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Getting back into sailing...

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12728
Printed Date: 18 Apr 24 at 7:25am
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Topic: Getting back into sailing...
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Getting back into sailing...
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 9:17am
I'm thinking about getting back into dinghy sailing after about 7 years off and am not really sure what to get boat-wise...

The last boat I owned/sailed was an RS600 (with a limited amount of success, admittedly!). Loved the performance and thrills but got frustrated by the boat quite a bit.

I'd like something with that level off performance but a bit more friendly than the 600. I'm 31 and about 90kg and in good shape, planning to be sailing inland most of the time...what boats would you guys recommend looking at?



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 9:29am
The dreaded Aero is surprisingly brisk. Its obviously not as fast as the 600, but the light weight makes it feel quicker than it is. There are only a very limited number of singlehanders that are genuinely as fast as the 600, and none are really that much more suited for confined spaces. But when you say inland do you mean Grafham Water sized or Frensham Pond sized venues?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 10:35am
I was toying with Bewl so a reasonable amount of space.

I've just noticed that Whitstable takes about the same time give or take so could consider there too if there's something that needs a bit more space!


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 10:37am
Water size definitely makes a difference. At 90KG a Phantom is pretty swift, but you are towards the lighter end of their weight range IIRC, as is an RS300.

As Jim has mentioned the 'dreaded' Aero I will plug the D-Zero and at 90KG you are well in the weight range that has shown to be competitive across the wind range. Quick enough on open water and nimble enough on the smaller gravel pits. Drop me a PM if you would like to know more or get a test sail.



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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 10:55am
Guessing that you're after a singlehander I'd look at Phantom or Supernova if you want to race to win, Blaze if you want fast but not too difficult to sail and Solo or L@ser if you want class racing. Finn if you want something more traditional.

I'm 75kg and bought a Spice 9 years ago (at 55 years old) for my 'return-to-dinghies' from Raceboards boat. Lack of regular crew led me to buy a Blaze last autumn and I'm loving it, quite manageable and (I think) competitive inland but better suited to open water.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 12:20pm
Contender and come down to Hythe, more friendly than Bewl or Whitstable and at 31, you're not too late to become a proper sailor.



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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Guessing that you're after a singlehander I'd look at Phantom or Supernova if you want to race to win, Blaze if you want fast but not too difficult to sail and Solo or L@ser if you want class racing. Finn if you want something more traditional.

I'm 75kg and bought a Spice 9 years ago (at 55 years old) for my 'return-to-dinghies' from Raceboards boat. Lack of regular crew led me to buy a Blaze last autumn and I'm loving it, quite manageable and (I think) competitive inland but better suited to open water.

I'd agree with that. The Blaze tacks relatively slowly so tacking on every shift on a small inland puddle isnt really an option. Much better on more open water though and sheet loads are now a lot lower with aft sheeting.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 2:37pm
Sheet loads on the Blaze with aft sheeting are super low compared to the Spice (centre mainsheet and a 12M FB mainsail).

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 3:12pm
RS300 or D-Zero ... check them out. 300 has all the thrills with none of the frustrations of the 600. It'll still bite and make you feel alive though.

A D-Zero feels like a 300 backed off a little- probably nicer in a mixed handicap fleet as it sits in the sweet spot of faster than a Laser but not sub 1000.


Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 5:24pm
He's young, fit and has trapeze experience, he doesn't want to be pissing about in coffins for the undead, the easier, some would say better option than an RS600 is the Contender is it not and they sail them around here, there's an open meeting going on in Whitstable today I believe. You lot are always cracking on about class racing, there's none on Bewl and Whitstable tends to MPS or Foils I think these days but there are a few Contenders in Kent, sufficient for them to organise local open meetings at least, so that is his best option, it would be my best option if they made one lighter and with a smaller rig.

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 Apr 17 at 7:11pm
Guys, thanks for the speedy and enthusiastic responses!

Was originally thinking a 300 or a Finn but like the idea of being able to trapeze...How does the stability of a Contender compare with that of a 600?


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 8:35am
Much better- but honestly what has always put me off the Contender is the light wind performance - you need a good F4 to get them in their element. Sadly my local wind stats has always meant the head has won over the heart in buying one.

One frankenboat idea that I like but haven't put into practice - a Phantom with wires, hike in light wind (well gently perch anyway) but then get on the wire when it becomes too
Much like hard work!!!


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 8:41am
If you've space why not a Musto (or a 700 if you must).

Yeah a handful to start with, but you said you were fit and when you get it then all those others will just seem dull 


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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 9:04am
He is asking for something a bit more user friendly than the 600 Clown

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 9:25am
There's a Guy at our club can make a Contender go in light airs, he does it by playing the kicker almost continually, that and he is at the lighter end of the Contender lard boy spectrum, he has held me off in the EPS and I'm no slouch in light weather.
Having said that I can imagine they would be sticky on fresh water with that hull, but most years it's only a Contender that can take on the Bandits in our series. The only thing that seems awkward is the low boom, and they are damn heavy, but other than that they seem very manageable to sail, certainly compared to a 600.

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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

He is asking for something a bit more user friendly than the 600 Clown

Both have more form stability than a 600 and on that basis are more user friendly, although I don't think a 600 is that difficult once you've learnt to react to it.

The other options being suggested are much more user friendly though
 




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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 11:47am
An anecdote to the form stability thing. 

A friend of mine has had both a 600 & Musto and also sailed my Contender, he reckons the Musto is the most "stable" of the three.

I think that he was saying both in form and dynamic stability. 




Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 12:05pm
I used to sail the 600 inland too, you really had to be on your game when it came to the lulls or you'd just get dunked. 

From memory the MPS was a little less of a soap dish at the back so I expect there's slightly more stability from that.

I think maybe a sensible route back in my be a non-trapeze boat to get me used to being in a boat instead of a windsurf board and then move to a Contender or MPS as I get comfortable.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 12:27pm
Blaze then, most of the characteristics of the skiffy things but a more stable platform Tongue unless you want a kite that is.......

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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Blaze then, most of the characteristics of the skiffy things but a more stable platform Tongue unless you want a kite that is.......

[shudder]that'll be a short return to sailing after a RS600 then...[/shudder]

Echo Neptune - MPS is easier to sail than the 600, obviously there's a bit more going on on the corners, and you can't jessie gybe around the marks in windy weather like you could on 600, not without dropping the kite.  They're great fun with a fantastic class association, but a 300 might offer a easier re-entry into sailing, especially if you can't commit to regularly sailing week-in, week-out through the initial learning curve, nor are looking to make use of the circuit.    

Graeme- the fact that the Contender (970) can live with you in an EPS (1030) in light winds, isn't exactly an accolade mate.....  they suck in light winds, even the guys at the zephyr Oxford Blue a couple of years ago agreed.... they were getting ghosted by kids in Aero 5s at the time.   They're a fantastic sea boat, or on short chop big lakes / inland waters with wind (Medemblik, Garda etc), but they're rarely in their element inland in Blighty.     



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by turnturtle



]Graeme- the fact that the Contender (970) can live with you in an EPS (1030) in light winds, isn't exactly an accolade mate.....  they suck in light winds, even the guys at the zephyr Oxford Blue a couple of years ago agreed.... they were getting ghosted by kids in Aero 5s at the time.   They're a fantastic sea boat, or on short chop big lakes / inland waters with wind (Medemblik, Garda etc), but they're rarely in their element inland in Blighty.     



Because they are too effing heavy, reckon if I had one built to the sort of weight I can handle, had the plate made from carbon instead of heavy whatever wood they use it could be a really nice boat but I don't disagree they suck on inland water, but our YOUNG friend here should be aspiring to the coast if he is within striking distance of Whitstable and there they did have a half decent MPS fleet so that could also be an option especially if he's 90 kgs, which was my problem with the boat, it's not difficult to make it go, it's just tricky if you're too light which I was/am, so either a Contender which would be cheap, or Musto which is less so. Why it is all the good boats are built for lard boys I don't know.


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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 3:42pm
agreed on many of those points....

- go to the coast if possible, inland should be for winters only if < 60 minutes from a sea club

- Contenders are TOO heavy, agreed 100%; but try telling that to rest of the International Class with their vested interests....
 


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 7:34pm
One person's "vested interests", another person running a successful international class, and wanting to keep it that way.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 9:45pm
Richrocksmy: If you want to race, you won't find much at Bewl: the club folded a couple of years back. Best inland stretch in that part of Kent is Bough Beech. A few Finns, Phantoms and Supernovas there which go well. Contenders don't really prosper.

For proper sea sailing in Kent I think Whitstable is hard to beat: friendly club too. Miles of Medway tidal water off Wilsonians and a few keen Blazes. Don't really know about East Coast Kent Clubs - some keen Contenders at Downs I think. I'm sure the south coast is good too if you don't mind the wave breaks on the shingle...


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Apr 17 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Rupert

One person's "vested interests", another person running a successful international class, and wanting to keep it that way.


Indeed - but it just doesn't suit my personal desires with this specific class ;-)


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 25 Apr 17 at 7:54am
The Contender struggling in the light is not anything to do with its weight - there are lots of much heavier boats that go very well in the light - Finn, Albacore etc etc etc

Its the hull shape (no real rocker) and the long boom that tends to tighten the leech.

The centreboards are already carbon if required - makes no difference to light wind performance though ?

A helm of 90kg would be fine for a Finn or Phantom inland (and most of the time on the sea really - if fit enough)





Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 25 Apr 17 at 8:38am
At last rich96, a voice of reason over rumour on the Contender facts. The much lighter carbon boom does make it a bit more user friendly in the light now although not necessarily any quicker. 

I am often surprised at the suggested helm weights needed for classes, I'd have thought 90kg is adequate for all the bigger single handers. Ultimate upwind speed in big wind yes weight pays but there are plenty of other aspects to our game than pure grunt n power. 



Posted By: E.J.
Date Posted: 25 Apr 17 at 9:04am
Kent is increasing in numbers for Contenders at the moment, 6 at Broadstairs with pockets at Downs & Hythe. Helps with the polarised performance if you have boats to Yot against.

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Posted By: G.R.F.
Date Posted: 25 Apr 17 at 10:06pm
The only problem with Whitstable and Wilsonian is the requirement that helms have six fingers and marry their sisters, we're not so insistent on inbreeding on the south coast.

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