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Wife experience helm & Husband 95kg crew

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Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
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Topic: Wife experience helm & Husband 95kg crew
Posted By: Jonoandnic
Subject: Wife experience helm & Husband 95kg crew
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 7:44pm
My wife and I have just sold are Topaz Xenon and are now looking for a new racing dinghy, we found the Xenon slightly over powered when using spinnaker over a force 5, and hopeless in light winds due to the heavy crew, me......
Just wondered if any one has some ideas/experience what we should get next, 2000, Argo, RS 200, Lark, Merlin Rocket, Scopion, Laser vago or any other ideas 

We enjoy are racing together and just need get the right dinghy for a heavy crew who is still learning but learning quickly 

J&N 



Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:02pm
Fireball?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: realnutter
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:19pm
Ahem... without trying to be impolite, what's your total crew weight?

An N12 might suit... No spinny, but that's a bonus in my opinion...


Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:28pm
About 160kg in total 


Posted By: realnutter
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:37pm
Maybe a little heavy for an N12.. but different designs carry weight better...  They are insanely complex boats though... my 1984 one has adjustability on all three stays, on the water.. plus the dangly pole.. a few more ropes...

Perhaps a Merlin might be right for you... similar levels of complexity, but a bit bigger...

If you want to play in a 12, I'm in Berkshire, and yes, I am trying to sell it!  350 inc trailer, and you can take it away!




Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:40pm
Guess we both must loss a few KG's Wink


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:42pm
You're not going to fit up the front of an RS200 at that weight, I know 'cause I don't. RS400 in theory would be a reasonable choice, but the mainsail is fearfully heavy for some reason, which might not suit your good lady. Certainly I find it unacceptable for me.
Where you sail probably makes a difference and is worth listing. also what popular local classes are, if only because they'll be the easiest to get a trip round the bay in.


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:42pm
The big question is do any fleets exist at your home club. While you might not be absolutely perfectly sized, you'd be better off sailing amongst others who you can learn from and compete directly against.

Albacores, GP14s, Enterprises, Kestrel, etc. would all work.

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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:48pm
Does anyone know about Larks we saw them last week at the dinghy show? 


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 8:57pm
Might be a tad substantial for a Lark.


Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 13 Mar 16 at 9:23pm
160kg is a smidge over 25 stone, so too big for Ents and Larks and probably too big for a GP.  A Kestrel or Albacore would be a better bet from those already mentioned IMO.


Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 6:00am
Osprey? And due to the introduction of the new MKV there will probably be a number of older boats on the market as owners 'trade up'.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 9:55am
Husband and Wife at that weight perfect Alto combination.

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Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:00am
25 stone would be ok for a gp.
where abouts are you based?


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(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:45am
A GP? WTF? Here they are a dynamic couple used to flying a spinnaker in a force five, what the hell do they want a clapped out junk pile like a GP or any of that other dross mentioned above, for all it's faults, plastic, heavy the Xenon is at least from this century.

Now they also appear to be in Kent, so should shoot over to Wilsonian and try and get a go in a proper boat that will be both easier to sail and more exciting.

A GP? FFS neal you need help, I think I'm going to have to have a word with your Mrs, see if she can't get some herbal medication to see if that helps...

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Posted By: AlanH
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 11:39am
Your combination perfect for an Osprey, just right weight and distribution. Fast boat, but well mannered, perfect for learning to trapeze. Yes there are now Mark 4s (those are recent GRP/ FRP boats) going on market as Alastair says above. PM if you'd like more info. Class info on www.ospreysailing.org. Good national and regional racing circuits. Growing fleet with lots people buying the latest Mark 5 version, just launched.

Alan Henderson
Class assn marketing rep


Posted By: Jamesd
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 2:20pm
400 all the way!
Very forgiving and great for large crews
The main is only loaded in a F2-3 and even then it is not heavy, I've seen plenty of women helm them and do very well! Theres a great purchase on the mainsheet system and kicker....they do all the work



Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 4:15pm
Perfect Osprey combination. Go Osprey I say. We know it makes sense. 
Marvellous Clap


Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 7:16pm
scorpion or kestrel would fit. there is a great looking scorp' up for grabs in Kent on apolloduck (nothing to do with me, but looks well)


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 7:36pm
Get a laser and a laser radial... Before it gets ugly/expensive


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 7:42pm
It's like one of those horror movies watching what goes on here, like loads of arms coming up from the pits of hell trying to drag our heroes down , to ride the river styx in some hell craft.

Never mind the fact they've been sailing an assy, no let's recommend our symmetric crap with it's poles and its useless can't beat a balloon downwind kite..designed alongside Noah's creation.

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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 8:08pm
Graeme stop being a dick, the original post stated that they found a Xenon overpowered in a F5, therefore why suggest boats that would also be a challenge in those conditions. The dumbass saying RS400, oh yeah because that's going to be so much easier in a F5 than a Xenon. Some of you guys really need to realise the damage you do to the sport when you encourage less experienced people into your favourite boats. Some will follow your advice swim lots and give up on the sport.

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable. Also if you are 10kg over the recommended national champion weight for a given class, it won't matter a jot for club sailing.

So, to the original poster, ignore most of the guff spouted on this forum and just have a go in whatever you have a local fleet of, you'll get far more enjoyment out of this sport if you do.

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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 8:46pm
I would have thought a 2000 would fit the bill very nicely.


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 9:16pm
I'd tend to agree if they have a reasonable local fleet.

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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by craiggo

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable.

Trouble is mate, that isn't true either, its just another myth people like to peddle. Usually people who are desperately struggling to keep a local fleet in being, which is often very hard indeed.

But you're right, we should have explored the overpowered in F5 thing a bit more. Because it doesn't matter what boat you sail (well within reason), you are going to be well overpowered in a F5 because that's the way the wind works.. Well unless you have tiny sails up. But with suitable sailing technique and boat setup its all manageable.

So (to the OP) we need to explore why you had trouble with the Xenon in a F5. I've sailed the Xenon a bit and I think it is a bit of a brute in breeze because it hasn't got the most dynamic of rigs. And I guess I'm guilty of assuming that was the issue.

So the first question, I suppose, is, have you sailed other boats in F5 and found them manageable. We need to find out whether it was the boat or technique that was making things difficult for you, or maybe a bit of both.

Then we need to know what sort of boat you two want to sail. The RS400 is kinda like a more sophisticated Xenon, and so that was my first thought, although I have grave doubts about the mainsheet loads. They do fit a forward hand your size though, I know because I is...

Now the Lark and the other older boats have pole kites. You don't want to buy a pole kite boat without being very sure that's what you want, based on decent experience sailing with them. They have vocal adherents on here but I wouldn't go back to sailing with one regularly, and I was brought up with them and very suspicious of the new sprit kites when they came out.

Similarly other suggestions are trapeze boats. Well, that may be fine, but again is it what you want to do. If it is that's fine, but again you want to be sure before you shell out the cash.

And a lot of this is going to depend on where you sail.

The real arguments for sailing a boat that's vaguely popular locally are two fold. The first is that the boat will probably be reasonably suited for the local conditions, so you don't get landed with a boat that will never be nice to sail where you are. The second is that you can, assuming they're a reasonably friendly bunch, get tips and tricks on how to handle the boat and maybe lessons from the class enthusiasts in technique and the like. And don't underestimate this: it can be very valuable. But it ain't going to compensate for not wanting to go sailing because the boat is a horrible lump that feels like navigating a brick, or conversely because its a mad flyer that catapults over the horizon without you being able to control it.


Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:04pm
Evening 

My wife and I really enjoy reading your posts, very funny..... I see you are just down the road in Hythe..what would recommend! 

Even though the Xenon was slightly over powered, we only capsize her 1/2 dozen times in 3 years...my wife has been sailing for over 20 years and competed at national level in several different dinghies. We competed a the 'Xenon Nationals' last year and on the Saturday it was a F5-6 and we were top after 4 races but the wind dropped to a F1-2 on the Sunday and came 3rd overall (14 boats attended) I have been sailing/racing now for 2 years so perhaps are underestimating how good we are....I think we just want a better dinghy than a Xenon 

Jon 





Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:13pm
I think you are right about being a brute, we were great up wind no one could get near us with my weight hiking hard....just when that massive kite goes up we struggled with big wind shifts....and gybing in for F5-6 was touch and go.....


Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:15pm
There was a Xenon fleet at the late lamented Bewl Valley. Most of them have gone to Bough Beech. If you are in that area, there are several fast 2000s at BBSC which would give you good competition in that class if you want to stick with asymetric, but they don't prosper in light airs on handicap. If pole kiting, there are also a couple of very fast Scorpions there which do well on handicap in most winds. Or kiteless: an Albacore, another a great all-rounder.


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:43pm
There used to be lots of top Albacores helmed by women with male crews with similar weights. The Simmonds at South Cerney for instance. Well worth a look.

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OK 2129
RS200 411


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 14 Mar 16 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by Jonoandnic

Evening 

My wife and I really enjoy reading your posts, very funny..... I see you are just down the road in Hythe..what would recommend! 

Even though the Xenon was slightly over powered, we only capsize her 1/2 dozen times in 3 years...my wife has been sailing for over 20 years and competed at national level in several different dinghies. We competed a the 'Xenon Nationals' last year and on the Saturday it was a F5-6 and we were top after 4 races but the wind dropped to a F1-2 on the Sunday and came 3rd overall (14 boats attended) I have been sailing/racing now for 2 years so perhaps are underestimating how good we are....I think we just want a better dinghy than a Xenon 

Jon
The key bit of advice here is, whatever you do, treat any advice from iGRF, our resident troll, windsurfing-genius but dinghy-sailor-impersonating-a-petulant-opinionated-adolescent very very carefully.

Injection moulded boats like the Xenon are far from ideal in many ways, to be blunt. You are right to move on.

I concur with others that it is worth a bit of compromising to get some class racing. 

Ideally, you want to have a decent try at sailing together is several classes before splashing the cash. 

And discuss between you what you want from your sailing; club handicap race fun, class racing, open-meeting touring, thrills and spills or less danger of swimming, close tactical racing or the joy of sailing something that just brings a smile to your faces. And agree a budget, which needs to fit the class. Buying a 1,000 Merlin is unlikely to prove a good-buy. Apollo-Duck is probably the best place to check what is on the market and going rates for a decent specimen. Factor in whether and when you will need to spend on post-purchase upgrades (sails, re-roping). A new trailer road-base is now 700+, so if you will be travelling, factor that into the value calculations, when a 2nd hand boat does or does not come with a trailer.

From what you've said, you have got a decent amount of power/weight to use, which would compromise the enjoyment of several classes, including Nat12, Lark (you'll nose-dive both in any decent breeze/waves) RS200 and Scorpion. Merlins are going great guns as a class but aint cheap and require lots of string pulling (and the knowledge to back that up). The 400 would be a good bet as a hiker with a kite. So would an Albacore (but it has no spiny at all, but boring for crew downwind)A 200 carries weight well, but the rig aint that big and it weighs only slightly less than an aircraft carrier. But I do agree with grf that life is too short to spend time in a GP14, with the possible exception of the worlds in Barbados in a few days time

Adding a trapeze for the crew opens up a different vista again. Steve Cockerill seems to be revitalising the Laser 4000 (1 trap +assymetric kite) and they can be bought cheaply. Bit heavy again. Fireball's continue to be strong but don't even think about a 470. I love Osprey's but its a big old beast if half the money of a 505. 

A trick worth thinking about is taking a sailing holiday at somewhere like Minorca sailing, where you can try all sorts of different boats - check their websites for what they have. For the rest, contact the class association and arrange a test sail. CA's are also a good source of wisdom as to things to look out for when buying a second-hand boat.

Have fun; exciting decisions to make


Clive






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Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 8:00am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by craiggo

If there is a good local fleet it doesn't matter if it's an old style of boat, what matters is that the racing is competitive and enjoyable.

Trouble is mate, that isn't true either, its just another myth people like to peddle. Usually people who are desperately struggling to keep a local fleet in being, which is often very hard indeed. 

Can be true, in the right circumstances:



(Admittedly this was their ?75th anniversary regatta. But they still do pretty well for a one-village class.






Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 8:40am
so where do you sail then is the big question?

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(Redoubt Sc)
Miracle 4040
GP14 13407

Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 9:33am
well if you only tipped it in half a dozen times or so, despite sailing something as ungainly as a Xenon in a F5, I think we could all agree on something.... well done!

You are in a very awkward slot - being too heavy for the 200 and possibly a little on the light side for a 400, especially in fruity conditions.  RS brought out the 500 for combinations such as yours, but honestly it's a pig of a boat.  This kind of rules out the RS doubleheaders, which is a shame as they are very much a 'safe bet' for club racing asymmetric dinghies.  

I wouldn't rule out symmetric spinnakers - most classes have adapted to make handling them quite a bit easier- twin poles, or at least spiro systems to launch the pole automatically.  This opens up Merlin Rockets and Fireballs - both are great thriving classes with good quality boats from 3 to 4 grand upwards and you'd probably find somewhere locally where there are couple or so forming a mini-fleet.  But I do agree with Jim, it could be worth going for a sail in one first- symmetric kites aren't for everyone.  



  




Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:21am
These people on here, bless them, are well meaning enough, but they are the product of their upbringing, shackled to pre history, a world of clubs and classes where nirvana is everyone sailing the same stuff.

The real world for grown ups trying to improve is full of dross and half assed heavy crap, or you go back and sail the same old sh*t they've been pedalling for centurys and really it is so complicated as to give no one a chance of doing much better than midfleet.

So my suggestion is get something fast and modern, so you get the sizzle as well as the sausage, all that switching the bloody pole from side to side in a gybe, it's back there with crank starting your bentley at the start of the 1922 le Mans.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but the Xenon is a single action pole out hoist kite all in one move device and is asymmetric so you sail angles downwind and theoretically end up beating that balloon to the lower mark. In truth, the RS400 would be worth a look it's a good boat, but it is a hiker, so no wire to lever that extra speed upwind or on a tight reach. The RS Vision is another plastic boat that's similar in many ways but unless it's blowing dogs of chains like your Xenon is slow and unresponsive and as such feels overpowered when other boats might break free, plane and lighten up.

Your welcome to come down to Hythe, but all we've got are Visions, my Alto is still off the water at the moment but if you google Wilsonian and Alto Boats there are a few Man & Wife teams up there ripping the medway up in their Alto's. Another one you could look at, although it's getting a bit below the weight threshold is the Buzz it's been undergoing a revamp lately I think they have some of them up there as well though can't be sure.

Don't get side tracked by tales of Merlins, Fireballs and all that other old stuff, trust me I've been trying to get the hang of this lark for ten years now and it is complicated enough as it is without all the extra ropes and whiz bang bits that half of them don't really even know what to do with, they get recommended because Industry jocks can sell sails to the lower echelon in the various classes in the mistaken belief the sails will make them go faster.

Finally anything with a pole to switch as well as the rest of the stuff you do in a gybe is more complicated than needs be when you're improving, the big deal with the Alto and to a lessor extent the RS400 you just cant the pole to one side or the other when you are saiing low and slow so you can often hold your position at least on a dead run against the likes of all that old stuff, then heat it up again on tighter reaches.

Where in Kent are you by the way?

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:37am
Whilst there is a small pocket of activity in deepest, darkest Peru Kent for the Alto (Asbo as it's called around here given Graeme's preoccupation with pimping its virtues), it's worth noting that Pinnell and Bax, one of the UK's most respected dinghy specialist, de-listed it several years ago now as it simply didn't sell and has been a bit of dead duck.  

I would caution against the resale value on such a boat.... but then if you get good close racing against others, then to some extent, SFW?  


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:45am
Ask that Turnturtle how many times he's sailed a two man boat lately, Pinnel and Bax in truth are 505 specialists, the Alto challenges the 505 so what do you do if your main livlihood is the sale of 505's and a competitor comes along? That's right you grab the agency from a trusting soul and sit on it.

The class is still growing albeit slowly, like the X1 X0 they keep a low profile and get on with it, I'll not go into the tales of class protectionism that abound in this nightmare sport, all I'd say is have a look at those three, the Alto, the Buzz and the RS400, if your Mrs is as experienced as you say she'll soon have you knocking at the front door of most club races in any one of those. I've taken a complete never sailed before novice to the front of our club races in no time at all in an Alto, really easy to sail and bloody quick. Resale value? The one on that stand at the dinghy show, well beaten up went for 7 grand I believe.

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:49am
I don't need to sail one regularly to know which are the more successful classes, where money is safer invested and to spot a dead duck when I see one.  Which the Asbo is, you mention yours is off the water at the moment.... what's that, 20% of the national fleet?

FWIW - there's some current discussion about getting a Fireball next year anyway ;-)  Although the 400 still tickles a fancy in the double handed arena.  


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 10:57am
There you go... National Fleet, needs a class, which of course is bollox, there are twenty odd Alto's about now, all being used in various parts of the country, they had one for sale and it went at the show, nobody sells them, that one only went as an upgrade and there are not that many secondhand Alto's and if they do come up they go very quickly, because it is so well liked by anyone lucky enough to get to own one, like me. It has one major flaw, self balers, that's it and that is a hangover from your blessed 505 which has been known arguably as the Rolls Royce of single trap performance boats over the years, but, like all that other stuff is a plumbers nightmare with all the ropes and rig controls, enough to give a new crew a heart attack as well as a mental breakdown.

The only dead duck around here is a moribund sport that will not move with the times.

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 11:04am
Originally posted by iGRF

There you go... National Fleet, needs a class, which of course is bollox

true, you could argue that it's a meaningless bollock, if you were happy with handicap racing only.  

What difference does open meetings, championships, a wider resale market, training weekends, active website, builder investment, sail development, international 'holiday' opportunities etc make?  Not a lot, when you are happy with handicap racing only.  

So pray, tell us, you find that rewarding currently?  You're happy with that yes?  I must have been mistaken, you see I'm sure there was a rant only a few weeks back how that was a load of b**locks too.  

I'd leave the frosting off if you want to have your cake and eat it fella....  I wouldn't want you to choke.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:05pm
Can't have you having the final word, but the fact is, you can't have both, new, exciting AND an established class, even less so now the activity is in, what can we say, a mature state, rather than suggest decline.

You know, even if the finest vessel known to mankind were to surface, you lot would can it, if there were not two hundred of them spread round the country with fleets to race against. Which is exactly why you have the mess you have at the moment, loads of lasers, solos, fireball, merlins, all very well for folk well versed in how to make them go, but next to useless for newcomers. Particularly newcomers that haven't had the benefit of years of squaddying, sense deprivation, and all other brainwashing that you unfortunates have had to deal with, but luckily you've now got me to set your minds free, take the red pill, get down the rabbit hole, see how far it goes..

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Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:28pm
We are in Kent at the Moment, have been sailing at Bewl last year and BB though Aut/Winter but my wife has a new job so we are now moving to Ipswich, her new school is next to Harwich SC and 10 mins from Alton water 


Posted By: Jonoandnic
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:29pm
Sounds loss weight to sail the 200 or eat more the sail the 400 


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Jonoandnic

Sounds loss weight to sail the 200 or eat more the sail the 400

I suspect you'll find the 200 is more space than weight. There really isn't that much room up the sharp end for a reasonable sized bloke. The 400 on the other hand should be fine with that weight.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:37pm
And there's an Alto or two up at Alton if I'm not mistaken so you could at least get a look at one, the designer comes from round that way, there and on the River Deben.

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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by iGRF

... but luckily you've now got me to set your minds free, take the red pill, get down the rabbit hole, see how far it goes..

yep, a small hole in the ground, suitable to piss in and sail whatever wunderboot 3000 you're recommending all by your lonesome.

Back to the OP- Alton Water, nice stretch of inland water and reasonably benign.  I'd be very tempted to get a 400 on there in your situation and use it to also explore the Orwell and Stour rivers for long fun cruises in the summer.  

 A little under the optimum weight won't be an issue in those parts, East Anglia is typically less windy than other areas of the country unless you go for the more exposed areas- even then, you'd be fine.  I've know several husband and wife combos make 400s work there.


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 15 Mar 16 at 3:56pm
So an Osprey would be fine then........  


Posted By: vscott
Date Posted: 20 Mar 16 at 9:50pm
As a wife sailing with her  84ish kg husband we have a lot of fun in the Osprey, although a few extra kg could be very useful at times.  Several wife and husband teams in the Osprey fleet these days!

It is a big, but forgiving boat, that you can de-power for the bigger winds, and challenge the crew with trapeze and spinnaker.  (I think Michael enjoys the challenges of symmetrical, it does take skill to fly well, but so satisfying when you get it right.)

I imagine the Alto is great for getting going quickly, but is it enough of an ongoing challenge for a crew with self tacking jib and asymmetric kite? Depends on what really attracts you.

The best idea is to see if you can have a go in whatever you decide is your short list, preferably in a well set up boat.  Don't get something just because it is a bargain.

And enjoy!


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Mk IV Osprey 1314 Think Again

Kielder Water Sailing Club


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 21 Mar 16 at 6:05pm
W?


Posted By: Mick Greenland
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 8:05am
Hi J&N,

Looking at peoples suggestions I think they are missing the main point 'Your an Ideal weight for an Osprey'
I've sailed Rs's and smaller boats but find the Osprey the most forgiving in up to Force 6 compared with my 505; I own both! I'm 65kg and my crews weigh in at 14 and 19 stone, always manageable and don't remember the last time 'we' fell in!
With the new Mk V out there many Mk4's up for sale including mine. plus a few woodys. So, as you are in Kent and I'm on Sheppey maybe have a test sail or just see what the Osprey is all about.Smile

Cheers Mick G

01795 870505







Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 8:53am
Originally posted by vscott


I imagine the Alto is great for getting going quickly, but is it enough of an ongoing challenge for a crew with self tacking jib and asymmetric kite? Depends on what really attracts you.


I suspect teams sailing in a 49er think something similar, if only there was more of a challenge because of asymmetric and self tacking jib!


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RS300 and RS200, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 8:57am
Originally posted by iGRF

It's like one of those horror movies watching what goes on here, like loads of arms coming up from the pits of hell trying to drag our heroes down , to ride the river styx in some hell craft.

Never mind the fact they've been sailing an assy, no let's recommend our symmetric crap with it's poles and its useless can't beat a balloon downwind kite..designed alongside Noah's creation.


And it goes on and on....

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 10:04am
There were 608 PY Returns for the Osprey vs less than 200 for the Alto- the Osprey has heritage and numbers, therefore definitely a safer investment than one of these new fangled classes with limited following.


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 10:33am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by iGRF

It's like one of those horror movies watching what goes on here, like loads of arms coming up from the pits of hell trying to drag our heroes down , to ride the river styx in some hell craft.

Never mind the fact they've been sailing an assy, no let's recommend our symmetric crap with it's poles and its useless can't beat a balloon downwind kite..designed alongside Noah's creation.


And it goes on and on....

Whilst, in your world, we are throwing away and buying different for every sailing boat that does not comply with your definition of 'modern', (even if it is worse at cheating the tide a run or too skittish in a chop) perhaps we should also;
  • pull down and rebuild every house in the country that is not an 'eco-house' 
  • rip up all the roads and build them with full service tunnels underneath and surfaces that do not disintegrate at the first sign of a lorry or frost
  • rebuild bridges and tunnels so we can have taller, double-decker trains (running on new track and signalling of course)
  • and, and, and, and.

The "if I wanted to go there, I would not start from here" meme equally applies to all

And I bet all those dinghy-sailors arriving in Barbados about now will have a great time in the GP14s regardless of your disapproval and scorn.






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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 10:40am
TBH I can think of dozens of better things to do in Barbados than drift around in a dirty old 1950's plywood box with a couple of rags punting it through the azure crystal blue seas over the coral reefs, past the pure white beaches with palms swaying, whilst kites lift their riders over the warm waves and windsurfers dance in the noon day sun. No get back in your sweat boxes GP boys and girls and get out there, don't forget some water we've got four races to do back to back...

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 11:00am
I hope they raise a toast to you tomorrow night Graeme... Maybe from the Roundhouse in Bathsheba, I'd say the Cliff or Daphne's on the west coast but we both know they'd be too tight fisted for those spots.


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 12:49pm
I dont know rude comments about old boats and what is your latest toy!
Virtually as old and nowhere near as develpoed as the Geriatric Punt

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 12:55pm
My latest Toy could provide the basis for revolution, you never know..

And anyway, it's beautiful wheras a GP14 is ugly, has a history of being sailed by Scrooge and his descendents and has no place in the modern world. I'm guessing there is some historic sailing project in Barbados where they welcome anachronisms, a bit like those battle re enactments.. That's probably what's really happening.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 2:00pm
If it was a Toy that would be worth playing with.
Someone will have a photo to show on here.

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 2:07pm
Well far be it from me to let a thread drift..


Then I clicked an image in google and it lead straight to http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7733&title=tonys-own-yacht" rel="nofollow - this , so maybe something to continue with in the Minisail thread?

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Mar 16 at 4:54pm
I guess I'm one of the few on here who have owned both, so I shall pop over there and comment!

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446



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