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Singlehander Trials

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Olympic Sailing
Forum Discription: The top end racing in our sport
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13282
Printed Date: 07 Apr 20 at 6:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Singlehander Trials
Posted By: jeffers
Subject: Singlehander Trials
Date Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 12:58pm
So the Olympic Singlehander Trials are taking place in Valencia.

What do people think of the candidate boats?

Which boat do they think will get in?

Contenders are:

Laser/Laser Radial
D-Zero/D-Zero Blue
Aero9/Aero7
Melges 14 (with 2 different rig sizes)


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74



Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 1:26pm
Still my beating heart...

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 4:15pm
Unfortunately I think Laser is the only contender.......

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 5:59pm
If only the Contender was a contender.

The way that WS work, we will probably get a foiling Oppie as the boat of choice.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 11 Mar 19 at 6:03pm
Going to be the Laser variants, experimenting with the new 'C' sails, makes them look current and dynamic.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 10:06am
Originally posted by 423zero

Going to be the Laser variants, experimenting with the new 'C' sails, makes them look current and dynamic.

They are not in the trial though. they are there but the Laser is there is the current form. The class has not even decided which new rigs it will consider adopting.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 12 Mar 19 at 12:52pm
Bit more here (if people fancy a read):  https://optimist-openbic-sailing.blogspot.com/2019/03/choosing-single-handed-dinghy-for-2024.html" rel="nofollow - https://optimist-openbic-sailing.blogspot.com/2019/03/choosing-single-handed-dinghy-for-2024.html

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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 16 Mar 19 at 11:51am
RS getting in sharpish to cry foul ?


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 16 Mar 19 at 12:10pm
Hmm I still think it would not be good for the sport as a whole if the Laser were dropped. I think a fair compromise would be to open the rig up to other makers, make it completely open but with tight measurements, I'm sure that would bring prices down and it would keep the boat truly international. Heavier sailors could be catered for with a larger measurement than present, even based on the '0ne square metre = 10 kilos rule of thumb' a 9 mtr sail could bring the optimum sailor weight up to 90 kgs which face it is about as heavy as any serious athelete would want to be. ;-)

More local sailmakers could vie for the 'prize' and the boat would continue to be produced in numbers big enough to keep the econpmic trickle down for new club members in the future.

Just saying.


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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 16 Mar 19 at 7:52pm
From what I can gather WS think that the Laser as it currently is does not cover the appropriate weight ranges for men and women, meaning that it disadvantages some countries/ethnic groups 

From latest descriptions on SA it seems that the Devoti is favoured because it is more tuneable than the others as it has adjustable mast rake

They intend that the Laser stays on as the feeder for what ever boat is chosen, the skills being fully transferable as non of the new boats are radically different from the Laser.

So, given the mission to widen sailing's appeal this sounds perfectly reasonable. 


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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Alpha 220PR


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 Mar 19 at 8:43pm
That article seems to suggest that small variations between boats and the weight they will carry, rather than lobbying, will decide which boat will be chosen. TBH, given that whatever boat is chosen, weights will converge and so sailor weight gained or lost, lobbying is a good a way, if not better, to choose the boat.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 11:29am
Hopefully the convergence of weights will allow nations with  smaller weight and height profiles to compete effectively.

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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Alpha 220PR


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 4:10pm
Are the ideal weights for Men and women in the radial the same?

I have a feeling the whole subject is much more complex than being made out by the article. I'd take bets that if the Aero 5 was put up for selection and won, we would have complaints about how women were having to diet to compete, and how unhealthy it is.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 7:07pm
Womens centre of gravity is lower in general terms than mens. This would imply that to attain the same righting moment women would have to be heavier.

However for female athletes trining for Laser may build up more muscle mass than average and so the centre of gravity issue may not be relevant.

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Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Alpha 220PR


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 9:17pm
If memory serves me right, I think the Men's weight is heavier. I was hoping for actual figures. It seems the perfect weight isn't an absolute but rotates around the weight where you aren't too penalised in the light or heavy - in other words, near the average.

But yes, given we can't have 6 weight categories, I suppose being near the average weight of the world population of female athletes would make sense. Anyone know what that weight actually is?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 9:30pm
Got all the makings of genetic engineering?
Remember 'Straight Bananas' ?


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 17 Mar 19 at 9:57pm
Haven't the Russians and GDR being doing that to their gymnasts forever?

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 7:07am
What??? Straightening them


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 10:14am
Originally posted by Riv

From what I can gather WS think that the Laser as it currently is does not cover the appropriate weight ranges for men and women, meaning that it disadvantages some countries/ethnic groups 
From latest descriptions on SA it seems that the Devoti is favoured because it is more tuneable than the others as it has adjustable mast rake
They intend that the Laser stays on as the feeder for what ever boat is chosen, the skills being fully transferable as non of the new boats are radically different from the Laser.
So, given the mission to widen sailing's appeal this sounds perfectly reasonable. 


That would be a disaster, the D0 isn't a Finn and like the Aero from the whispers I've heard the manufacturing has been 'varied' to say the least. Could it be ramped up to produce the numbers? Then if it did, how's the quality likely to be? Then there's the handling on the sea which those of us that like the boat were at the very least 'guarded' about in our comments, (except maybe me on the odd fb thread) it's not the nice boat on open water that it is inland or estuary conditions, it would have been another 'fun' ride at Beijing or the outer courses on those windy days in Rio.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 11:46am
Originally posted by iGRF

 
Then there's the handling on the sea which those of us that like the boat were at the very least 'guarded' about in our comments, (except maybe me on the odd fb thread) it's not the nice boat on open water that it is inland or estuary conditions, it would have been another 'fun' ride at Beijing or the outer courses on those windy days in Rio.

I would beg to differ there Grumpf. The 2016 D-Zero Nationals at Highcliffe were a windy and wavey event. Even a pond muppet like me manged to get the boat around the course without too much trouble so those at the top of their game should have little issue.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 12:10pm
Highcliffe? What's that? Highcliffe reservoir?

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 12:15pm
Just fit an aqualung to your buoyancy aid Grumpf for any rough weather D0 sailing. Even on a lake with no waves it seems to go through the water rather than over the waves which looks fun if a little difficult to breath!!

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H2 #115


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 18 Mar 19 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Highcliffe? What's that? Highcliffe reservoir?

Really? There are waves so tall you would have to stand on your own shoulders to see over them Wink... actually that isnt that high for you is it LOL


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 03 May 19 at 1:40pm
Report by World Sailing -  http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/EQCSP4biiiMenWomenOnePersonDinghy-%5b24944%5d.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0kdvGpi7MM4v9-R672-SIQXuXb7wBgdKDR5f_wmdgw1Gz3GpSHyx8Zh0U" rel="nofollow - http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/EQCSP4biiiMenWomenOnePersonDinghy-[24944].pdf?fbclid=IwAR0kdvGpi7MM4v9-R672-SIQXuXb7wBgdKDR5f_wmdgw1Gz3GpSHyx8Zh0U

Interesting scores in the matrix. Suggest that for the actual sailing (Athletic Suitability and Performance) the Laser is still the best boat but they fall down on quality of build and standardization. 

Maybe this is why it is all kicking off in Laser land..!!


Posted By: Peter Barton
Date Posted: 03 May 19 at 2:10pm
WORLD SALING - EVALUATION PANEL REPORT
Selection of Equipment for 2024 Men’s and Women’s One Person Olympic Dinghy Event
' The evaluation concluded that there are two suitable items of equipment for the event: The RS Aero equipment presented by RS Sailing and the Laser equipment presented by ILCA.
The Evaluation Panel developed a scoring matrix against which the equipment options were scored based on the evaluation criteria for the event.
The overall scores are:
RS AERO - 80%
LASER - 69%
MELGES 14 - 54%
DZERO - 52% '

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/EQCSP4biiiMenWomenOnePersonDinghy-%5b24944%5d.pdf" rel="nofollow - FULL REPORT
http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/EQCSP4biiiMenWomenOnePersonDinghy-%5b24944%5d.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/EQCSP4biiiMenWomenOnePersonDinghy-[24944].pdf





Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 May 19 at 8:57pm
Probably will all be ignored and the Finn will be chosen with a small women's rig...

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 May 19 at 9:52pm
Can see why ILCA are kicking off, they're definitely in the frame to lose it if that report is anything to go by, explains a lot.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 04 May 19 at 6:40am
Love the sentence about the d-zero

‘With a mainsheet traveler and multiple options to adjust the mast rake the boat was considered the option where in addition to athletic superiority, success would be more related to the technical knowledge of the equipment.’

Mast rake and traveler systems too technical for Olympians - speaks volumes as to why the Finn was kicked out



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Tink
https://tinkboats.wordpress.com/

http://proasail.blogspot.com



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