anyway 😅


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Chris_H


I believe clubs need to be much more professional, much more with the commercials in mind. Sailors, in general, WILL pay more fees for a better service - I believe. Corinthian clubs will still be around, but few and far between - and rightly so.

I hope - and for the first time in a long time have hope - that this is poppycock.

Club's over reliance on the early-retirement generation from the 90's is well known, as is the fact that this bonanza of spare time cannot last forever and is coming to an end.

What COVID has done is force younger members to make things happen because all of the "doers" at the club have been heeding advice to stay away. These younger members have found out what it takes to run the club, and will i'm sure find a way to make it continue. This is because the vast majority of us prefer the proper "club" atmosphere of a volunteer run club warts and all.

Time will be an issue, but we can do meetings over Zoom. Maybe we will have to pay a groundsman again. But I don't see a coming age where all clubs will be managed clubs, and this is precisely because a generation of members have had to "grow up" as you put it :)


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Paramedic


Originally posted by Chris_H


I believe clubs need to be much more professional, much more with the commercials in mind. Sailors, in general, WILL pay more fees for a better service - I believe. Corinthian clubs will still be around, but few and far between - and rightly so.

I hope - and for the first time in a long time have hope - that this is poppycock.
Club's over reliance on the early-retirement generation from the 90's is well known, as is the fact that this bonanza of spare time cannot last forever and is coming to an end.
What COVID has done is force younger members to make things happen because all of the "doers" at the club have been heeding advice to stay away. These younger members have found out what it takes to run the club, and will i'm sure find a way to make it continue. This is because the vast majority of us prefer the proper "club" atmosphere of a volunteer run club warts and all.
Time will be an issue, but we can do meetings over Zoom. Maybe we will have to pay a groundsman again. But I don't see a coming age where all clubs will be managed clubs, and this is precisely because a generation of members have had to "grow up" as you put it :)


Hope is a good thing and I donít disagree with your hope. Reality I believe will be different.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:34pm
Sailing and sailing clubs will be around till the end of time. But moving with the changing times will see changes at all levels. Change is inevitable and should be welcomed and embraced. I do not see a place in the long term future for Corinthian type clubs. It doesnít exist in the Golfing world and wonít exist in the future sailing world. That may be sad, I agree, but inevitable


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 5:58pm
I disagree, golfing requires a course to be laid out and maintained. Usually over a large area and at much expense. Competitive sailing only needs access to a piece of water, the means to place some marks and the means to start and to record finishing times. Sailing clubs becoming commercial organisations would IMHO, be a very bad thing for the sport.

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I disagree, golfing requires a course to be laid out and maintained. Usually over a large area and at much expense. Competitive sailing only needs access to a piece of water, the means to place some marks and the means to start and to record finishing times. Sailing clubs becoming commercial organisations would IMHO, be a very bad thing for the sport.


Letís review this post in 10-15 yrs time (if this forum is still around which I highly doubt - it needs to be put out of its misery and backward thinking) 😉

Dinosaurs once ruled the earth but we know what happened to them...


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 6:29pm
I think that the Corinthian do-it-yourself clubs have a better chance of survival provided they own their freeholds or have secure leases.  The clubs with expensive infrastructure, relying on bar take, catering and having a payroll will find things challenging and it will not be unclear which ones can survive COVID, time will tell, when next years subs are due in.

IMO the survival of clubs is slightly removed from dinghy racing, I suspect that keen racers will be adaptable on how they get to race and what facilities may be required.  During lockdown we were having quite satisfying racing with no more than a WhatsApp message, rabbit starts, windward leewards ... it shows that we might only need rudimentary facilities.


-------------
Happily living in the past


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

It doesnít exist in the Golfing world

Which, I understand, was in deep **** before the pandemic with courses closing all over the place.


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Chris_H

It doesnít exist in the Golfing world

Which, I understand, was in deep **** before the pandemic with courses closing all over the place.


Which highlights the problem even more....


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 6:34pm
We once ran a boxing day race using a car for race control, horn and lights for race start.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by KazRob

Originally posted by Sussex Lad

[QUOTE=H2] ......if many of the Member run clubs don't get a little more creative in their response then the pandemic will do further damage to participation figures and the commercial clubs will flourish.......not what I want personally. 

My old 'home' club, Prestwick SC, took the creative step of offering free membership to anybody this year given the unusual circumstances they found themselves in. I took them up on their offer for old times sake (and it's an excuse to go sail down there for a change) but I'm told it's been a big success locally with people who had considered asking about membership but never quite got round to joining taking them up on the offer. Hopefully they will turn those new members into paying members next year.


Sorry about my brief reply to you post earlier. I was having a brief lunch break. I have no idea how the other forumites find the time to monitor the forum and reply so extensively Wink

Free Membership. Sounds like a very creative idea and not an idea that a commercial club would ever consider.

I assume the treasurer has done some sums? Are the number of free memberships limited to avoid a deluge?



Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 

I have no idea how the other forumites find the time to monitor the forum and reply so extensively Wink

To be fair, there are only about 12 forum members who post anyway. Hugely representative of the sailing community .....


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 Free Membership. Sounds like a very creative idea and not an idea that a commercial club would ever consider.

I assume the treasurer has done some sums? Are the number of free memberships limited to avoid a deluge?
I assume they took a considered view on it and decided they had to do something. With the prospect of potentially no sailing this season when lockdown started one of the big worries must have been having members drop out for whatever reason. The free membership keeps people in the club as well as attract new potential members. They are asking for a donation, but it is no means compulsory for anybody.  https://www.prestwicksailingclub.co.uk/how-to-join/how-do-i-get-started-sailing" rel="nofollow - https://www.prestwicksailingclub.co.uk/how-to-join/how-do-i-get-started-sailing

Perhaps the ability to shutdown expenditure and facilities quickly and flexibly is one advantage a community club has over a commercial club who have wages etc to pay regularly.


 



-------------
OK 2139 & 2148


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I disagree, golfing requires a course to be laid out and maintained. Usually over a large area and at much expense. Competitive sailing only needs access to a piece of water, the means to place some marks and the means to start and to record finishing times. Sailing clubs becoming commercial organisations would IMHO, be a very bad thing for the sport.


Letís review this post in 10-15 yrs time (if this forum is still around which I highly doubt - it needs to be put out of its misery and backward thinking) 😉

Dinosaurs once ruled the earth but we know what happened to them...


If you hate this forum, which has been around longer than 15 years already, why do you post?

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Chris_H

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

I disagree, golfing requires a course to be laid out and maintained. Usually over a large area and at much expense. Competitive sailing only needs access to a piece of water, the means to place some marks and the means to start and to record finishing times. Sailing clubs becoming commercial organisations would IMHO, be a very bad thing for the sport.


Letís review this post in 10-15 yrs time (if this forum is still around which I highly doubt - it needs to be put out of its misery and backward thinking) 😉

Dinosaurs once ruled the earth but we know what happened to them...


If you hate this forum, which has been around longer than 15 years already, why do you post?

A) I dont 'Hate' this forum. I find it quaintly amusing and archaic
B) There are on very rare occassions, useful nuggets of information
C) C19 has given me loads of free time to nudge and stir the pot to make people think a bit more than just being dinosaurs, such as you..
D) Sailors can be such a strange bunch of f**kers - 
E) IMHO - sailing, clubs, and sailors need a wake-up call, smell the coffee, and welcome in the future




Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 8:37pm
Lets be honest, there are roughly 12 of you who post here - on what is one of the supposed biggest journals in the UK. 12! Really? And yet some seem to think they represent the thinkings of the sailing community. It is somewhat bizarre. But amusing. I am being deliberately provocative so excuse if you think I am being offensive. 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 9:00pm
There are 12 posters who are persistent negative posters, you know who you are, hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by 423zero

There are 12 posters who are persistent negative posters, you know who you are, hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard.




+1


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 9:03pm
E) IMHO - sailing, clubs, and sailors need a wake-up call, smell the coffee, and welcome in the future

I am sure the 12 posters would like to be enlightened as to what the future might hold, and how we might improve the outcome?  I am sure that we might all want to help a favourable outcome, but as time passes I am increasingly of the view that the main priority is to secure decent class racing for as long as I am fit enough to sit a boat out ... selfish maybe ... pragmatic certainly


-------------
Happily living in the past


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 9:05pm
Donít think it is too hard to work out who most of the posters are

-------------
Happily living in the past


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 9:32pm
+1 on the racing.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 25 Aug 20 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

er .....don't quite follow you there ... if particiaption is 'down' why would or could 'commercial' clubs flourish ? 

In fact many regular clubs are seeing the exact opposite ...  Rising participation and club innovation and adaption.  In additon all clubs have to have a supportive commercial ethos these days and have needed to be switched on in that department for several decades now.  It does not automatically need the RYA or 'Sport England' (or your own regional version !) involvement either - this is grass roots stuff at the moment and not just a harking back to the 'good old days' either.  Will some clubs fade away ?  of course and they always have done.  However will other clubs (and classes) grow and develop strongly ? ....very possibly.

if particpation is down  because of a 'poor offer'  means  time-poor individuals   think sod it and leave the boat in the garage / back garden again this year and maybe  take the boat on holiday  

if participation  is down becausee the  local clubs are run by   some of the   pale, male and stales  that  post  here   that;ls another factor ... 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 7:33am
There are almost 30 separate posters on this short thread, unfortunately there are also 3 of the most negative, rude and thoughtless poster, perhaps not responding to their posts will drive them away?

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 7:39am
Nope. Am still here. It is good (and positive) to challenge the status quo and get people to think differently . Itís how new ideas and better ways are born


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 8:28am
Not quite sure why this thread has become so bitter.  I have no problem agreeing that the sport faces challenges both as a result of cv19 and wider societal issues.  But I am also convinced that sailing is fundamentally peerless. 

Some clubs may need to change and some may struggle, but there will always be an appetite for mucking about on water.

I used to think that RS should have bought Bewl when the opportunity came up and run it like a country club with no private boat ownership and Aeros, 200s etc for hire (weekly or seasonally).  Removes the cost and burden of boat ownership, guarantees fleets, pro run with no duties for members etc.  This model might work in some exceptional locations BUT generally I think it might encourage easy come-easy go attitudes - a short term boost to numbers but with much turnover and entitled customers.  As I mature into middle-age I increasingly recognise the benefit of a community working together and volunteering time and skills to help society.  Being active in a volunteer led club is good for the soul. 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 9:15am
We have become a 'Yes, No' people, there doesn't appear to be many 'maybe's'.
I can only speak for my own experience with sailing, our sport can be expensive or cheap, I spend more on bikes than sailing, yet non sailors give a sharp intake of breath when I say that I sail, 'must have plenty of money', sailors also carry the stigma of being 'stuck up', I haven't found this either, perhaps I have been lucky in only finding friendly, helpful people ? Public perception of sailing needs to be challenged to increase chance of new people.


-------------
Robert


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 10:12am
My 'corinthian' club has been sailing and busy; pre-booked free-sailing numbers when lockdown was lifted, racing turnouts when they were eased further, have all been excellent. 
It was so busy last weekend that consideration is being given to reverting to our normal Sunday programme of half the classes sailing in the morning and half in afternoon, rather than all together in the afternoon. Duties are allocated to volunteers and are working well too with some flexibility; I have my non-sailing, adult son as my crew in the safety boat this evening for instance.

My concern, 'future-of-sailing' wise is that the restrictions we are all under will further damage double-handed boats and further increase the emphasis on single-handers. We had a lad helming a Cadet and wearing a mask on Sunday. 

And I may well be buying a changing robe if autumn sets in and changing rooms remain out of use


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Chris_H

Nope. Am still here. It is good (and positive) to challenge the status quo and get people to think differently . Itís how new ideas and better ways are born

So what are these great new ideas you have?

And how do you know they are new?

perhaps in a dedicated thread though...


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 10:25am
The club I am a member of and involved in helping run is doing just fine financially but then we have never relied upon the bar or food to help pay the costs and we have never had any employees to pay. Membership is way up and involvement way up too. Future looks bright and yes we have changed as a result of the pandemic, I do not see the strange world that some seem to believe is in play.

-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 10:27am
Did I say that _I_  have the new ideas?   Wink
It is good to discuss any that come to light though and be open to them, as opposed to throttle them at birth, which seems to be a tendency here.

Love the thought process from A2Z on RS buying Bewl and effectivel having rental/hire ownership - pay and play scenario. Wont work everywhere but the idea is great.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 10:45am
Originally posted by 423zero

We have become a 'Yes, No' people, there doesn't appear to be many 'maybe's'.
I can only speak for my own experience with sailing, our sport can be expensive or cheap, I spend more on bikes than sailing, yet non sailors give a sharp intake of breath when I say that I sail, 'must have plenty of money', sailors also carry the stigma of being 'stuck up', I haven't found this either, perhaps I have been lucky in only finding friendly, helpful people ? Public perception of sailing needs to be challenged to increase chance of new people.

Thumbs Up pretty much sums it up.


-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 11:45am

Originally posted by Chris_H

Did I say that _I_  have the new ideas?   

It is good to discuss any that come to light though and be open to them, as opposed to throttle them at birth, which seems to be a tendency here.


Love the thought process from A2Z on RS buying Bewl and effectivel having rental/hire ownership - pay and play scenario. Wont work everywhere but the idea is great.


Bewl Valley SC  went into administration because  it agreed a rent of £160,000 per annum. Add rates at 40% or so.



That's one hell of a lot of boat rentals and sales to make, to cover the costs, from hardly a central location.



I think it's a bit rich telling accusing us all of luddite and closed minding thinking when you seem not to know some core facts. Even arch-mischief iGRF has had the balls to become commodore of his club with a view to making a contribution/difference and he's not the only one on here by a long chalk to have given up time to make their clubs a success.



So forgive me for coming back at you, when I am normally only positive (or trying to make jokes) on here but the 'they ought to do something (different)' condescending sniping is arguably worse than some of the trolling here (if it ain't simply that)



-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 11:47am
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by Chris_H

Did I say that _I_  have the new ideas?   

It is good to discuss any that come to light though and be open to them, as opposed to throttle them at birth, which seems to be a tendency here.


Love the thought process from A2Z on RS buying Bewl and effectivel having rental/hire ownership - pay and play scenario. Wont work everywhere but the idea is great.


Bewl Valley SC  went into administration because  it agreed a rent of £160,000 per annum. Add rates at 40% or so.


That's one hell of a lot of boat rentals and sales to make, to cover the costs, from hardly a central location.


I think it's a bit rich telling accusing us all of luddite and closed minding thinking when you seem not to know some core facts. Even arch-mischief iGRF has had the balls to become commodore of his club with a view to making a contribution/difference and he's not the only one on here by a long chalk to have given up time to make their clubs a success.


So forgive me for coming back at you, when I am normally only positive (or trying to make jokes) on here but the 'they ought to do something (different)' condescending sniping is arguably worse than some of the trolling here (if it ain't simply that)



Love you too and thankyou for your feedback. Provoking open discussion is my only goal. Wink
Hands across the water  Clap



Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 11:50am
Folk do tend to become polarised when under stress and folk in this country are stressed, many will deny it of course and then carry on being stressed. Covid, the restrictions and prior/yet to come political crap and disagreements.....it takes it's toll. We all react differently of course, some hide away, some get aggressive.

Personally (and vaguely on topic) Covid is a worry having elderly parents but the reaction and effect of  the restrictions are more of a concern to me, I don't believe they are sustainable. Too many clubs are being overly timid. Plans and methods could be put in place that would make sailing more "Normal".

.....but I suppose Exec Coms  have to listen the majority of the members and if the members want to be overly (IMO) cautious then that's the way it is.

Another issue is that all of the precautions that need to be put in place to free things up require extra work and we all know that people have been less inclined to volunteer in recent years. Perhaps an extra temporary position on the exec com for dealing with all things covid and the management thereof? Every club in the country must have a medical expert with management experience?

Regarding attitudes to the institution:
Yes sailors generally are helpful and welcoming so long as an individual you meet a certain set of criteria. No point going into what those criteria are now, it'll only cause another argument and anyway, those issues have been fruitlessly discussed on here many times before. For sailors from sailing families who have been sailing since childhood it's generally quite easy to fit in. For adult beginners it may not be quite so easy. I'm an adult starter, started about 15yrs ago and my experience has been very mixed. I've met some great people who I hope I could call friends for many years to come, on the other hand there has been some trauma. My prior experience, which has been extremely broad and varied did not prepare me well for the institution of sailing. Take it from me, to someone who still remembers being a non sailor the institution of sailing appears at times to have an extremely rarefied atmosphere.

These observations are all general and of course there are exceptions but I believe they apply to a large number of adult starters.  




Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

Did I say that _I_  have the new ideas?   Wink
It is good to discuss any that come to light though and be open to them, as opposed to throttle them at birth, which seems to be a tendency here.

Love the thought process from A2Z on RS buying Bewl and effectivel having rental/hire ownership - pay and play scenario. Wont work everywhere but the idea is great.

Chris - I have in the past been a bit of a dick on here to stir things up and try and get people to think differently but even by my measure you really are being a dick. Grab a seat before you make more enemies!


-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 12:50pm
And we wonder why this forum attracts so few posters..... NicolaJayne was right ....


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

And we wonder why this forum attracts so few posters..... NicolaJayne was right ....

Male, pale and stale? Be careful Chris, I think you are older than me! Tongue


-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by H2


Originally posted by Chris_H

And we wonder why this forum attracts so few posters..... NicolaJayne was right ....

Male, pale and stale? Be careful Chris, I think you are older than me!†Tongue

But I am definitely not stale...
Anyway. I shall leave this thread, but not the site, before it becomes personal 😉


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 2:55pm

"Too many clubs are being overly timid"


Sign of the times and an inevitable consequence of allowing lawyers to work on contingency fees, encouraging ambulance chasing in every aspect of life. Everything that goes wrong has to be somebody's fault nowadays, not just Murphy's Law, sh1t happens (or you weren't looking where you were going).


It's a shame our sport, which has, inherently, personal responsibility at its core has been infected too; covid is not half as virulent or, arguably, dangerous.



-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 3:03pm
My club isn't concerned about being sued, they are concerned about spreading a disease, majority of the members are in the at risk group, younger members who are impatient with this, need to realise 20 to 40 year age group is almost exclusively responsible for spread of the disease, I suppose because they are immune they aren't so concerned, problem is they are taking it to their parents and grandparents.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 4:20pm
Schools are due to reopen next week.  My area has been quite lightly affected so far, but this week 5 pubs and the local golf club have been closed due to an outbreak.  The measures that clubs put in place are not generally to stop them being sued but to, sensibly, reduce the spread.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by fab100

it's a shame our sport, which has, inherently, personal responsibility at its core has been infected too; covid is not half as virulent or, arguably, dangerous.

fear and greed - the ultimate evils.

The only thing Covid has brought home is carpe diem.... if sailing clubs are offering a bit of hope in an otherwise gloomy outlook, embrace for it now.  You'll bound to get a few newbies sticking around for drysuit season.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 8:46pm
Had a lovely race tonight, preceeded by a cream tea and followed by chips by the campervan. Very nice it was too.

Before that I'd spent the day running Sailability, where we had 9 boats out for the afternoon, all either singlehanded or sailed by household members. Also had 8 or 9 volunteers down helping, who get as much out of the session as the sailors.

All in all a great day at the club.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Aug 20 at 9:35pm
Good day for it too, lovely place to sail, very helpful friendly members too, always smile when I think of Whitefriars.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 8:19am
Originally posted by 423zero

My club isn't concerned about being sued, they are concerned about spreading a disease, majority of the members are in the at risk group, younger members who are impatient with this, need to realise 20 to 40 year age group is almost exclusively responsible for spread of the disease, I suppose because they are immune they aren't so concerned, problem is they are taking it to their parents and grandparents.

I don't think the skew to younger infections is as dramatic as you might think. The tests are skewed to those who are ill with the virus. And for a long time you could only get a test if hospitalised. And because those who are older were more likely to be ill / hospitalised it seemed like the infections were more prevalent in the old. 

As we have fewer older people seriously ill, and yet keep increasing testing, encouraging more from younger groups to get tested and doing more testing of non-symptomatic people then this is going to seem like more young people are getting the virus, whereas the reality could be that more young people are being tested and that only now we're now seeing a less skewed picture of what the demographics of the infected people is.

Secondly, even if cases among the young are going up, then so what? Yes, it's not risk free for the individual, but the personal risk certainly requires no where near the same lifestyle altering precautions are you might see in those who are 60+.  And we're not seeing an increase in death rate, which suggests those who are getting infected are not infecting the vulnerable. 

Of course the papers love to demonise the young. But the fact is, the biggest failing of the vulnerable was when hospitals were discharged en masse circulating the virus between wards, care homes, and nursing homes and the community. This action was taken largely because there was a fear hospitals would be overwhelmed and 'fit and healthy' 50-70 years old's wouldn't get the care they needed. It also lead to many thousands of indirect covid deaths. 

So far the actions of the young in locking down have been completely selfless. For the protection of their elders and to the detriments of their education and careers. For those who who are older it's a far more selfish motivation, made a lot easier in many cases by a decent wedge of the mortgage being paid and a nice pension to look forward to.

Why do your older members see fit to close down the club for the young? No one is forcing the older members to go to the club, why don't they just stay away? It's personal choice? Let the impatient 20-40 year olds get on with enjoying the membership they have paid for. 


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 8:30am
Hayling changing rooms were open for a week or so and now they're closed. 

I don't think they really needed to be 'open' to the membership as I do see it as a big risk area. Reserving them for individuals who really need their use (disability or emergency). 

On the racing front I think we're learnt how to do decent racing with small volunteer numbers. Club line starts at high tide using club marks. Numbers have been up, but I don't think this is because of the new format being 'better', but because the the typical other life events such as weddings, birthdays, holidays and festivals are all on hold. However, I do think the lessons learnt will make club racing more sustainable from a volunteer basis going forward. 

It's also been great to see so many families and young people down the club. There's also a lot more multi-sport activity, with people free to spend more time at the club they're dipping in and out of windsurfing and sup and kayaking dependent on weather. The only 'plan' for the weekend seems to be to go to the club, then once their the activity is moulded around the weather. Previously, people would only come down for one activity, and if the weather wasn't great for that they wouldn't come down at all. I hope this new attitude remains, but I think once other events start up then we'll return to people only showing up with certainty for major events (a class open, or fed week) and the rest of time just sneaking a few hours for their favourite activity when the forecast suits.


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 27 Aug 20 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by 423zero

My club isn't concerned about being sued, they are concerned about spreading a disease, majority of the members are in the at risk group, younger members who are impatient with this, need to realise 20 to 40 year age group is almost exclusively responsible for spread of the disease, I suppose because they are immune they aren't so concerned, problem is they are taking it to their parents and grandparents.



.......contact with and stimulation from other people is a human need, not a want. Being without it or even being on reduced rations can lead to health problems. The need for contact does diminish as we get older but it never disappears completely. The need for contact with their piers is particularly strong in the young when they are forming and modifying their own identities.

I have a Grand Daughter who is staying with us at the moment, she is a ray of sunshine, a delight to be with. Chatty, humorous, energetic and enthusiastically making plans for the future. She has many friends who she socialises with (sensibly IMO but not as sensibly as some would like no doubt)) and we then listen to tales of the resulting dramas......nothing better.

Seeing her like this V's risk of contracting virus.......no contest.

The need for contact with and stimulation from others has been severely underestimated by most during this pandemic. The impulse to socialise is incredibly strong and the effects of denying the need are quite debilitating.



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com