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Major exhibitors pull out of show - Coronavirus

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13530
Printed Date: 29 Nov 20 at 11:28am
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Topic: Major exhibitors pull out of show - Coronavirus
Posted By: A2Z
Subject: Major exhibitors pull out of show - Coronavirus
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 3:04pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51438845" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51438845

Not the dinghy show, but a European tech show in Barcelona. Might the dinghy show be affected?




Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 4:17pm
Practicing for a job with the tabloids?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 5:10pm
.....


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 8:01pm
Large gatherings of people needing quarantine far from home. The dinghy show is mainly UK based, but the S/V14 will be there from Far East yachts, who are from China, not Norfolk!

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 8:16pm
People die from normal Flu, why is there so much hysteria around Corona virus ?

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Robert


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 9:52pm
Not sure, but I guess it's because it's a new strain which is spreading rapidly? Maybe better to try and limit the spread?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 10:07pm
#2 son and his wife live and work in China, they came home for Chinese New Year just before the thing kicked off. It's complex but their holiday has already extended and looks likely to go on a little longer. It seems that what the Chinese government are reporting/allowing to be reported and what is actually happening only bears a superficial relationship to what is actually happening. But, the numbers alone suggest that, while it's not quite as deadly as Influenza it is worse than SARS.

Definitely something that could get out of hand if not contained.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 10:09pm
A few Wiki facts.  Usual flu mortality rate is around 0.1%; Corona Virus is apparently around 1%.  500+ million were caught in the Spanish flu pandemic in 1918 and 25 million died - 5% mortality.
The over 65s are especially at risk so just as well that does not apply to too many of us on here…. 
LOL


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 11:09pm
I have been to that tech show in Barcelona before with work - not at all surprised that people are cancelling as it is a huge global event with 100,000 people from all countries and if ever you had a perfect place to spread this disease that would be it. The RYA dinghy show is not comparable!

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H2 #115


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 10:19am
Originally posted by 423zero

People die from normal Flu, why is there so much hysteria around Corona virus ?


....because the media these days deliberately focus on and sensationalise stories that have a fear angle. The greater the pressure on circulation figures the more they do it.  Mad foxes, storms, commies, straight bananas, the forces of anarchy, long haired weirdos, short haired weirdos and now viruses..........It sells papers.



 


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 10:39am
True, but it's not the media quarantining millions of people.
Corona mortality rate is running at about 2%, so twenty times more deadly than typical flu. It makes sense to nip it in the bud if at all possible.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 11:18am
That depends on how you measure it, based on cases with an outcome, i.e. recovered or died it's 20% fatality, but deaths are around 0.4% of confirmed cases (43,000 cases, 1014 deaths).

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/" rel="nofollow - http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/



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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 11:19am

"True, but it's not the media quarantining millions of people.
Corona mortality rate is running at about 2%, so twenty times more deadly than typical flu. It makes sense to nip it in the bud if at all possible."


 .......From what I've seen nobody is entirely sure what the mortality rate is for coronavirus. The last publication I read said 1%  other sources reckon about 2.1%.

Figures for flu are equally vague in reality. I've had flu a couple of times in my life, it was uncomfortable but I did not present myself to the medical services, neither has my wife who has had it a similar number of times.  We don't appear on any statistics along with millions of other uncomfortable but not desperate flu sufferers. Those who start to show life threatening symptoms do tend to present themselves and some sadly die..........Stats can only be accurate for "reported" cases.

Some of those that die may well have died if they had caught any sort of respiratory infection.

......The government are quarantining infected folk. I'm not saying this is the case with coronavirus but politicians (even the Chinese) do respond to public fears, some fears are real some are the product of hype published in the media.






Posted By: seasailor
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 12:06pm
A quick Google suggests "nearly 8,500" people attended the dinghy show over two days last year.

Approx 60,000 regularly go to home matches at Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, etc etc. week in week out


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 6:11pm
You're more likely to catch woodworm at the Dinghy Show.


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Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 6:30pm
LOL


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 11 Feb 20 at 7:54pm
......


Posted By: rich4rd
Date Posted: 12 Feb 20 at 2:17pm
1014 is 0.4% of 43 000?


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 12 Feb 20 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by rich4rd

1014 is 0.4% of 43 000?

No you're right it's roughly 2.5%. Fatalities still around 20% of those with outcome though.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 1:59am
Do you really think that only 43,000 people have been infected? Based on the out break starting in China and the fact that for many the symptoms would appear like a standard cold the likely rate of deaths per 1,000 infected is very, very low. Seasonal flu is more deadly as is crossing the road in Manila as I nearly found out this morning ;-)

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H2 #115


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 6:56am
It is that kind of blasé attitude that makes stopping the spread so difficult.  As a fit and healthy man you would probably survive it, but what about your asthmatic son, baby niece, frail dad or chemo wife?

Over 200 people died from it yesterday, and will today.  Nobody had ever died from it a month ago.  


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 8:06am
Originally posted by A2Z

It is that kind of blasé attitude that makes stopping the spread so difficult.  As a fit and healthy man you would probably survive it, but what about your asthmatic son, baby niece, frail dad or chemo wife?

Over 200 people died from it yesterday, and will today.  Nobody had ever died from it a month ago.  



The time frame makes no difference to the facts. People have always died of cancer, does that make it less of a concern?

Your appeal to emotion  indirectly  accuses folk of not caring about their nearest and dearest......careful where you go with that.

.........That aside glad I don't worry the same as you. There  are so many things out there that could kill me, if I worried about all of them I would be too scared to do anything. I'd probably become a hermit.

Despite what the media tell us the mortality rate is not known but it is probably far less than reports suggest. China's rural infrastructure and the populations tendency to use self prescribed alternative remedies means that reported cases are likely the tip of the iceberg. The ones that come to the authorities notice more consistently are the severe cases.


Edit:
In all probability this virus is unstoppable, it's out in the general population now, it's done what viruses do.

The current fuss with quarantine may slow down the general spread but it won't stop it. However, the current "fuss" does give the medical services a chance to study and research the virus. How best to treat it and maybe develop a vaccine. Whatever the mortality rate is now it will likely decrease.


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 12:55pm
......


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 8:19pm
I thought I'd pop around to Boots and get my flu jab.

Not possible, I'm 56 and there are no doses available for under 65s they have all be used up. national shortage according Boots. Over 65s have a different dose.

I was told that the flu season had now finished.


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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 13 Feb 20 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by A2Z

It is that kind of blasé attitude that makes stopping the spread so difficult.  As a fit and healthy man you would probably survive it, but what about your asthmatic son, baby niece, frail dad or chemo wife?

Over 200 people died from it yesterday, and will today.  Nobody had ever died from it a month ago.  

Its just the media hyping it all up to sell more papers. Get out there and enjoy life, worry a whole lot less. I have had the privilege of working in 72 countries and living in 16 over the last 46 years of my life and have learned many great lessons from the cultures I have been exposed too. One of the best things I learned was to worry less about the things I cannot control and that will probably never happen.


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H2 #115


Posted By: A2Z
Date Posted: 18 Sep 20 at 7:33pm
^ interesting reading this from 7 long months ago.  Hearing rumours that the registered exhibitors  voted (as an expression of interest rather than blindingly) to cancel the 2021 show.  Great shame, am looking forward to it moving to Farnborough, but so difficult to know whether it will be allowed and even if it is if anyone would go.  


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Sep 20 at 7:51pm
Wonder whether big shows will ever restart? Maybe small scale local events might be safer and more to scale for our industry?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Sep 20 at 8:09pm
Probably nigh on impossible to generate support for anything significant that requires the public to attend, would require optimism of biblical proportions, going to be a boring couple of years.

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Robert


Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 19 Sep 20 at 6:46am
Chatting to Ian Morgan (sail maker) yesterday and he says the RYA are looking at taking a much smaller returnable deposit for next years dinghy exhibition which is returnable until the new year if the show gets cancelled. In Jan they will then want the rest of the deposit (40%) as the RYA will have to start spending money to make it happen.
Sensible approach in difficult times.



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Gordon
Phantom 1430


Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 19 Sep 20 at 7:36am
Its impossible to effectively plan anything for next year at the moment. The RYA approach seems sensible.


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 8:10am
Exhibitors are being asked to vote on what they want to do in relation to the Dinghy show - as a member of the class association we have been contacted by the RYA and asked to vote. In an on-line pole of the larger exhibitors the option that secured the most votes was to cancel the show for 2021, other options were to put down a small deposit and hope it can be held or put it back to June and hold it then. Lots of pros and cons of all options!

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H2 #115


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 8:37am
Perhaps a group of shows, set at various locations round the country, each of the major classes that exhibit at main show could do something, smaller classes could group together, make it a sailing event, large marquees, invite retailers, have it over several weekends.

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Robert


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 11:23am
If I recall the choices were as follows; hold the event as planned and risk losing deposit, cancel event for 2021 or push it back to June 2021 as it can then be held outside if needed. I think most people did not want to push to June as people will be off sailing and it is then too close to the next event in early 2022. Most seemed resigned to just canning the event as the risk of cancellation is high considering the time of year and the chance of continued lock downs

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H2 #115


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 1:25pm
Hysteria.. Hold it but insist everyone is masked - simples.

Following the case of the restaurant where 32 diners with no masks were infected, but working staff (masked) not.

Kind of too obviously simple for this Clusterf**k of a civil service.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 1:50pm
........


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by zeon

Grf. So nice to see you haven’t lost the ability to post simplistic tosh Wink

Nor does it comfort me to know we're being shepherded by bedwetters with a similar mindset to your own.

Do some research. Check the German Tradeshow Industry.

I was in Germany last week, you cannot move without wearing a mask. You may sit to eat, but get up to go to the washroom and you'll be stopped if your not wearing one, makes you wonder how they're handling the situation so much better than us.

Before you start with the (they offer no protection) google Cambridge Mask. Read a bit further than the Grauniad.. https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5" rel="nofollow - https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 2:09pm
.......


Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 2:18pm
'World beating' and  'World Class' approach.  Now when exactly did I hear that phrase over here ?   Or was it something more to do with 'organisational skills' and breweries ..... ?


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 2:23pm
Tends to put you off, when in the first couple of paragraphs a expert says 'HUMUNGOUS' then keeps repeating himself, telling people touching infected surfaces isn't so bad, but perhaps best to wash your hands anyway.

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Robert


Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 3:00pm

Does no harm to apply the 'precautionary principle' in novel potentially dangerous situations such as we face today.  Far from perfect knowledge exists yet but a lot of learning is inevitably happening every day and every month.  Wearing face masks AND taking real care with possible surface transmission, plus socially distancing are not mutually exclusive approaches nor are these the only precautions worth following - by a very long way.  

Want to argue otherwise ?  Fancy yourself as an expert ?  Yup - some approaches may not provide much benefit but unless they are likely to make matters worse,  until there is near perfect knowledge,  you are simply gambling with the safety of others or even yourself.   Or do you just feel lucky ?



Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 3:09pm
..........


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 7:06pm
Surely it's better to ensure the disease isn't capable of being transmitted, then there would be no need for track and trace.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Sep 20 at 8:21pm
Unfortunately people will be wilful, there are millions of people who totally refuse to wear masks or follow guidelines, 'The Beast' from the chase has told people to ignore a second lockdown, not the only public figure to do so.

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Robert


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 7:40am
Originally posted by 423zero

Unfortunately people will be wilful, there are millions of people who totally refuse to wear masks or follow guidelines, 'The Beast' from the chase has told people to ignore a second lockdown, not the only public figure to do so.

I wonder how long it will be before people start referencing Sweden who took a different approach with a resulting different outcome in arguments about the 2nd lockdown - maybe they already are, I am not too active in the forums that these people hang out Confused


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H2 #115


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 8:34am
Would have probably been different here if we hadn't had a 'Bloke' in charge, PMQ's are a rare treat, Sir Keir Starmer asks a long involved sensible question, the bloke jumps up and shouts 'IRA sympathiser', Rishi Sunak, who looks brilliant against the rest of the cabinet, not much better, asked a question about Furlough, replies, I intend to remove the triple lock from pensions, freeze public sector pay and benefits , give low income families £500,doesn't say if it's a one off, weekly, or monthly, suffice to say, people are confused.

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Robert


Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 22 Sep 20 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Does no harm to apply the 'precautionary principle' in novel potentially dangerous situations such as we face today.  Far from perfect knowledge exists yet but a lot of learning is inevitably happening every day and every month.  Wearing face masks AND taking real care with possible surface transmission, plus socially distancing are not mutually exclusive approaches nor are these the only precautions worth following - by a very long way.  

Want to argue otherwise ?  Fancy yourself as an expert ?  Yup - some approaches may not provide much benefit but unless they are likely to make matters worse,  until there is near perfect knowledge,  you are simply gambling with the safety of others or even yourself.   Or do you just feel lucky ?



The reactions to corona virus plus the social, economic, political, psychological effects were always going to be the bigger danger. Given that the whole shooting match in this country has been entrusted to someone with the abilities of a demented orangutan I would say when it's all over the cure is probably going to be much worse than the disease.

If it were as simple as imposing restrictions and hoping the virus would disappear then fair enough but the restrictions need to prompt the question: "have much damage are they causing"?


Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 29 Sep 20 at 5:20pm
Well, that's sorted then...... 'Virtual' only for 2021.

https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/RYA-Dinghy-Show-goes-virtual-for-2021.aspx



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Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Intl 420 ('Little Minx'),Contender 'Mild Oats' (620), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)



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