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RS200 Main Halyard

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13217
Printed Date: 22 Mar 19 at 2:51pm
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Topic: RS200 Main Halyard
Posted By: Charliecat5
Subject: RS200 Main Halyard
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 1:38pm
I have just purchased a second hand RS200.  First sail last weekend which was great fun.  One question though... (well perhaps the first question).  The mainsail halyard pulls down onto a simple cleat - but this keeps slipping, particularly when you pull down on the kicker.  I tied the halyard off around the mast this weekend so we could sail, but it wasn't an ideal solution as it still slipped and let the sail down a bit.  Any tips how to resolve this issue?  



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 1:49pm
Worn cleat perhaps? Its a clam cleat isn't it? Look closely to see if the teeth are worn away in a groove. If so replace.


Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 1:54pm
 move the knot in the halyard if you have any spare, rope where it locks in the cleat may be worn.

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Gordon
Phantom 1430


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:00pm
Is it slipping in the cleat, or is the halyard stretching?

Hoist the sail and cleat, mark rope with some tape at the cleat, then pull on downhaul and kicker as hard as possible. It should then be obvious if the cleat is slipping or the halyard is stretching. 

If it's the cleat that's slipping, you can try moving the knot at the top, but really putting on a new cleat with sharp teeth is the answer. Then make sure when you hoist you don't hoist through the cleat and wear it down (lift the halyard out the cleat to the side during hoist).

If the cleats holding, then it's your halyard slipping. Get a high spec 5mm dynema which has been heat treated (rooster / marlow sell some of the stuff). It's the lowest stretch I've ever seen and holds in cleats very well (for dynema!). It's expensive, but get an excess of about 1 m and shuffle it along periodically and it will last a long time. 

Lastly, always stretch out the halyard after hoisting each sail by pulling on kicker and downhaul, releasing, and then snugging up the halyard again.


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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: Charliecat5
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:09pm
It's the cleat that is slipping. The easiest thing will probably be to replace the cleat... but I am not a fan of them in general so wondered if there were any other ways to retro fit something that would hold the line better?  Thanks.


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:19pm
Just swap out for a new cleat. With the right diameter halyard they will have no slippage. 

I never seen anyone use a different type of cleat there, and I'm sure it would be in class rules anyway. 



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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: Charliecat5
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:20pm
Thanks Mozzy.  I'll get one ordered.  


Posted By: Charliecat5
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:21pm
Whilst we're on the subject... does anyone have a link to a rigging diagram for the RS200?  It would be helpful to know that I am running the lines in the right directions.  


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 2:28pm
There's some pictures on the rs website, but they may be the new deck now.

Or ask here, or the class Facebook group.

Or try this video for simple stuff...

[TUBE]https://youtu.be/dbpxbTCK30Q[/TUBE]


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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 5:10pm
The Spinlock PRX CamCleat is very good, doesn't wear the halyard and doesn't slip. The RS200 class rules say this :-

"1.2 The following parts or equipment may be replaced providing that the replacement performs a similar function. The replacement parts or equipment may be obtained from any supplier: -

1.2.5  Main Halyard and halyard securing device, maximum velocity ratio 1:1" 

So it sounds like it would be legal.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 5:45pm
Yeah, that would be fine.

However, it's a big unit right where the jib sheet catches during tacks. I'd want the lowest possible profile there.

Plus it costs 6x as much.

The main benefit to the spinlock is it doesn't accidentally re cleat. Not really a design advantage on a main halyard.

I'd really just stick with a clam cleat. There is no reason it should slip with a good halyard. More so if you don't run the halyard through it when hoisting then they should never wear out.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: Wiclif
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 6:11pm
There are 2 versions of this cleat.

The silver coloured one is powder coated and bits tend to chip off the surface.

The less visually attractive one is a greyish colour and is anodised.  This version is vastly superior.


Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 6:43pm
It is a complete pain if the haliyard slips or even stretches, as it mess up all the settings on the rig. I never sorted this out with different haliyards or other tricks. One thing that did work ( but was a bit of a hassle), was to take the halyard from the cleat up to the goose neck and round it. Put a bight in the lower bit and get a 2:1 from the gooseneck to wind the tension on the haliyard, then tie it off. Not pretty but it wouldn't move from there.


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 7:16pm
Not allowed to make it 2:1 due to class rules


Replace the cleat with an anodised version not the cheaper silver one

Move the (I assume you use a bobble in the end of it) 6 inches so the rope cleats in a new spot at the bottom 

If the halyard even remotely looks worn/old just replace it with some 4mm Kingfisher evo race (has to be dyneema core or kevlar or it will stretch/snap). The mast is 7m~ long so 15m will give you plenty. 

Every 3 months chop 6 inches off, every year end for end it, every 2 replace it. Always make sure the cleat gets a wash after sailing as they don't take much to start corroding. Obviously this differs depending on how much use it gets.

If yours is anything like mine the location of the cleat + block means you cant pull the halyard up without it going through the cleat. If so then tie a new block onto the mast step and route it that way. Pic below 



 


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 8:25pm
Are you sure?

The cleat should line up with the front side of the exit hole, so offset by about 5mm. If you hoist with the halyard out of the cleat and to aft of the cleat it will run around the cleat. The offset isn't obvious, but is there. But even without the offset it should be possible to hoist with it out of the cleat and not going in, just there will be a tad more friction as it bends around the outside of the cleat.

Its not a massive issue if you hoist through the cleat, but you'l probably be replacing it each season. I've never had to replace mine, and that's with the silver version.  




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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 8:38pm
It was the friction I didn't like. The additional benefit of attaching the block to the mast step is that it wont eventually pull the rivet from the top of the lacing eye out the mast and leave a gaping hole


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 18 at 8:49pm
Ha, yeah, no pulling the block off is something that's happened to me, trying to hoist without it in a rush for race!

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https://www.youtube.com/user/656mozzy/" rel="nofollow - YouTube Channel
RS800 1144


Posted By: Charliecat5
Date Posted: 21 Nov 18 at 9:28am
Thanks all for your responses.  I think a new cleat and potentially a new block on the mast step is in order.  Particularly as the block has already come off!  


Posted By: Ardea
Date Posted: 21 Nov 18 at 9:45am
This is a really nice article (probably ott for most), but shows some really neat options for rigging the boat.  Also covers most of the rigging in one photo or another.
http://www.rsireland.com/tips/rs-200-mods



Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 21 Nov 18 at 9:12pm
I've trashed so many halliards on my 400 over the years, and yet again this last weekend. There is an issue with an edge in the mast sheave that we've tried to file down, but to little effect. When this next one goes, it'll be a wire halliard on a hook up.



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