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Splicing/joining Lines

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12962
Printed Date: 20 Mar 19 at 9:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Splicing/joining Lines
Posted By: elzorillo
Subject: Splicing/joining Lines
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 1:48pm
I'm trying to replace the continuous lines on my dinghy and following the instructions from the online video below for joining 4mm marlow... I CANNOT get the outer to fit inside and pull through the other outer no matter how I try. It just seems far to big. Any suggestions what I could do please? or even an alternative rope that is easier to join

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_9YpYSsSM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_9YpYSsSM




Replies:
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 3:55pm
use the english braids equivelent. its dyneema rather than technora/snakeskin which gives it that matte feel

https://www.sailboats.co.uk/english-braids-continuous-control-line

Obviously the less grippy the rope the easier the splice will pull through. To counter this just make the splice a decent size (aka the full depth of your pull fid) Not had any issues with mine yet


Posted By: elzorillo
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 4:43pm
Thanks.. I'll give that a go.



Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 5:06pm
I used this stuff, just need the a wire or pull fid like the video rather that a push fid. Looks real neat when done.

English Braids own marlow... so marlow and braids could be same rope?


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 5:13pm
Marlow excel control

  • Durable Technora & polyester cover for high strength and abrasion resistance
  • Light weight polypropylene core

English Braids - Continuous Control Line


The Continuous Control line is a light polypropylene cored rope with durable high performance Dyneema® and polyester mix cover

ROOSTER EASYSPLICE™ CONTINUOUS CONTROL LINE


Rooster also do a continuous control which is also dyneema/polyester based but a little cheaper per meter than i could find the English Braids

https://www.roostersailing.com/pd/Rooster-EasySplice-Continuous-Control-Line_106104.htm


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 5:38pm
Pretty sure they're all the same. Technora is a marlow brand name fir a dynema. So they're all dynema / polyester covers with bulking polypropylene cores.

I bought mine off a reel with marlow branding. Was easy to splice. I'd be suprised if English braids manufactured an almost identical competing rope when they own marlow.

I'd check before replacing what you have. If you don't have a wire fid like the video then try getting one first.


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 7:56pm
Use a wire type pull fit then make sure you don’t have more rope in the grip that absolutely needed, its not actually much then you should be able to work it through. Too much rope in wire loop and you’ll fight for hours

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RS300, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 8:26pm
I struggled for hours with the Marlow control until I learned to thin the one you're trying to pull through by pulling out and snipping off some of the coloured strands. Leave the black, that's the 'Technora' which holds the strength.
I've no idea what 'Technora' is but it does not handle or react to heat like Dyneema, it's more like what Marlow call Vectran, ie. grippy not slippy and burns doesn't melt.


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 10:00pm
Marlow and English Braids have same ownership but their continuous splice products are very different. The Marlow one is a bitch to use. The EB one is a doddle by comparison.

FWIW, I've also had a Marlow line break on me (RS100 kicker and not on the splice) but the EB replacement has been in use twice as long with no bother.

Not had chance to try the Rooster one yet


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great new book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 21 Jan 18 at 11:28pm
Rooster's Spinfast is a re-branded Marlow 8 plait pre-stretched, its AllSpec Pro is also EB's  D-racer16 so I can only imagine that the Rooster Continuos Control is the EB Continuos Control line re-branded as well.

Rooster is a small company in comparison to the likes of Marlow and EB so I doubt they have the capability of producing a full range of products while still being competitive in price.


Posted By: mozzy
Date Posted: 22 Jan 18 at 8:07am
I take back my earlier comment about them being the same rope after reading this thread and having a browse of roosters site. Rooster sell both excel control (black technora) and their own branded easy splice which has the white flec dynema and looks the same as English braids. So the rooster version and EB may very well be easier to splice.

However, I really had no problem with the marlow excel control. Short taper on the end and pulled through. Might have been easier still with a wire fid.

If the OP doesn't have a wire fid then getting one would be cheaper than buying all new lines.


Posted By: elzorillo
Date Posted: 23 Jan 18 at 9:01pm
Thanks for all the comments.

I ended up ordering the Rooster Easy Splice, purely down to their excellent demonstration video on the site.

It's not arrived yet so cant comment on it.. but I will.


Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 23 Jan 18 at 10:10pm
It's a common miss conception that you need to use a specialist continuous  control rope for continuous control lines. Any dyneema cored rope can be used although the splice is admittedly a little more tricky although it is worth it because the rope is generally much better


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 6:55am
Originally posted by By The Lee

Any dyneema cored rope can be used although the splice is admittedly a little more tricky</span>

This may be true but Dyneema cored Polyester is not the best choice for control lines IMHO. The Polyester cover does not grip in the cleats as well as the 'Technora' stuff. Worse still the cover eventually parts and runs back like Nora Bat ties stocking.
Whatever 'Technora' is, it is grippy and wear resistant, and very strong.


Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 9:17am
the Rooster stuff was really ( err!) easy!   after failing with Marlow


Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 5:18pm
I think its just down to the rope you choose you can get Dymeena cored with technora cover that lasts for ever my favour is southern ropes GP T Braid


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

the Rooster stuff was really ( err!) easy!   after failing with Marlow

Thumbs Up


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great new book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 7:21pm
splicing continuous with a Dyneema core instead of Technora/Dyneema cover has the disadvantage of not having the same diameter at the splice as the rest of the rope which doesn't work well in the cleats.

It's also considerably harder to splice. Taper it then continuous splice rather than just cut the core out.

The cover is also a bit harder to open up on the non specifically designed stuff which also adds to to the frustration



Posted By: By The Lee
Date Posted: 24 Jan 18 at 7:49pm
Its possible to splice without just tapering down to the core is the diameter doesn't change much


Posted By: Ardea
Date Posted: 25 Jan 18 at 12:30pm
As said above, English braids stuff (and looks like the rooster stuff) is a much larger/looser weave and significantly easier to splice.  The Marlow stuff is extremely critical to tension in the outer braid, when pulling the other bit through.  A bit of water and plenty of patience to get the right tensions and 'kack' are what I've found is required.

P.S. I've got a couple of marlow splices coming up and am not looking forward to them!


Posted By: elzorillo
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 11:14am

Double post.. sorry Sleepy


Posted By: elzorillo
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 11:15am
Just an update..

Nine hours.. NINE HOURS!!! I spent last sunday trying to splice test bits of rope with pretty much no success.

The Rooster Easy Splice as recommended in this thread just arrived. literally 3 mins later I'd successfully spliced it with just a bit of old wire.  This stuff really is ridiculously easy to splice.

I know the splice is short.. It was just a test and I didnt want to use too much of it. No idea as yet how it will perform in the cleats but for splicing, it really is 'EASY'




Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 11:42am
my experience was the same. my splice overlap came out shorter than suggested but after a season of hauling and tensioning all is fine.


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 12:23pm
If it's that loose won't it shake out?  


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by piglet

If it's that loose won't it shake out?  

In temptation of Murphy's Law and speaking to soon, mine show no signs of it, no

As soon as the line is in tension, the outer seems to grip the inner nicely


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great new book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 12:31pm
It's when it's loose and flogging around that would worry me. 


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by piglet

It's when it's loose and flogging around that would worry me. 

In the 100, Phantoms and the like, the elastic take-ups means that never happens.

No take-ups in the RS200, but still never had a problem.

It's inevitable that the splice finds it's way into the working part of the line for much of a race too, where it's under tension most of the time


-------------
http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great new book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: elzorillo
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by piglet

If it's that loose won't it shake out?  

I very much doubt that would happen, but as a precaution you could always put a couple of stitches in it.




Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 26 Jan 18 at 4:34pm
As indeed you appear to have done on your test piece Wink

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: Ardea
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 1:28pm
I've a tangentially related question. How much slack do you leave in a system without elastic take-up? Just doing an rs200 and there doesn't seem to be a way to do a take-up, so length is more critical than on systems I've done before. Any suggestions?


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 04 Feb 18 at 4:55pm
set the kicker/downhaul to maximum off then leave enough to be able to reach it and pull comfortably while hiking out  


Posted By: GG NHRC
Date Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 12:32pm
I see some of you are struggling to splice the marlow excel elite and excel racing that has a technora/poly blended cover.

It is easy.

Measure your continuous control line length and mark where you want the two ends to join.

Add 300mm for cover bury onto each end.

From the point where your join is going to be, move 400mm up the line on each side and tie slip knots. Make them tight, this is so you don’t loose cover/core tension.

At the end of each side remove 420mm of core from each side.

With the ends you wish to join, taper the last 100mm then wrap this tightly with a tapering length of brown 1” parcel tape.

Find the point about 120mm from your join point, stick a folded 0.8mm piece of welding wire/seizing wire up the empty cover from the point where the core finishes, exit at your join mark. Hook the last inch of your parcel tape through the wire, pull the whole thing out repeat the other side then stitch at the join and trim the ends off.

Tapering the cores, the length of the bury and the use of brown parcel tape make this so much easier.

Prep time = 15 minutes

Time per splice = 5 minutes


Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 27 Aug 18 at 6:44pm
With the introduction of purpose built continuous ropes I'm not sure why you would ever try to splice Excel racing/elite





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