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Solo Opinions?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13262
Printed Date: 29 Mar 24 at 9:51am
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Topic: Solo Opinions?
Posted By: EmmyC
Subject: Solo Opinions?
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 1:46pm
A very reasonably-priced Solo has just popped up a mile away from me - I’ve been looking for a class to get me back on the water after 4 years away and this seems appropriate - any Solo-specific tips or guidance, or general opinions?

TIA



Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 3:00pm
I am sure you will get a lot of opinions here, probably quite a few detractors.

However the Solo is a large class and has probably the greatest club presence second only to the Laser in the UK. 

There are loads of setup guides around for the boat and most of the Solo sailors I have met have been friendly and happy to help people. Do bear in mind though that if the boat is not one of the modern breed of FRP/Sandwich boats then it will never be fully competitive.

that said if you are just after a reasonable priced boat to get you back out there it could be the boat for you. Most sellers will be happy to sallow a trial sail should you wish.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 3:59pm
Agree with what Jeffers says, I'm not a Solo sailor myself but several of my friends are and they all say the same in that there is a discernible gap between the modern FRP/Sandwich boats and the rest of the fleet. Even older FRP boats can be quite expensive as a result. My friends have also told me that there are lots of different rig options and selecting the right rig for your weight is important. But I guess it all depends on how competitive you want to be. However I'm sure there will be people along with more knowledge of the Solo than me.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 4:37pm
There will be spiders.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 7:09pm
Wasps are worse


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 8:26pm
If very reasonably priced means an old wood boat, check the floor and side decks for rot. If an old GRP boat, check the weight and the rigidity of the transom. If a more modern reasonably priced boat, and it looks good, go for it. Nice boats, stood the test of time.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: EmmyC
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by jeffers

I am sure you will get a lot of opinions here, probably quite a few detractors.

However the Solo is a large class and has probably the greatest club presence second only to the Laser in the UK. 

There are loads of setup guides around for the boat and most of the Solo sailors I have met have been friendly and happy to help people. Do bear in mind though that if the boat is not one of the modern breed of FRP/Sandwich boats then it will never be fully competitive.

that said if you are just after a reasonable priced boat to get you back out there it could be the boat for you. Most sellers will be happy to sallow a trial sail should you wish.


I'm only looking for something to thrash about the cans at my local club, will be a while before I head to the national circuit haha. A buzzing class is definitely a bonus.

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/edit_post_form.asp?PID=1414411&PN=1" rel="nofollow -
Edit Post
Originally posted by Late starter

Agree with what Jeffers says, I'm not a Solo sailor myself but several of my friends are and they all say the same in that there is a discernible gap between the modern FRP/Sandwich boats and the rest of the fleet. Even older FRP boats can be quite expensive as a result. My friends have also told me that there are lots of different rig options and selecting the right rig for your weight is important. But I guess it all depends on how competitive you want to be. However I'm sure there will be people along with more knowledge of the Solo than me.


The boat I'm looking at is the GRP/wooden composite, a modern sandwich would be ideal but I don't have £6000 burning a hole in my pocket, I wish haha. It's definitely something I'll look into as I don't know a whole lot about the class, I was hoping they'd have a class association stand at Ally Pally but it doesn't look like they do, alas.

Originally posted by Rupert

If very reasonably priced means an old wood boat, check the floor and side decks for rot. If an old GRP boat, check the weight and the rigidity of the transom. If a more modern reasonably priced boat, and it looks good, go for it. Nice boats, stood the test of time.


I was attracted to it as it's composite rather than wooden, I'll certainly view it, but for the price I'm not expecting the most stunning boat, but hopefully sound enough


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Feb 19 at 9:50pm
Better a Streaker, no spiders in them.

-------------
https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Rusty69
Date Posted: 21 Feb 19 at 10:24am
There's a couple on ebay i have my eye on. Just figuring out if it will fit on the car roof. 


Posted By: PaulPoshW
Date Posted: 21 Feb 19 at 11:56am
National Solo Association have a stand at the Dinghy show, Main Hall go in turn Left.

Could be worth popping along and having a chat to someone on the stand.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Feb 19 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by EmmyC

I was attracted to it as it's composite rather than wooden

That's arguably the worst of both worlds. Pre foam sandwich GRP is without any doubt the worst material to build a Solo from, that's why wood boats kept on being popular for so long, and wood decks mean you stil have to maintain, keep out of the frost etc.


Posted By: NickM99
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 7:22pm
JimC is quite right. If you would consider a GRP boat with a wooden deck, why not an all wood boat? There are three advertised currently on the Solo Association website and at least one of them has been epoxied from new. They are less than half the price of FRP boats and will be competitive for club sailing if the rig is right for you.


Posted By: Late starter
Date Posted: 22 Feb 19 at 8:44pm
I've not sailed a Solo for a long time so I'm not up to date with developments in the class, but I sailed a GRP/composite boat for a season probably 10 or so years back. I found this very slow, and a pal of mine who also had a similar boat at the same time was also very slow. We were sailing against some of our pals who had modern FRP ships, and the difference in speed was very marked. And these were guys who I'd sailed against for years in Lasers, Phantoms etc and we'd been broadly similar in ability. JimC and Nick are right, if I wanted an inexpensive Solo I'd buy a wooden boat from a decent builder with the right rig.


Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 25 Feb 19 at 9:08pm
Around the lake, you won't find a lot of difference between a recent wood boat and a from one.
Look for a well setup Boon/Gosling. O viously, it should be sound and as down to weight as possible (mine carries 3kg of lead).
Check the mast for your weight (Solo website), and that the sail matches the mast bend!

Also, the mast rake makes a significant difference.
You may want to look for continuous control lines as well

Colin


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Feb 19 at 11:15pm
On our reservoir I saw about a 5% improvement in performance when someone upgraded from a good modern wooden boat to foam sandwich. I was staggered, I never would have anticipated such a big differential.


Posted By: KazRob
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by JimC

On our reservoir I saw about a 5% improvement in performance when someone upgraded from a good modern wooden boat to foam sandwich. I was staggered, I never would have anticipated such a big differential.

That is a huge difference! At the extremes of that difference that's either the new boats being as fast as a Laser (1148 -> 1090 for -5%) or the old ones as slow as a Laser 4.7 (1148->1205 for +5%). Must be something like Godwin's law where all online sailing threads end up on PY eventually :-)


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OK 2249
D-1 138


Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 3:03pm
Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 



Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 5:07pm
I suspect someone buying a new or recent FRP boat will probably sail more frequently, concentrate harder and likely spend some time practicing so part (most?) of his improved performance will come from that.

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 


The first wave of FRP boats is around that age now. They came as composites as well as there is one at my local club. It still can't keep pace with the current generation though.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 6:18pm
Surely there cannot be a 5% difference in actual boat speed

Far more likely that a tiny percentage (1% ?) multiplies itself as you get left behind, in dirty air etc etc

5% boat speed would indeed be a different class of dinghy altogether


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26 Feb 19 at 6:47pm
Two 10 year old boats got good results at the Solo winters last weekend.


Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 9:28am
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Fatboi

Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 


The first wave of FRP boats is around that age now. They came as composites as well as there is one at my local club. It still can't keep pace with the current generation though.

Judging by the results at the Nationals last year it can...! If it was 5% slower on performance, no way you could come 11th in that fleet! 

Photo of the boat and sail combo here, green boat on the right.  https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-ZZCr94g/A
https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-zZRKWRV/A



Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 9:58am
If you get good starts and are a quality helm, then in a fleet of that size you could overcome 5% performance differential 

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 10:52am
Some clarifications and observations

The 5% came from the data used for our personal handicapping system. All results are converted to % of winners corrected time. So the number includes not only any difference in boat speed, but also consequences of slower boatspeed ie dirty air, more traffic at mark roundings etc.

The spread of finish times in a large fleet usually approaches 25% of winners time. It would be interesting to see times and work out how much 5% time results in place changes in different parts of the fleet.

Well built epoxy/foam sandwich boats seem to have a very long competitive lifespan.

Something I must do is to figure out which classes have had wholesale moves to foam sandwich without major design changes and compare PY numbers before and after the change. One naturally thinks of Merlins and Phantoms, but there will be others.


Posted By: Fatboi
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 10:55am
I disagree with that in a fleet of 100 boats! Even if you get off the front row, you will struggle to hold your lane and get bounced around. 
If everyone is doing 5kts around the course, you will be doing 4.75kts, which on a championship sized reach will result in getting rolled by at least couple of boats. 
You would have to be exceptional to get top 10 results in this fleet if you were 5% slower out the box... I dont think it is possible. 



Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 1:41pm
Agreed

You may survive with 1 or 2% less boatspeed but losing 5m every 100m …

- youd be lucky to finish on the same leg


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 27 Feb 19 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Fatboi

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Fatboi

Not quite true about the performance. The guy who was 11th at the nationals last year sailed a composite boat that is probably 10-12 years old. He had an old wavelength rig and edge sail. Not what you would consider top gear but with 3 results in the top 10 you cannot say it held back too much! 


The first wave of FRP boats is around that age now. They came as composites as well as there is one at my local club. It still can't keep pace with the current generation though.

Judging by the results at the Nationals last year it can...! If it was 5% slower on performance, no way you could come 11th in that fleet! 

Photo of the boat and sail combo here, green boat on the right.  https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-ZZCr94g/A
https://haylingisc.smugmug.com/Championships/2018/Solo-Nationals/i-zZRKWRV/A


I would guess it would work on where that 5% is (not that I ever quoted 5%, I just said the guy in the composite couldnt keep up with the newer FRP boats). Unlikely to be upwind where waterline speed would be king. On the offwind legs though that would be where I would expect to see the biggest difference especially on the small puddle I sail on.

We had a chap in a Thresher built wooden Solo. It had been well looked after and was the right shape (I seem to recall the Boon Solo was moulded from a Thresher hull). He was always up there in it and is not appreciably quicker in his new boat.




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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 6:37am
My Miles beats modern frp boats consistently and looks 500% better. When Taxi comes to Blithfield for a pre event tune up, strangely the positions are hugely changed!.

If you have somewhere to store a double floor wooden boat during the hard frosts, then saving £3k+ against a " white boat" is the sensible choice.


Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 7:17am
On Sunday it was pretty obvious that my wooden Boon was as fast upwind as the frp ones - in spite of towing weed on my rudder, we kept crossing tacks.
Offline, a newish Winder 1 stomped away from the rest of us - it was gusty any being inland catching the right gust is crucial...

The key to good performance - apart from host & sail condition - seems to be the helm's choice of position, both for heel and trim. Upwind, sit forward and allow a little heel to allow the hull shape to help the boat upwind...


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 4:08pm
Not the easiest of boats to sit as far forward as you need to be when it's light I found. That quite honestly waste of space traveller thing makes it awkward as does all the other gubbins and clutter. I was forced to choose by SWMBO, it was felt six boats in two clubs was over the top so Solution or Solo became bit of a no brainer really even though I did enjoy some moments of sailing it and of course like hitting your head on a brick wall it was great when it was over.

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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 04 Jun 19 at 4:17pm
There really is no need ever to be forward of the thwart, despite that you might think that it is fast, it really isn’t, I think it is because you put the bow apron in the water, without lifting out the transom, which is not very hydrodynamic.

More modern boats have shorter travellers, to clear a space to rest a cheek ... old boats can be modified to clear this space.  For most modern rigs you don’t need a full width traveller.


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Happily living in the past



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