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Plan for the return to the water...

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13588
Printed Date: 11 Jul 20 at 9:53pm
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Topic: Plan for the return to the water...
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: Plan for the return to the water...
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 2:08pm
So what would be sensible?

Single handers

Limit to 12 kts wind?

PPE for rescue craft?

Restricted Bar access?

Different race styles? (Time trials around course, pursuit style)

Assuming that is we do one day get the green light, before the virus just up and disappears of it's own volition.

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Replies:
Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 3:18pm
Well, stick to government guidelines first and foremost.  
  • Alone or with members of your own household.  
  • Stay 2m away from those outside your household. 
  • Exercise locally (no more time in car than afloat).  
  • Club bars and restaurants closed in line with regulations. 
  • At risk groups stay away.  
Additional measures whilst ashore:   
  • Limit numbers that can access site at once. Maybe some sort of sailing rota (half the alphabet each day, cutting the possible number of people you could meet over time in half). Only one or two people from each row of the boat park. 
  • Limit car parking. 
  • Limit access to indoor space, possibly have social distancing markings. Clean door handles regularly etc. 
  • prohibit gatherings or picnics at the club. 
  • Face masks on land.
  • Signage reminding members of new measures. 
Additional guidance for going afloat:  
  • 'Free' sailing only.  
  • Stay well within your comfort zone.  
  • Be self sufficient.  
  • Have a maximum wind limit.  
  • Carry phones  / radio (lots of call outs can be stopped if only the vessel could communicate that they don't require assistance).  
  • Carry a long tow rope and anchor.  
  • Carry out extra checks on your dinghy.  
  • Have a family member know when you launch and return or have a look out buddy.  
Longer term:  
  • Use testing and contact tracing if these become widespread.  
  • Support boats / race box manned by single households.  
  • Reduced schedule, with limited entries.  
  • Informal rabbit run racing.  
  • Take-away / outdoor eating only.  


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 3:31pm
The only promotion I have seen yesterday about getting us back sailing featured a photo of Luke Patience and crew inches apart and out of the water crashing through a wave. No problem for Olympic standard sailors, but as a way to convince non sailors that there is a risk of using rescue and medical services- it will take some beating.


https://afloat.ie/sail/events/coronavirus-and-boating/item/46145-restart-racing-the-call-of-special-interest-group-to-lobby-for-sector-s-fair-treatment-in-britain


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 3:33pm
I would have thought that you can get by without any access to a club house - turn up ready to go sailing, or change by your car.

As long as social distancing is maintained, no reason to limit numbers ... risk doesn't change, and the more people on the water the more scope to self help if something goes wrong.  If the person next door to me in the boat park is there, then one of us needs to move a boat further away.

A wind and condition limit that ensures the requirement for "emergency services" is negligible, probably by way of a risk assessment matrix.

Not sure about phones, but if I am sailing on my own, or with a buddy at sea, I take a handheld VHF with me.

There is a lot that can be achieved without any formal race management, and I suspect we could be satisfied with this for quite a while (when compared to no sailing), if this means less risk for those running our fun.

At our club, we often run Wednesday evening racing one-up, so no reason why this could not be extended to the weekends, though might need workarounds, like using voice memos or video to record handicap timings, and accepting that the signals might be a bit sketchy.


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Happily living in the past


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 3:47pm
I think restricting numbers would be sensible at first. At very least a poll among the membership just to see what that first day back might look like. 

A few other people down at the same time is good, to have extra eyes. But, for a place like HISC, with thousands of members, you need a bit of control over numbers at least until you have an idea of how many will show up. If someone took a photo from distance if could look very bad, even if distancing was appropriate on the ground.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 4:02pm
For us pond sailors a lot of the risks are reduced because the tide will not sweep us out to sea and if something fails its a short walk or swim back to safety. I am hoping that our local pond opens to free sailing in May with changing in the car park (club will remain closed) and informal sailing or informal racing with no safety boats.

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H2 #115


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 4:59pm
1) make absolutely sure if you go sailing it's a solo activity (or crew from member of the same household) 

2) make sure you do it coastal from public beaches / slips so your club officers have plausible deniability of your actions

3) style it out if you get labelled a c*nt by the Daily Mail readership if it goes tits up




4) Join the RNLI, with sods law on your side, you might just not need them this time


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 5:02pm
by the way, is dinghy insurance still valid from the main insurers if you bugger your boat up when sailing in a lockdown?


Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 5:08pm
Looks like it'll be a while longer before those of us with 2-person boats will be allowed to go out in our boats. Or is this the death-knell of crewed-boat sailing?


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 5:10pm
The flying dutchman will become the most popular dinghy. Easy to stay 2 metres apart

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 5:16pm
Re insurance, there's this on RYA https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/bsm-lockdown-insurance-update.aspx
https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/coronavirus-advice-and-information-for-recreational-boaters.aspx

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Robert


Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 7:33pm
For my lake, principal cause of rescue is "mast stuck in mud".

Solution - masthead floats...

Alternatively, walk/swim ashore and recover dinghy later...

We need to amend the SIs - 2m separation between dinghies - you don't hail, just cough loudly!

Possibly timed starts:- each dinghy starts 1 minute after another, then lap timed...

Colin


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 28 Apr 20 at 10:41pm
Why 2 m separation between dinghies? Most are two metres wide or there abouts, so long as you are not crashing into each other then you’ll be 2m apart or more

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RS300 and RS200, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 7:20am
Rare for a small single hander to be 2m wide.

I can think of quite a few scenarios where helms are going to be closer than that, but all of them seem fleeting compared to shopping for eggs, bread and flour.

For those sailing on handicap, pursuit races do seem to be the answer, though to begin with I think just going sailing away from pinch points like start lines and Marks, is more like on land social distancing. Especially if using the "exercise" excuse for a sailing fix

On shore contact still seems the most likely to pass infection.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 7:21am
Separation between boats is not a problem, you won't get anywhere near as close to someone else as you do in a shop or in the street or park even under current restrictions. It's for fleeting seconds and outdoors the risk of infection is shown to be minimal.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 7:49am
I'd agree with that - safety boat and committee boat excluded, I can't see the real infection risk when actually out sailing, windsurfing, paddling etc.  As Rupert says, social distancing on shore as per any other sports club will be the critical zone for assessment.  


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 8:25am
Yeah the club grounds ashore act as a bit of funnel that each sailor passes through on their way to the water where they again disperse. 
I think that's the biggest problem with organised sailing, is that it would create peaks in use. If you have a 11 am start, everyone arrive at 10, rigs in the dinghy park til 10.30, in the changing rooms from 1030 to 1045 (if open) and on the launch slip together after that. 

I think it will be difficult to have organised racing like that until outdoor gatherings of 50+ people are allowed. There's certainly some steps clubs could take to mange this situation, akin to those being taken in retail now. But, there would definitely need to be a relaxation of the lock-down regulations would that would dictate to a large extent the precise measures required. But i don't see the actual racing format itself having to change. 

But, free sailing, where people turn up when they fancy could be manageable fairly early on (possibly even now if the MCA / Harbour Master changed their tune). And you maybe do a gate start with a couple of boats who are on the water at the same time would be the next logical step. 



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 9:31am
A question, does anyone know, how long the virus is active in the asymptomatic?

I mean assuming we're not asymptomatic and we've all been obeying the lock down rules, the risk of us coming together has to be a lot less than a visit to the supermarket where we'd be mixing with folk who haven't necessarily locked down due to being a care worker (now very high risk) or other key worker.

Building sites are opening up on May 11th I gather, folk I know are being called back to work.

Changing rooms can be avoided outbound by getting into your kit at home, which I do quite often in the winter.

Most of our boats are around 4 mtr fore & aft and with approaching 2 mtr width doesn't exactly bring us into close contact with each other.

So the boat park might have to be managed and the other club environs, even so I don't see it as high risk at all.

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Posted By: seasailor
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 9:54am
Personally, I can't see sailing at my club starting anytime soon.

I wouldn't bother going if I had to get changed in the car (which would be parked out on the public highway) or drive home in a wet wetsuit.

Nor would I bother if I couldn't socialise in the club afterwards.

I suspect enough members would be of a similar view to mean it would not be worth trying to organise anything.

That and the fact that it takes at least 6 people to launch and retrieve the safety boat in any kind of a breeze/sea and you can't do it while all being 2m apart, pretty much rules it out for the time being.


Posted By: Mozzy
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 9:58am
Coronavirus: Sport should start again 'from bottom up not top down'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 10:08am
For me changing at the car, sailing the Soslow and having any conversation from a distance appeals and I am looking forward to some changes in Govt policy to allow this. After such a long gap, just being out in the boat will be worth it.

Rescue is not an option for 95%, I know my limits and cant remember when I last needed help.

I think the issue will be how to gently suggest to the less experienced in windy conditions that it may be a good idea to stay onshore?

Upper wind limit for all?



Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Mozzy

Coronavirus: Sport should start again 'from bottom up not top down'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031

That's very encouraging,  so far much press coverage has been on getting elite sport going very soon,  but as the article covers grass roots may be easier (and safer)  to restart
 




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Online Sailing Results, GPS Tracking & Event Management


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 12:19pm
And far more beneficial, watching sport has no health benefits that I can see.

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

And far more beneficial, watching sport has no health benefits that I can see.


Being part of something has enormous benefits to mental health.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 1:51pm
A different take on returning to Club sailing.  I hear that a West Country club has written to members who are essentially holiday visitors from elsewhere in the UK to say they will not be welcome this summer (not sure if those were the actual words used.)  Understandable from the point of view of local members. For instance Cornwall has only one major hospital and (hearsay again,) most of the current Corvid patients are not locals.  But tricky to write to members and say "don't come" without causing offence, especially as we can guess, but don't yet know where we will be in August.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 2:22pm
Heard from another attempted suicide today, friend of a friend, not that close,but significant that my suicide to covid rate is now 2 -1 in favour of suicide attempt. Apparently they tried to get him committed for his own protection but all the mental health facilities are absolutely rammed, no room anywhere around here.

None of this necessarily relevant to the discussion but sport and recreation play more of a health role in certain types than I think is fully appreciated by the amply salaried suited & gold plated pension types.

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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 4:11pm
German infection rate increased since lockdown eased, fears they may have to step back.

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Robert


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 29 Apr 20 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Mozzy

Coronavirus: Sport should start again 'from bottom up not top down'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52465031

Thats pretty much to be expected I think, we will be club sailing some months before we go travelling.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:07am
Originally posted by iGRF

Heard from another attempted suicide today, friend of a friend, not that close,but significant that my suicide to covid rate is now 2 -1 in favour of suicide attempt. Apparently they tried to get him committed for his own protection but all the mental health facilities are absolutely rammed, no room anywhere around here.


None of this necessarily relevant to the discussion but sport and recreation play more of a health role in certain types than I think is fully appreciated by the amply salaried suited & gold plated pension types.


Our offices were broken into over the weekend - a few hundred quid in petty cash and my new mobile phone I'd yet to set up.  On top of that £10k's worth of damage by my rough estimate, which probably means it's more once the trades see its an insurance claim.



This kind of thing is just the sort of trigger someone needs who is feeling very, very worried about the financial solvency of their business, their family and their staff.





BTW - this isn't a cry for help, touch wood, we should be OK and we will ride this out, bad debts withstanding.  However the burglary was indiscriminate, and just further proof we are far from 'all in this together'


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:47am
Sorry to hear that TT I wonder if you'll get as good a response from the Police as if you'd reported someone sunbathing.

If it's any consolation, it's touching everyone, unlike any business stress know by anyone before even with my lifespan, post war austerity,seventys three day week, 80's & 90's boom, bust economys, the 2008 crash, none of that forced actual businesses to close, this is a totally new phenomena, not one any of us are particularly happy about. I say everyone, some of the bike trade have been doing well after a disaster in March and I've sold more bike helmets than at any time in my recent history, but it's all just survival buttons. I was please to read of the 'cure' or preventative drug they have in the states, but it's not going to come soon enough for many businesses. Just hope we can all hold our nerves for another month or so and pray that May the 4th be with us.

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:49am
Sorry to hear that TT I wonder if you'll get as good a response from the Police as if you'd reported someone sunbathing.

If it's any consolation, it's touching everyone, unlike any business stress known by anyone before, even with my lifespan, post war austerity,seventies three day week, 80's & 90's boom bust, economys, the 2008 crash, none of that forced actual healthy businesses to close, this is a totally new phenomena, not one any of us are particularly happy about. I say everyone, some of the bike trade have been doing well after a disaster in March and I've sold more bike helmets than at any time in my recent history, but it's all just survival buttons. I was please to read of the 'cure' or preventative drug they have in the states, but it's not going to come soon enough for many businesses. Just hope we can all hold our nerves for another month or so and pray that May the 4th be with us.

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 2:32pm
Thanks Graeme, The police came along dusted and printed.  Gave us the obligatory crime number so the general insurance premium paying public can reimburse us for our losses.  To be fair, they were nice enough, they had a fair clue who the perps are but are powerless to do much about it.

A tacit acknowledgement that a court case if they did catch someone would be yet more wasted time and effort - for seemingly no significant deterrent for re-offending and no recoup of losses outside of the insurance systems.

I dunno - a return to normal would be good now, whatever that is. As you say, hang on in for a month longer...  i'm certainly begnning to come around to H2's way of thinking!!!


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 3:45pm
Whatever happens any guidelines from the government will generic and all sports will be lumped in the same bag so Sailing probably won’t be OK until gyms and the like are allowed to open.

That said I like the idea of sharing strategies. The club house has to be the highest risk area. Thought I’m working from home my work is still open with a number of good ideas. Washing hands compulsion every hour, hand sanitiser in numerous locations, all doors except loo doors wedged open, we all had our own hooks to open the loo door - fantastic for sailing clubs everyone looking like Captain Hook. Depending on the layout of the club could have curtains on the changing room doors but i would go to the club changed and return home in my kit.

The safety cover is a far more complex number, two people on a rib. Could have PPE but there are more deserving people still short. Not a big fan of mast floats, have had a boat sail away from me following a capsize with a float fitted. 


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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 3:47pm
Thought the Police had been disbanded, can't remember last time I saw one, need to do something about the lunatic driving.

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Robert


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 3:53pm
Hey TT, sorry to hear about the break in and also whilst I wish my doom-cast was wrong, I increasingly am convinced we are a few months away from a major tipping point in the economy.

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H2 #115


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by H2

Hey TT, sorry to hear about the break in and also whilst I wish my doom-cast was wrong, I increasingly am convinced we are a few months away from a major tipping point in the economy.

I think you are right about the economy and though sport contributes to the economy there are much more important sectors than need to be back to full strength as a priority over people’s leisure activities. The stress caused by a major economic downturn eclipse any mental heath benefits of going sailing. 


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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by tink

Whatever happens any guidelines from the government will generic and all sports will be lumped in the same bag 

Surely the metrics should be about travel and distancing, plus safety cover, applying the principles and rules that are set down


Sailing is not rugby or football with all that proximity and physical contact. Single handed sailing does not involve getting within 2m of anyone else - easier to 'distance' than the supermarket has been in my experience. Nor does rigging and launching; it just might take a couple of minutes longer and mean not helping each other with trolleys. No big deal with our jetties and concrete ramps.


I'd not advocate driving from London to sail at HISC but people are driving their bikes further than the five miles I live from my club (which I could cycle to and from, alternatively)


The clubhouse and changing rooms are not facilities I'd forego in the long term, but not using them is moot to actually going for a sail. I'll happily change by my boat or at home. Oh, and our separate race hut is computerised to the extent that I can run a two-start 50 boat Wednesday evening on my own if necessary


So that's the first two; certainly more within the rules than if i decided to drive 15 miles to the closest B&Q.


Safety: sailing has always been about taking personal responsibility and our club rules permit 'free' sailing at any time during daylight, without safety cover.  The pond is 95% walk-ashore depth and my mast does not get stuck in the mud. And as I said the other day, all the cycle-for-exercise lot rely on an NHS ambulance and two paramedics as their safety cover for when they fall off or get hit by a car when shooting red lights (patent pending G Ramsey)


I'd argue therefore that the decision is not generic and about blanket bans but a matter of whether each club can work within the rules we've all got used to. Frensham is very different to launching across a shingle beach into a strong tide with a danger of being swept out to sea, or going out in a yacht. 


What we should be looking at are the principles and rules already in place and taking a view as to whether we can sail and comply. For most, it maybe a no, for some, it's a tick IMHO.


edit addition: rules are generally accepted and adhered to when the make sense. When they are illogical and pointlessly restrictive, they fall into disrepute and get ignored.



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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 5:05pm
Listened to most of the daily briefing it is a long time before we’re getting sailing, and if far more informed people that us think that’s right I am happy with that. Obviously there are many contributors here that think they deserve special concessions but quite simply they don’t there are far more important factors than someone  wanting to go sailing. 

Going to B&Q is not a high risk activity and will stimulate the economy far more than sailing 


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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by tink


Going to B&Q is not a high risk activity and will stimulate the economy far more than sailing 

And boost business for A&E departments.

I'm not looking for concessions, just constant and sensible applications of the rules, but not holding my breath or planning on going off-piste


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 6:15pm
I read of fifteen cycling deaths since the lockdown somewhere in my browsing, which is fifteen more than I've noticed for sailing windsurfing and kitesurfing combined in the UK in the last year, so I regard it total hypocrisy by our 'rescue' services, albeit they are voluntary so sacrosanct from criticism.

Personally whichever sport gets the green light first I'll vote with my feet and imv this could be make or break for dinghy sailing if everyone gets too precious or more ridiculously over zealous, once we're over this. Some common sense has to prevail eventually, not saying it's now, but it's going to have to be fairly soon, certainly before June is out.



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Posted By: Wiclif
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 6:18pm
I think the biggest problem for this country is travel on public transport.  There was a recent article saying that for correct distancing, this would reduce passenger capacity to 15% of normal.

So add 6.5 times busses, trains, tubes, it’s not going to happen. The distancing rules are based on being inside, and compared to that 2 people in a rescue boat in open air is irrelevant.  6 people launching and recovering the rescue boat, that may be a different matter.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 6:31pm
Griff, got more chance of plaiting fog than getting sailing acceptable before autumn, exit strategy needs to be about the economy, nothing should detract from this.

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Robert


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 6:59pm
That’s not really true is it. If it was all about the economy we wouldn’t have had a lock down in the first place and would have followed the Swedish model, which to be honest was always the government’s preferred plan anyway. 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 7:11pm
Bikes are a means of transport, you can go to work or the shops, not going to help sailing by keep bleating and wringing your hands about it.

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Robert


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Bikes are a means of transport, you can go to work or the shops, not going to help sailing by keep bleating and wringing your hands about it.

With respect, you and a few others are doing the same thing from the other side of the argument.

If restrictions are eased and you still feel its not right for you to go sailing no-one is going to force you to.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:20pm
I am looking forward to going sailing, why wouldn't I? I sail every week all year. My club is about a 10 minute easy walk from my house. Sailing is not a means of exercise.

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Robert


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:58pm
If restrictions are eased, I can see sailing as a pastime coming back long before it does as a sport. Many clubs stopped racing before closing the water. I can see water being opened again where possible fairly soon, declining illness numbers allowing. Racing I can see taking longer, and training courses longer still, though a level 2 course with say a couple plus one instructor could work sooner.
Sailability, with vulnerable people, longer still sadly.

I can't see how getting the economy up and running precludes restarting sport. Surely they can run parallel and it might help.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I am looking forward to going sailing, why wouldn't I? I sail every week all year. My club is about a 10 minute easy walk from my house. Sailing is not a means of exercise.

it bloody is with my boat


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Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I am looking forward to going sailing, why wouldn't I? I sail every week all year. My club is about a 10 minute easy walk from my house. Sailing is not a means of exercise.


If sailing is not exercise then neither is walking and this should be banned too. I doubt my heart rate is challenged more walking than sailing in anything other than no wind.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:03pm
Walking working as exercise for me! Depends on base fitness levels, I suppose. As for sailing, doesn't it depend on boat and wind as well as fitness?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:15pm
The problem with all of this is purpose. If the purpose of social distancing is to keep infection rates low then we should focus on the principles behind the policy and not the perception of the activity. I cant go windsurfing or sailing locally even though they clearly are inline with the principles of social distancing. I can however go out doing 100k cycles or pick up a chainsaw in the garden. As ever we will be led by the majority of city dwellers who are all uppity that someone living in the middle of nowhere might be having a better time than them.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:19pm
A brisk walk is really good for you, not talking about a stroll. Sailing is a sport that to be really good at you need to follow a fitness regime, it is in itself not a form of exercise, cruising in a relaxed manner to a beach for a picnic, will do nothing for your fitness, however it would be totally wonderful.

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Robert


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:31pm
All I would say is if sail racing is not an exercise then you're doing it wrong.

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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by iGRF

All I would say is if sail racing is not an exercise then you're doing it wrong.

Clearly stir craziness is setting in, I keep agreeing with GRF



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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:35pm
I'd make another selfish point, sport is part of the economy

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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 9:58pm
When I look at the money I spend a year on sports, I couldn't agree more, Sailing, Kayaking, Cycling, Surfing and not forgetting Motorbike, oh and camping.

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Robert


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I am looking forward to going sailing, why wouldn't I? I sail every week all year. My club is about a 10 minute easy walk from my house. Sailing is not a means of exercise.


Yes you’ve claimed that before. You claimed that it couldn’t be because you had to train to be fit to do it.

That means that just about every sport doesn’t qualify as exercise!


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 10:24pm
.


Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 10:41pm
If sailing is not a priority then why is walking a priority. I dont get any enjoyment or mental benefit from wandering round aimlessly and guess what it does not really maintain my fitness. If sailing can be done whilst following social distancing rules then why is it frowned upon other than through other peoples envy. Its a valid point that is unanswered by the pro lockdown gang. Why not give everyone a 25kg sack of rice and weld everyones doors shut for a month. We could have zero new infections at the end of the month. Soinds better than my primary interest being stopped when i cant see the technical reason behind it.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Apr 20 at 10:51pm
You know what, I seriously wonder about some of you lot sometimes.

The reason what we do is such a great sport, unlike certainly anything else I've experienced and I've done my fair share. It doesn't only exercise physically it's a mental workout, like 3D chess whilst rowing.. There is no other sport like it, nothing, nada. Hell these days I can only keep it up for about twenty minutes and that's on a good day.

And bloody hell am I missing it.

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Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 5:48am
Originally posted by 423zero

Griff, got more chance of plaiting fog than getting sailing acceptable before autumn, exit strategy needs to be about the economy, nothing should detract from this.


Spot on

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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: Sailerf
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 6:54am
Er this is the funniest and saddest thing I have read in a long time. My favourite point is going to B and Q is not dangerous.(lets stick lots of people on a metal box and let them breath the same air wile they randomly walk around touching the same things) Mast floats, wind limits, changing room doors left open , rescue crew in PPE ( who's going to be turning up for that duty) How about taking personal responsibility for ones self ? If you wish to go for a sail and you are lucky enough to have a bit of water close to you that you can access and the conditions fall inside your personal comfort zone. You respect others by keeping clear and you are comfortably you are not going to need assistance then the likely hood is that it will be good for you physical and mental health. Yes there is risk but so is there walking down road or cycling. Wile this is unlike today its not that far off for us. 

     ‘If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.’
George Orwell 
    


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 7:08am
Originally posted by iGRF

You know what, I seriously wonder about some of you lot sometimes.

The attitude of some people in general during this crisis is just bizarre, and one or two people on here are all over it too - but if they have to sit indoors until the autumn I don't blame them for being peed off. What I don't get is why they think the rest of civilisation has to do it too. Luckily this is 2020 and the lunatic fringe shouldn't be able to take over. 

Its a bit like that Harry Enfield sketch "Oi sailors - NO!!!!LOL

Unless of course its me - I found myself agreeing with Nicola Sturgeon a few days ago which does worry me.

Going forward I know one club is putting together what looks like a plan to get pretty much 80% normality back just by changing around the clubhouse - pretty much what they've done in supermarkets. I think they're a bit optimistic but at least they're trying! At this stage i'd settle for davidyacht's rabbit races with like minded people!




Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 7:14am
Originally posted by Sailerf

Mast floats, wind limits, changing room doors left open , rescue crew in PPE 

Thats not an unrealistic picture of what we might have to do this season, especially the PPE.

Sailing this year will be different. I completely reject the idea that it's impossible (Or unacceptable - unacceptable to whom exactly?) but those of us who want it will have adapt how we partake.


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 7:22am
Originally posted by iGRF

You know what, I seriously wonder about some of you lot sometimes.

The reason what we do is such a great sport, unlike certainly anything else I've experienced and I've done my fair share. It doesn't only exercise physically it's a mental workout, like 3D chess whilst rowing.. There is no other sport like it, nothing, nada. Hell these days I can only keep it up for about twenty minutes and that's on a good day.

And bloody hell am I missing it.

Fully agree it is an awesome sport. I have 14 year old daughter mad keen and every weekend it is a constant nag ‘can we go sailing?’  Why why why why etc. 

But in years to come when were all sailing again it is her generation that are going to be paying for it, they are not get a proper education and their going to leave school into a massive economic down turn.

I think that the people that are keen to get back are old gits that are upset they are loosing their twilight sailing months, years. Well forget sailing totally for 2020, go work on your fitness and extend you sailing career. If by late August we get come casual sailing in that will be fantastic. But please think about how this impacts the nation as a whole and not your myopic view of the world.




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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 7:32am
Exactly so Tink.




Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 7:54am
Sorry Tink - we will be free sailing at our club in May. The tide is turning.

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H2 #115


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 8:07am
Outdoor work and pastimes to be prioritized apparently, so clubs may be able to open water soon at least, with access to indoor parts restricted. Racing may not be on the cards, but that doesn't really matter to me as things stand.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 9:17am
Originally posted by H2

Sorry Tink - we will be free sailing at our club in May. The tide is turning.



By August I bet the whole thing will be forgotten about, once the rabid media finds some other diversion to fixate about. Trump election campaign, Collapsing economy and job losses, Boris's son turns out to be black... whatever, we'll be sailing, no doubt in my mind.

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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 9:49am
Nothing from RYA, H2 are you taking a unilateral decision? If there is official guidance I would like to pass it on to my club.

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Robert


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 9:54am
Life is risky, always has been. It seems like the UK has been on a precipice of some sort for years. The latest hot topic seems like the final straw. A very real threat/risk  that has been covered by a press that's desperate for sales. I suspect some people are suffering from anxiety fatigue. Some have gone into fight mode, some have gone into flight mode........understandable, some are more vulnerable than others. 

Reading the news from other countries that have come out of lockdown I'm optimistic. 
Stories that are obviously scare mongering and written purely to boost sales (most of them in the UK) are best ignored IMO.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 9:57am
Originally posted by 423zero

Nothing from RYA, H2 are you taking a unilateral decision? If there is official guidance I would like to pass it on to my club.

Our expectation is that as soon as the Government eases restriction and allows people to move around more that free sailing will be allowed - speaking as a flag officer for our club and the person responsible for sailing activity. The club will remain closed and duties will remain cancelled so no organised racing but I suspect ad hoc informal racing will start almost immediately based on discussion with members. The RYA will just mirror any Government advice and as a club it is useful input but not taken as the "law".


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H2 #115


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 10:18am
I certainly agree with you on one thing H2.

RYA advice may well be useful (although to my mind in areas where it could have been actually helpful they are pretty grey) , anyway keeping on subject certainly not law and sometimes more of a stumbling block.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 10:27am
H2, thanks for info, unfortunately our water is local authority owned, got zero chance there.

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Robert


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 10:36am
Originally posted by 423zero

H2, thanks for info, unfortunately our water is local authority owned, got zero chance there.

Yes we are lucky that our water is under our control so the current closure is actually of our own making. When the Government asked people to stop moving around we took the decision to close the club but we could have remained open if we had wanted.


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H2 #115


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 11:07am
Despite being in the not until the government says so I do want to sail summer.

The one thing I forgot to say about what my work has done is contactless temperature monitoring. A duty could be to measure everyone arriving on site. Sub £100 and it would help. Now I agree it might cause some issues. At work go home because you’re 0.1degrees over no big issues, at a club maybe.




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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 11:20am
Working through this, but then have to go home and can only leave home for a hour, can understand peoples frustration, I am a rule observer though, would be difficult for me to just sail,would be forever looking over my shoulder, not that I am suggesting H2 intends to break the rules, he clearly states will be club decision.

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Robert


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:02pm
Thanks for the kind words back there H2 - enjoy the free sailing as soon you can!  

Conjecture here in Spain over use of surfboard from tomorrow - one gov official says yes, one says no.  We will be allowed out for 1hr exercise between 6am and 10am, then again 8pm to 11pm.... only once per day, individually.


Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:05pm
Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.


This is about plans, so what might happen, when we can. Can't see what's wrong with that?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Ozzytub
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:15pm
sailing isn't important but it somehting I would hope we could return to by the summer.
As others have said
Happy to change in car or at home and drive back in a wet wet suit(no need really Ill take it off and then change like I would at the beach)
Sail single handed(lucky here)
take sensible approach to rigging and launching.
Different classes on differnt days even if I only get 2 sails a month
I have holiday to use set up some mid week racing.
Set a low wind limit, single man the rib (eyes on water) and have a on shore crew only to be depolyed in emergency.
Having to continue to go into work during this time we have adapted and sailing can too.


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:24pm
Quite right - things will hopefully improve and we will get at least some social sailing

Its good physically, mentally and (within social distancing of course) socially

The negativity with regards to getting back on the water on this forum by a few posters is appalling

Obviously the glass half empty brigade


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.

Mike, the title of the thread is "Plan for return to the water" not "jail breakout" or are you proposing that we accept living like this forever? 


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 1:26pm
This thread is nothing to do with PLANNING it is all about people trying to justify their decisions by a getting a few people to agree with them so they don’t feel guilty doing something that they know is morally wrong. We are just past the peak, it has been hard but if we mess up the next bit we are going to pay for many many years. 




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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 1:36pm
The use of thermometers seems pointless given all of the information suggesting asymptomatic transmission. Having a high temp is typically not the first symptom either.

Initially I'd like the ability to at least get into the dinghy compound to finish the maintenance on my boats that was still outstanding.
After that some level of free sailing would be great and thankfully I don't sail at a waterboard owned lake, so hopefully we can get on the water reasonably quickly. As for racing the key will be rescue boat crews.

Of course we have to accept that the current restrictions are not designed to eradicate the virus only to minimise impact on the NHS. As such we need to some extent get used to living with it. There will of course be a long term risk to all of us and we as individuals will have to decide how much risk we are willing to put up with, until such time that the virus mutates into something less severe or indeed so severe that it kills people before it gets a chance to be transmitted further. I personally don't have much faith in a vaccine given the efficacy of the current flu vaccines.

Given that many of our clubs are propped up by the elderly stalwarts in the >70 category. It may be difficult to manage duties for a while.


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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by tink

This thread is nothing to do with PLANNING it is all about people trying to justify their decisions by a getting a few people to agree with them so they don’t feel guilty doing something that they know is morally wrong.

Why is it morally wrong? I don't think it's morally wrong. I can think of numerous things I could do now without even raising an eyebrow that make me more likely to catch or transmit this disease than getting in my boat and going sailing will.

Ive abstained for the duration of the current restrictions, but I'll be back on the water at the first possible opportunity that I consider is safe and appropriate and is OK with the club in question.

That moment may come for me before it does for you. Yes, we are now through the peak (At least they think we are) but that means now the people who need to shield themselves are going to have to be more reliant on themselves to do it than others to shield them by staying in. Sorry, that's how its going to have to work.


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by craiggo

 I personally don't have much faith in a vaccine given the efficacy of the current flu vaccines.

Given that many of our clubs are propped up by the elderly stalwarts in the >70 category. It may be difficult to manage duties for a while.

The flu vaccine is different as there are so many strains of flu they cant immunise for all off them, only whichever they think is going to be the big one in a given year. A COVID vaccine will be more like the measals vaccine in that its specific to COVIS - assuming of course that it doesn't mutate into something so different the vaccine becomes ineffective.

Re the >70's I think it goes without saying that the younger members are going to have to step up to plate if they want things to happen. This is mainly around grounds and building maintenance.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by Cirrus

Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.

Mike, the title of the thread is "Plan for return to the water" not "jail breakout" or are you proposing that we accept living like this forever? 


Thank you fab100 and read the first post tink

It was a thread aimed at exactly that, what plans could/can we put in place so we can get back on the water racing whilst doing our best to mitigate personal risk and risk to others.

Time trialling around the cans came to mind.

PPE for rescue crew, gloves, masks. Same I guess for Galley crew although at our place the new galley tenants have already been offering a take out service as the arrangement couldn't have occurred at the worse time for them.

Getting the rescue boat down the beach is going to need thinking about as its normally a 6 man affair.

Personally I'd rather be talking about a better upbeat future than dwelling on all the negatives as we were in the other Covid thread.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:00pm

Originally posted by tink

This thread is nothing to do with PLANNING it is all about people trying to justify their decisions by a getting a few people to agree with them so they don’t feel guilty doing something that they know is morally wrong. We are just past the peak, it has been hard but if we mess up the next bit we are going to pay for many many years. 




Sorry, that is absolute tosh; you are over-interpreting and assuming. Who here has stated they have made any such contravening decisions, let alone needing to justify them? Who has said anything about breaking the law? (which I read again today by the way and the legislation is not what they say on the TV news eg nowhere does it restrict to 1 hour of exercise per day, that I could see).


What you are getting here, I grant you, is those with a different perspective to you putting a case. That case being, for where and how some of us sail we could do so safely and without endangering others or calling on the services of the NHS or anyone else. All whilst taking less personal risk than going to the supermarket once a week. Not “we are going to” but “we could”. They are very different.


Personally, I’ve not driven further than a mile to buy food since this started and am not planning to change that. I get that there are muppets out there who seem totally oblivious and we all need to set an example to them.  


But, it is untenable that this goes on forever; the economic damage is going to get even more horrendous; there will be no tax revenue to pay for the NHS or anything else to the degree we are used to.


There has also been talk about allowing assembly with a ‘bubble’ at some point in the next few weeks - well mine would be  sailor based: family are all far too far away



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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

 

Re the >70's I think it goes without saying that the younger members are going to have to step up to plate if they want things to happen. This is mainly around grounds and building maintenance.
I wonder how many of those desperate to sail are also desperate to help strim the boat park, fix the pontoon, get buildings insurance quotes, get the RIB outboard serviced etc?


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by Cirrus

Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.

Mike, the title of the thread is "Plan for return to the water" not "jail breakout" or are you proposing that we accept living like this forever? 


Thank you fab100 and read the first post tink

It was a thread aimed at exactly that, what plans could/can we put in place so we can get back on the water racing whilst doing our best to mitigate personal risk and risk to others.

Time trialling around the cans came to mind.

PPE for rescue crew, gloves, masks. Same I guess for Galley crew although at our place the new galley tenants have already been offering a take out service as the arrangement couldn't have occurred at the worse time for them.

Getting the rescue boat down the beach is going to need thinking about as its normally a 6 man affair.

Personally I'd rather be talking about a better upbeat future than dwelling on all the negatives as we were in the other Covid thread.
I think a constructive thread about what practical things can be done to make any return safe is a great idea.  We do time trials once a year (in Toppers).  It’s great fun.  


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by Paramedic

 

Re the >70's I think it goes without saying that the younger members are going to have to step up to plate if they want things to happen. This is mainly around grounds and building maintenance.
I wonder how many of those desperate to sail are also desperate to help strim the boat park, fix the pontoon, get buildings insurance quotes, get the RIB outboard serviced etc?

 
Well, of four of the protagonists, I know iGRF has been Commodore, H2 is currently a flag officer, Rupert certainly fits in that category and (sorry about mentioning this) I received an RYA Lifetime Commitment award in February.

In other words, oh to be allowed to


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by tink

This thread is nothing to do with PLANNING it is all about people trying to justify their decisions by a getting a few people to agree with them so they don’t feel guilty doing something that they know is morally wrong. We are just past the peak, it has been hard but if we mess up the next bit we are going to pay for many many years. 



Just because someone has a different opinion from you does not make them wrong boomer


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H2 #115


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by fab100


Originally posted by Cirrus

Is this some sort of parallel universe I'm dreaming about ?  No ? Blimey some here really have got cabin fever bad .. or perhaps simply don't 'Get It'   ..... yet.

Mike, the title of the thread is "Plan for return to the water" not "jail breakout" or are you proposing that we accept living like this forever? 


Thank you fab100 and read the first post tink

It was a thread aimed at exactly that, what plans could/can we put in place so we can get back on the water racing whilst doing our best to mitigate personal risk and risk to others.

Time trialling around the cans came to mind.

PPE for rescue crew, gloves, masks. Same I guess for Galley crew although at our place the new galley tenants have already been offering a take out service as the arrangement couldn't have occurred at the worse time for them.

Getting the rescue boat down the beach is going to need thinking about as its normally a 6 man affair.

Personally I'd rather be talking about a better upbeat future than dwelling on all the negatives as we were in the other Covid thread.

You do make be laugh iGRF

A very small handful of the posts are actually about planning the majority people is whining because to help others we can’t sail. 


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Tink
https://tinkboats.com

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Personally I'd rather be talking about a better upbeat future than dwelling on all the negatives as we were in the other Covid thread.

Me too.......


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by Paramedic

 

Re the >70's I think it goes without saying that the younger members are going to have to step up to plate if they want things to happen. This is mainly around grounds and building maintenance.
I wonder how many of those desperate to sail are also desperate to help strim the boat park, fix the pontoon, get buildings insurance quotes, get the RIB outboard serviced etc?

 
Well, of four of the protagonists, I know iGRF has been Commodore, H2 is currently a flag officer, Rupert certainly fits in that category and (sorry about mentioning this) I received an RYA Lifetime Commitment award in February.

In other words, oh to be allowed to
Hey, congratulations! I bought your book recently and thoroughly enjoyed it. Very good, practical advice.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:52pm
Actually, I've hardly done any less sailing than I might have done by now anyway. Like Nessa and I'm sure others on here what I've not been able to do is facilitate other people's sailing. Which is just as frustrating.

And I'm designated lockdown lawn mower.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 2:57pm
One thing my company has done is put a gate on toilet, you close it behind you, people know someone is inside, leaving it open when you come out. Doesn't replace doors, this is a toilet with cubicles, urinals and sinks, company decided to limit to one person at a time.

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Robert


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by tink

A very small handful of the posts are actually about planning the majority people is whining because to help others we can’t sail. 

Driven entirely by people like you. You have hijacked this one, along with one or two others. If yoy don't want to plan how to return to sailing thats fine - but don't tell everyone else that they cant do it.


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 May 20 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by 423zero

One thing my company has done is put a gate on toilet, you close it behind you, people know someone is inside, leaving it open when you come out. Doesn't replace doors, this is a toilet with cubicles, urinals and sinks, company decided to limit to one person at a time.

One way changing rooms have been suggested at a club I used to belong to, in through the club and out through the fire exit. Its actually a real problem that you often end up walking face on into people as - for obvious reasons - there are two blind corners. In a way it's easier than having doors as there are no handles to clean.



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