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Enterprise Rigging

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13012
Printed Date: 20 Jun 18 at 4:01am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Enterprise Rigging
Posted By: jackselby3000
Subject: Enterprise Rigging
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 6:17am
I wonder if anyone can help me out. I have recently acquired a circa 1975 Enterprise and having had one growing up I took my father along to help me rig it up. I had watched various videos on how to rig one up and had seen that the forestay should be tied tight with rope and then tension eased with the tensioning of the jib halyard. However our forestay was too long for this and I felt nervous to adjust the shrouds. The bow plate had two rollers and a short double looped wire through it. After plenty of arguing, leading to my realisation that father owning an Enterprise 30 years ago was no qualification for this job, we agreed there should be no reason not to have forestay rigged to the front loop with the Jib attached to the rear loop and the rollers in the middle. I finally get to my question: is this rig going to be detrimental to the mast or rigging in any way? It seems a fairly logical way to rig but will a strong wind put too much pressure on the forestay and mast maybe. Any advise would be hugely appreciated.

Dinghy is a Jack Holt built composite number with needlespar mast and boom. I dont have a clear enough image of the bow plate but will update when I get one. Thanks for any advise.



Replies:
Posted By: Eisvogel
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 8:53am
The forestay doesn't have to be super tight, as long as it holds up the mast (stops it from falling backwards). Mine is also rather long, and then becomes very loose once you tighten the leaver on the jib halyard. 

Does that answer your question?


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Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986 (C U Laser)


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 9:21am
yes the forestay only has to stop the mast from falling down when the jib is not hoisted. The jib halliard provides rig tension the rest of the time. Is it possible the forestay was made to be just long enough to attach to the bow fitting without a rope strop or adjuster (i.e. the forward clevis pin goes through the hard eye)? There's no reason why that wouldn't work, the only issue would be if you wanted to adjust the mast rake and that's easy enough to solve with a couple of different length rigging links.

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Supernova 395 "dolly the sheep" (now sold but considering a second (mk3) Blaze as her replacement)


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 9:28am
These days (assuming there's a wire inside the jib) the forestay is only really there to keep the mast up when the jib isn't up, so no need to worry overmuch about its tension. I'm afraid I'm not very clear about exactly what you've gt from the description, but typically the bow fitting would have two pins, and you'd connect the forestay to the first and the jib to the second. There might also be an arrangement for mooring line. The photo linked below would be a typical fitting. I don't recognise your wire loops - perhaps a photo?

A bow fitting is usually https://www.sailboats.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/2a782bf291e2121a7504498fa66079ec/a/l/al-a4001e.jpg" rel="nofollow - like this one .


Posted By: Eisvogel
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 9:56am
(There's a colon missing after the https in the URL)

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Enterprise 20361 (Eisvogel), Laser 102727 (Halcyon), Laser 121986 (C U Laser)


Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Eisvogel

(There's a colon missing after the https in the URL)
So:   http://www.sailboats.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/2a782bf291e2121a7504498fa66079ec/a/l/al-a4001e.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://www.sailboats.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/2a782bf291e2121a7504498fa66079ec/a/l/al-a4001e.jpg

Agree with all the above, however I'm struggling with your description of "The bow plate had two rollers and a short double looped wire through it."  A photo would definitely help.


Posted By: jackselby3000
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 11:24am
http://www.flyfishergroup.com/images/ENT.jpg

Thank you all for the replies. In the image linked above there is a shackle keeping both loops on the wire together. To the right of this is a swivel with a clevis pin which was where I first attached the jib. However when attached there the wire halyard does not reach the hook on the highfield lever. Therefore what we tried was the forestay on one loop of the wire and the jib on the other. The rollers you can see then allow the tension created at the highfield to be shared equally between the forestay and jip wire.

My fear is that with a strong wind the junction of the mast and forestay will be stressed. If the forestay is supposed to be slackened by tensioning the jib then I will put the forestay in both wire loops and work a way to fill the gap between the bottom of the jib and clevis pin. It may be that the previous owner had a furling unit there.

It seemed like a great way to share the tension equally but has been niggling me since. Thank you again for quick replies.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 12:02pm
That's definitely someone's weird idea. and I don't think its doing anything useful. I'd change back to something more conventional. Apart from anything else it means a failure in either halyard or forestay will see the mast coming down, which is a very bad idea.

I'd remove both bolts, the blocks/pulleys/rollers and the wire and discard them.
Install standard clevis pins. Just tie the forestay to the front pin with a length of line, just taut enough so the mast doesn't doesn't rattle about in the wind when the jib is off.

Depending on the fine detail of the foot of the sail you can probably just shackle the jib straight to the clevis pin.
At the top of the jib you'll need to gain a little distance to get the halyard to reach. Is there a shackle or what? I would get a forged shackle (ie made from round metal not strip) and a metre of 1mm dyneema rope and make a lashing to get the distance right between shackle and the existing halyard. There are expensive forged shackles that have captive pins. I think they are well worth the money to end up with an undroppable pin...


Posted By: jackselby3000
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 12:52pm
Thanks Jim, it could be entirely my error as by the stage we’d got to that point I was willing to go with what ever father suggested to keep the peace.

http://www.flyfishergroup.com/images/JIB.jpg

This is what the top of the Jib currently looks like. I have a forged shackle on the halyard that goes into the top of this black swivel thingy. This was what made me wonder about the furling base.

I take it from your comment Jim that the jib is better closer to the deck than higher? I’m never going to race her or take her out in strong winds but your point about “lose the jib and the mast comes down now makes total sense. Taking her out in late March so will have a tinker about with her then and see what I can fashion.



Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 1:01pm
Yes, that's a furler fitting on the top. It may well be the other gubbins at the bottom was associated with a now vanished furler. Its certainly not conventional.

Yes, generally jibs are better closer to the deck, but the odd inch is neither here nor there for your purposes. So yep, I'd buy a metre of 1mm dyneema and put a lashing between shackle and halyard to make the length work, and a couple of clevis pins on the bottom.


Posted By: jackselby3000
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 1:36pm
Thanks Jim,

I’ll order some Dyneema now. I fear this will just be the start of questions though but what an efficient resource.

Thank you again for all the swift replies.


Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 6:16pm
I have an Enterprise, their are also several at my club, wooden ones, composite and GRP, all have the fitting shown in JimC's link, (almost certain furling jib not class legal).


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 8:23pm
Whilst Enterprises don't and aren't allowed to race with a jib furler, it could be useful for cruising, and would explain why the halyard isn't long enough with the jib mounted low down.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Topper 44496, Minisail 3131, Minisail 3446


Posted By: jackselby3000
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 10:01pm
I think maybe a furler for my jib could be the simplest answer. Class rules wont be an issue where she’ll be. Biggest issues will be keeping her out of the way of other boats and me out of the drink and in the pub.

Thanks again for all the help.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 Mar 18 at 11:13pm
A new jib furler would probably cost as much as a new jib..... but they are useful :) For crusing though I'd be inclined to keep things as simple as possible. use a rope strop to join the top of the jib to the halliard shackle and a lashing at the bottom of the forestay. Can't beat belt and braces (and, for cruising, add an extra piece of string...)

-------------
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Supernova 395 "dolly the sheep" (now sold but considering a second (mk3) Blaze as her replacement)



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