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Which Boat

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
Printed Date: 04 Dec 21 at 5:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y -

Topic: Which Boat
Posted By: giwy1
Subject: Which Boat
Date Posted: 09 Jul 15 at 11:17pm
ok you might have read my last post which had a lot of questions, so after taking your advice and watching YouTube videos this is the situation. 

My new club does not race, which is fine

I want a boat that will carry me and be fairly stable but I want a thrill I don't want to cruise, I want to get to a point where I can get out on the trapeze

I can now see not 1 boat fits for my requirements so this is what I'm going to do. Get a boat that can take me at 19st, fairly stable but needs to thrill

So I have noticed in my previous thread no one mentioned the Laser 3000, laser vago or a solo?now what's your thoughts about a RYA L2 with about 6 months experience on a lake but now going out on the sea on there own (in time when confident) got some crewing coming up, so which boat for me single hander?

Any RS? 600 maybe?


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 9:03am
Not the RS600......  unless you really want to spend a lot of time in the water rather than on it.

RS Vareo would be a good place to start.
I'm not sure the Solo will thrill you.

Any of the others is worth a try.

Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 9:34am
I have a friend who is not a racer, but a relatively competent sailor in a 'sea scout' kind of way.

I recommended he got a Vago - it's easy to maintain (you don't need to maintain it), he has a wire and spinnaker to play with if he's feeling confident and above all, it's the closest monohull I could find which fits the bill of good enough for one (in a sporty-ish kind of way) but suitable for taking out his wife and/or kid on for a pootle.

He hasn't looked back.... 

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 10:37am
Hi Kneewrecker,

I was hoping someone would say that as it looks a good boat and lots of fun. I do weigh 19st but have been out on a Laser 1 on a few occasions before and managed to sail ok, although a little wobbly at times, not saying that is a boat for me as it 100% is not but it was available at our club at the time to borrow/

So do you think that will be ok, I guess I could google its weight limit.

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 10:41am
Hi Pierre,

Ok the 600 was a punt so thanks for the advice, Im surprised about the Solo as I have seen a few racing around (all be it on a lake) and they looked quite quick and were on their side (which is a thrill for me) quite a bit and looked quite sturdy, but this was on a lake so not sure if the sea would be a different kettle of fish altogether.

I really do appreciate everyone's advice as it really helps novice's like me.

Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 11:08am
It's primarily a double-hander - and whilst you can't just assume that any double hander can work as a singlehander for a bigger guy (or girl), this one seems to be pretty damn versatile, stable and low worry factor compared to other more fragile options.

I think you will have a lot of fun - and it will give the space and time needed to establish what you (and your family) want from the sport.   There are definitely better 'dedicated' options if you want to race alone (Phantom) or if you want to cruise with your son (Wayfarer, or the RS Venture).  But neither of these are as versatile in the short term.

Vagos come with two different types of sails - a racing set which are bigger and more powerful and a training set, which are harder wearing and good for higher wind sailing in the future.  If you hunt around for a second hand boat it would be well worth holding out for one with both sets - sails from Laser are notoriously expensive, so do check out the wear and tear on these before handing over your cash.  

I wouldn't overly worry about a bit a drive to get the right boat either- in my experience it's always a decent chunk of time to get one and get it back home or to the club, so an extra hour or two on the motorway makes naff all difference.

Enjoy the experience - buying your first boat and then launching it can be pretty special :-)

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 12:17pm
One thing about the Vago - it does fall over when left tied up rather easily. A small problem, but one that can be annoying.

Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: ventus
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Rupert

One thing about the Vago - it does fall over when left tied up rather easily. A small problem, but one that can be annoying.

Think I've wandered into sailing anarchy by mistake.

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by ventus

Originally posted by Rupert

One thing about the Vago - it does fall over when left tied up rather easily. A small problem, but one that can be annoying.

Think I've wandered into sailing anarchy by mistake.

Nope, lost me.

Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: ventus
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 12:58pm
Lots of people on it moan about any boat that falls over when left unattended.

Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 1:00pm
it's a valid criticism..... I think any boat that doesn't give a 10 second grace period to run the trolley up needs to have this annoyance highlighted.  It's bad enough capsizing all the time, without starting off from the beach performing a capsize recovery.... in the shallows.

Posted By: ventus
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 1:06pm
Very true kw, but some of them think sunfish and lasers are tippy.

Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 1:19pm
haha.... it's all those over-sized toppers they sail in the mid-west, it's gives a disproportionate concept of stability.

Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 1:53pm
I understand now. I suppose it is no more tippy than lots of racing boats, but because it is made of plastic, one expects it to sit on the water like a Vision, or a supertanker. 

Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 2:17pm
Had a go in a Vago about a year ago and must say it was pleasantly surprise. Seemed quite spacious upfront, easy to handle and nice to sail. Bit of a thrill with the 'race' sails as well.
Boats in that comparison are probably RS Vision, Topper Magno and Topper Omega (though the Omega might be a bit big). They are kind of robust, suit all type boats. Think they are all roto moulded as well so for what they are, they are pretty robust......

Or a Topper Vibe

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 11:09am
Right ok a few weeks on, a few hours research, looking at weight of boats and watching a lot of YouTube videos here are my conclusions on what I think might suit me or not.

1. Phantom - nice single hander, a little flat on the water as I want a thrill too, but maybe a good starter but am worried about the thrill seeker in me.

2. Solo, pretty much the same as above

3. RS Vareo, good single hander, looks like it's a bit of a thrill seeker so a defo possible

4. Laser vago, double hander but can be sailed single handed, however all YouTube videos shows everyone sailing single handed out on the trapeze so don't think I'm ready for that but would love to get out on the trapeze double handed.

5. Topper Magno - seems like a good single and double hander, lots of room, will cruise, will thrill, quite lite, not sure about the trapeze situation with me being 19 - 20 stone

6. Topper Vibe - seems like a very similar boat to the Magno but a bit more racey and more options, again same issue with the trapeze

I think considering all the above and my original post of wanting a double handler which can be sailed and raced single handed with the trapeze if you want to use it rather than you have to use it my heavier weight I am leaning to the 2 toppers?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Also apart from Appoloduck where else is a good place to find secondhand boats?

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 11:33am
The Phantom is a big powerful boat. Its definitely by far the fastest boat on your list, and will easily beat the Vareo round the track.

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 12:12pm
And I've just noticed its one of the lightest, Jesus decisions decisions, anyone else????

Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 12:54pm
Well the thing is the last 3 on your list are rotomoulded thermoplastic boats.
This is a different form of construction, used primarily for entry level boats and ones for the less committed racer.
Its main advantages are:

- cheaper mass production
- very resilient to knocks and bumps

The main disadvantages are:-

- tends to be rather heavier, especially for larger boats
- not as stiff, which tends to mean the boat feels a bit less crisp to the experienced sailor

The Solo and the Phantom are full on race boats, and even though the Solo is a rather small and slowish boat of rather elderly design, modern foam sandwich (=glass fibre) ones are the fastest possible slowish elderly design if that makes any sense! Both have been in production for a good many years, which means that there are older cheaper and not as intrinsically fast boats about, including wood as well as plastic ones.

The Vareo is kinda between the two stools. Its not really a full on race boat, but its not entry level either.

Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 2:00pm
I think this can be narrowed down fairly easily. From what you say for me it would be simply between the phantom and the vareo. My experience of the vago singlehanded us that it's a lot of work for not much reward, it feels like you're constantly fighting it. I would imagine the other two rotos are the same just because you can sail them single handed doesn't mean you should. Also I would imagine without racing the solo isn't offering anything that a phantom can't do faster, lighter and without bashing your shins on the cb case.

The other thing to remember is that although your local club won't be racing, there's nothing to stop you taking the boat out on the travellers circuit. I know the phantom has a good scedule of events, not sure on the vareo.

Ultimately though I'd just try both boats (in a few wind strengths) and see what you think. Chances are one will just feel better than the other and your decision is made. The only other suggestion would be a d-one but I appreciate that they ain't cheap and may be a touch quick depending on the size of the water you sail on.

Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Jul 15 at 2:04pm
Compared to the others on your list, the Phantom is head and shoulders above for speed and pedigree-feeling.  By no means too stable as you seem to be supposing with "a little flat on the water as I want a thrill too".  You can lay it on one chine for a rest, but just try sailing it dead upright on all points of sailing - you'll have your work cut out!

-------------" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 26 Jul 15 at 3:00pm
Ok excellent thanks for all the advice.

So I have almost made my decision which is to go for a phantom, 1 thing I have found is that the early epoxy boats have issues with cracking on the top where you sit, so this worries me as I am 20St?

What is the year of the early epoxy ones?

The other boat that I have not ruled out is the RS Vareo, is this a bit stronger???

Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 26 Jul 15 at 10:57pm
Ok so after a lot of discussions etc I have decided on the phantom, I have read a lot about them and the different masts etc. so last question grp or epoxy, which is stronger? 

There are claims on the phantom website that early epoxy ones crack?

Posted By: fish n ships
Date Posted: 26 Jul 15 at 11:17pm
Anything after 1175 or so I believe had reinforced sidedecks, I'd check on the class association website. Also pretty much all the boats after this are epoxy which are much better than the grp ones that preceded then.

Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 27 Jul 15 at 5:01pm
Epoxy Phantoms started well before S/N 1175 - more like 1100

If you are just wanting to sail (rather than race) an earlier GRP would be ok (less stiff and heavier but much cheaper)

Don't think its a beginners boat - it can be a proper handful when its blowing. But great boats.

Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 27 Jul 15 at 5:10pm
I had a grp boat and would not recomend one for someone of your size.
They can be soft and if built down to weight fragile as mine was.
Great boat and will give you a buzz reaching against most boats.


Posted By: about a boat
Date Posted: 28 Jul 15 at 9:44am
I have a Phantom for sale if you want to have a go. Message me.

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