Print Page | Close Window

Marks

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13450
Printed Date: 11 Dec 19 at 10:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Marks
Posted By: tink
Subject: Marks
Date Posted: 29 Oct 19 at 7:25pm
From another thread

’There are often more places to be made at marks in a busy fleet than elsewhere on the course. Slowing down and giving up a few places in the short-term to help you get an inside berth at a gybe mark often reaps good rewards’ (Steve Middleton)

I most certainly come into this category. It probably been asked before but we seem a lively bunch at the moment - what is in peoples mark rounding playbook?






-------------
Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com



Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Oct 19 at 10:03pm
Never round outside a Wayfarer!

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 29 Oct 19 at 10:09pm
Don't round outside a FD that's doing a triangle if you're in a Cherub doing the sausage.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 Oct 19 at 11:01pm
Never get involved in a Cherub's sausage Wink

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Steve Middleton
Date Posted: 29 Oct 19 at 11:19pm
"....what is in peoples mark rounding playbook?"

Rounding the leeward mark...on any course...helps if you have a large assertive voice (!)…

If you're coming into that with a load of boats fighting it out...ease the sails...drop the kite early..do whatever you can to slow down and get that inside berth. Round the mark inside all the other boats that were ahead but on the outside...stuff it a bit to make sure the boats behind are not coming out higher. Maybe even slow a touch to make sure they have to dive below your stern. Go for max pointing for a moment or two. Quids in. I get ridiculously excited just thinking about it!


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 30 Oct 19 at 9:01am
Never under estimate a Flying Fifteen's ability to head directly into the wind and ghost over the windward mark that it was not laying. Also never imagine that a FF sailor has any desire or belief in the general rules of sailing as they do not apply to them as a class.

-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 30 Oct 19 at 10:17am
Originally posted by JimC

Don't round outside a FD that's doing a triangle if you're in a Cherub doing the sausage.

That would apply at the top mark, not the bottom, surely?


-------------
Nick
https://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/index.asp?selection=boat-register&subsel=14821" rel="nofollow - GBR 14821 Sijambo



Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Oct 19 at 7:38pm
Give way with a smile, do your racing between the marks.

-------------
Robert


Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 30 Oct 19 at 8:26pm
Another option is the “ buffalo boys” manoeuvre. If you have a raft up of the boats ahead in light winds ( if you don’t know the song “buffalo boys go round the outside “. It takes some guts but it can be a good option 😊


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Oct 19 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Give way with a smile, do your racing between the marks.


Nah, do your racing everywhere. Just be confident in your ability to manoeuvre a boat through spaces which ought to be impossible! And do your turns when it goes wrong.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 Oct 19 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by 423zero

Give way with a smile, do your racing between the marks.


Nah, do your racing everywhere. Just be confident in your ability to manoeuvre a boat through spaces which ought to be impossible! And do your turns when it goes wrong.

This ^ Clap


-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 Oct 19 at 12:07pm
Perhaps too much of the sixties child in me

-------------
Robert


Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 31 Oct 19 at 3:58pm
I am with Rupert on this point Big smile


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 31 Oct 19 at 6:54pm
Rupert's right.  But it is also a case of percentages, and taking account of you own capabilities.  In my case trying to gybe on the pin inside a load of others in high winds would risk a lot more than a possible 720. 


Posted By: bustinben
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 10:39am
Always enforce 18.3. Take it to the room, win easily!  After a few successful protests people tend to stop doing it Wink

If a boat in the zone of a mark to be left to port passes head to wind from port to starboard tack and is then fetching the mark, she shall not cause a boat that has been on starboard tack since entering the zone to sail above close-hauled to avoid contact and she shall give mark-room if that boat becomes overlapped inside her. When this rule applies between boats, rule 18.2 does not apply between them. 


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 11:12am
OR,just avoid the stress and time your approach to avoid having to carry your rule book

-------------
Robert


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 11:32am
Originally posted by bustinben

Always enforce 18.3. Take it to the room, win easily!  After a few successful protests people tend to stop doing it Wink

If a boat in the zone of a mark to be left to port passes head to wind from port to starboard tack and is then fetching the mark, she shall not cause a boat that has been on starboard tack since entering the zone to sail above close-hauled to avoid contact and she shall give mark-room if that boat becomes overlapped inside her. When this rule applies between boats, rule 18.2 does not apply between them. 

Which sounds lovely but when you are in a carbon H2 up against a 20 year old FF and you know you can win protest and then send your boat off to be repaired!


-------------
H2 #115


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 12:23pm
Just take clear and obvious avoiding action and protest. No need to bash carbon.


Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 2:05pm
In wide, out tight.


Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Mike Holt

In wide, out tight.

Easy to do in the rarified atmosphere at the front of the fleet, less easy down with the luffers and stuffers ... particularly since I don't believe "wide in" is now considered to be proper mark room ... though I will bow to JimC or Brass should they correct me!


-------------
Happily living in the past


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 7:27pm
Get good at getting onto the wind quickly (or actually pinching like hell if needs be) to stop boats just behind you from getting their noses in as you start the upwind leg. Force them to go to leeward into your crappy wind.
Conversely, if you are the boat which is being stuffed, tack.

-------------
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 8:35pm
After the sausage silliness starting to get practical 

Leeward mark specifically, I loose loads there. 
Generally a couple of boats ahead off and have a luffing match, I sail the best VMG to the mark, some guy will be off to the left. We all meet at the mark and, I don’t want to hit anyone and can’t figure tactics and equate the situation to the rules and end up rounding last 


-------------
Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com


Posted By: Mike Holt
Date Posted: 01 Nov 19 at 9:26pm
All things being even, keep yourself to the "left" approaching a leeward mark, be on the inside and/or coming in on starboard. Control boat speed and be in charge at the mark.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 05 Nov 19 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by H2

Never under estimate a Flying Fifteen's ability to head directly into the wind and ghost over the windward mark that it was not laying. Also never imagine that a FF sailor has any desire or belief in the general rules of sailing as they do not apply to them as a class.

Just shout 'Mast Abeam' I am told FF sailors love that, might make them spit their pipes out though.

On topic, I will often 'give up' on a fight down to the leeward mark, slowing and grabbing the inside line can pay handsomely (just be prepared for it not to).


-------------
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 05 Nov 19 at 8:39pm
On Sunday we had a good example of leeward mark tactics:-
Bunch of singlehanded running to the mark (starboard rounding) in light airs.
A 200 decided to keep the kit up and round well outside, I slowed down (being outside the group).
As the group rounded, they all drifted downwind of the mark leaving me a nice gap. Quick reach into the gap,harden up and I'm level with them and to windward.
Moral:- don't get caught in a raft around the leeward mark..

Colin


Posted By: Steve Middleton
Date Posted: 05 Nov 19 at 11:04pm
A good one at the windward mark in a decent fleet (Port Rounding). The safe thing to do is get out to the stbd tack lay line early and join the queue stacking out way above the lay line. It's huge risk in a big fleet if you aren't in the first 10 or so boats. But taking a stbd tack a few boat lengths under the lay line, tack onto port 50 yds or so short of the mark, you can often just tack into the gap left by those that have overstood. This has gone horribly wrong a few times (having to bear away behind 20-30 stbd tackers). But for me, it's paid off more times than not. In todays reduced fleets, defo worth the risk.



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com