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preventing knots in spinnaker halyards?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
Printed Date: 22 Feb 19 at 8:11am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y -

Topic: preventing knots in spinnaker halyards?
Posted By: rs41212
Subject: preventing knots in spinnaker halyards?
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 4:21pm
What methods do the crews out there use to prevent the spinnaker halyard turning into a big ball of knitting when dropping a spinnaker?

I'm doing a stint in the front of a 400 and struggling to keep it tangle free on every drop. We are currently putting the haylard straight across the crew area like most 400's to prevent any helm feet scenarios.

Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 5:32pm
On the Spice I have an elastic tidy running back to the rudder post. Not perfect but it usually keeps things running freely. How often do you get tangles, every drop, one in 10 or fewer?

Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

Posted By: rs41212
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 5:48pm
It's in the fewer category but I'd like it to be never. A particularly bad one cost us quite a few places at the inlands a few weeks ago. I've seen elastic tidy up's work on 49ers but not sure how one would be fitted to the rather odd 400 setup.

Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 6:29pm
If you have that setup with the halliard in front of the crew, if you always ensure the halliard passes over pole launcher (which means you are doing a bit of housekeeping early on as you start each beat), that will help the tail of the launcher stay free of the halliard. It also helps if the halliard is as short as you dare make it so there isn't too much excess rope lolling about. We used to have an issue with the halliard going back into the cleat during drops so we fitted a small block on a thin bunjee, attached to the eye supporting the spinnaker shelf and ran the halliard thro that. This then pulled the halliard clear of the cleat when it was released.

Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 7:10pm
I Found that the rope type has a massive effect on how it knotted up. Some of the softest ropes tha went round the blocks great with no friction were a dissaster on knotting up. The ones that are stiffer and possibly more friction round the blocks didn't snag - makes sense.

Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 7:39pm
I lead our halliard around the back of the boat.
I don't know if it's better, it's always been like that.
The tangle factor is, as Oatsandbeans says a lot to do with floppy rope.
But also twists in the rope, which take time to work their way down the mast and into the cockpit.
Also there is rope about with a twisted/laid inner, this adds twists whenever the halliard gets a good stretch in a breeze.

Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 16 Oct 17 at 8:42pm
I spent a load of time making spliced haliyards with super thin Dynema SK78max? front ends and soft polyester back ends PS12. The polyester would tie itself in knots every time, it was so soft and slinky. Complete dissaster

Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 17 Oct 17 at 8:48am
On my 400 I have a block on the halyard fed back under thwart on bungee to try and keep it tangle free.
Like yours my halyard does not come aft but having something to add a bit of tension in theory might help. I also think how you hold it on the hoist can effect the rope.
Agree with others about type of rope being a factor.

Phantom 1430

Posted By: rs41212
Date Posted: 17 Oct 17 at 11:05am
Thanks all, we have a dyneema cored rope; switched from the provided 8 plait to reduce stretch which theoretically should improve acceleration but it seems to hold the kinks in it. Maybe there is a good middle ground somewhere. Might have to investigate some form of tension system in greater detail.

Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 17 Oct 17 at 11:16am
I have a dyneema cored halyard, tapered. The halyard runs to the back of the boat and has never once twisted or been trodden on. It goes through a 20mm block which is attached to the toestrap elastic at the aft end of the cockpit by the inspection hatch. Nothing particularly clever, keep it simple!

Posted By: ohFFsake
Date Posted: 18 Oct 17 at 10:29pm
Had a massive problem with this on my daughter's 29er at the Nationals this year. Brand new halyard tangled on pretty near every hoist, despite me stripping it off the boat between races and stretching it, folding it instead of coiling it etc. And that was with an elastic takeup! Borrowed a halyard off someone's spare mast and the problem was instantly cured.

My research since then leads me to believe it's all about the type of rope. On paper a dyneema core with a soft braid seems like the ideal solution but I think the opposite is true, as the core just winds up and springs the rope into kinks whenever you cycle the load on and off. So I think you want a rope with a soft core and a solid load-bearing outer.

Other tips seem to be:
1. never coil it up when towing. Fold it instead
2. elastic take-up if poss
3. big armfuls to keep it under tension all the way up / down
4. put the new halyard through the washing machine to take the spring out of it

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