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Laser2

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12075
Printed Date: 17 May 22 at 6:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Laser2
Posted By: giwy1
Subject: Laser2
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 1:54pm
Hi All,

I have been sailing for about 6 months but only on a lake, I have now moved and my nearest club is on the sea so this is a new challenge for me. Also my old club use to hire out boats but this club doesn't so i am looking to buy my first boat. I would like the option to sail single handed and the option to take a friend or sibling out. However I am 19st and my son for instance is about 16st and 6ft 4, this is probably the most extreme if I went out with a crew.

I am looking at buying a Laser2 after doing a bit of research, I'm not wanting to race just have a good time on the water and cruise around a bit.

What are peoples views?
What other boats would be recommended?

I have read that the Laser2 turtles really easy and I know where my new club is it's a bit muddy, so if I am out on my own and the boat turtles what are the likelihoods of it getting stuck in the mud and if so what are the likelihood of me being able to free it and righting the boat and if all else fails what are my options.

I would always sail fairly close to the shoreline if I'm out on my own, until such times that I feel that I have the skills and confidence to go out further. The club is at the mouth of an estuary.

Any advise on any of the above would be really helpful.

Please keep in mind my size and lack of experience.



Replies:
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 2:47pm
Albacore would be a good bet.... for a singlehander, then really it's a finn or a Phantom.  

I'd saying 35 is stone in a Laser 2 is pushing it tbh....


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 3:11pm
As per kneewrecker's comments really. You might want to consider an Osprey as well.

Good luck with the mud.......


Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 3:22pm
When you say pushing it do you mean from a keeping the boat upright, balance, control etc or do you mean speed or lack of?


Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 3:24pm
Hi Pierre,

So the hole mud thing, seriously if you get stuck in the sea what do you do?


Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 3:38pm
Yes, as Kneewrecker and Pierre said.

As a pair you're way too heavy for the L2. The ideal weight would be about 18-23 stone for helm and crew. It also has a small cockpit, in light winds sitting in would be extremely uncomfortable I would imagine.

Me thinks you need two boats.


Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 3:53pm
OK, I think the Albacore would be a good bet but hard to find second hand ones and I don't want a wooden one.

So will keep looking or look at getting new in the future!!!, so what do people think about this, keeping in mind not spending too much whilst learning.

1. Buy the Laser2 and sail on my own until I get up to a competent level as they are cheap and quite readily available (there is one near me)

2. Once really in to the sport and confident to take people out buy an albacore or another boat depending which way things pan out.

So I guess really what my question is will the Laser2 be ok for just me out on my own at 19st and being new to dinghy sailing?

I will keep an eye out for The other 2 single handers that kneewrecker has advised but struggling finding them second hand too which are fairly local and cheap enough as a starting point.


Posted By: Buzz
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 4:02pm
Laser 2's are very cheap and easy to find. Sail it for a summer and then sell it for what you paid for it. You can always bolt a block of foam to the top of the mast to stop the boat inverting. It doesn't look very elegant but works. When you have finished with the boat unbolt the foam.


Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 4:13pm
To be honest, your much better off getting something that fits the bill in the first place. The L2 is a two hander and you would not get the best out of it single handed. Sure some have single handed the L2 on the wire and with spinnaker (see youtube) but this is not for the novice and the "Fun" weather margin for this is extremely narrow. 

The above suggestions look good. A Wayfarer might suit you for the 2 handed situation as well, it has a spinny.


Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 4:15pm
I think you'd find the Laser 2 relatively unforgiving... it's designed as a double hander, and having sailed them singlehanded in the past, the sheets are in the wrong place for ease of use.  (and they don't work under mainsail along)

 if you want a cheap second hand plastic boat, that you can sail primarily by your own, then the Phantom would be ok.  For a blast-about boat, then an RS Vareo might also be an option - you're too heavy to race it, but it will support 19 stone adequately for blatting about.

The only other option - a catamaran.  They really are the most versatile for taking passengers.  I'd look for a Dart 15 or Sprint 15 (same boat, different name)  They're also stupidly stable and very low draft.... so good for the mud.


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 5:37pm
I think a cats a good call, could go to a Dart 18. If you get in to it, a Hurricane 5.9 is an awful lot of fun for the buck.

-------------


Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 6:49pm
Ok, not been on a cat before but I'll keep in mind for the moment. So from the suggestions so far and looking at personal pluses like enough room between the boom and the boat, the best and there are a couple around would be the phantom. Looking at the pictures the only question I have is as I'm still new I want as little going on around me so a single sail is ideal, however what the heck are all those little skinny ropes for at the front :) I'm guessing they trim the sail so mainly used for racing so I guess most of the time I can ignore them as I just want to dart around for now.... Or are they for something else????


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by giwy1

what the heck are all those little skinny ropes for at the front :) I'm guessing they trim the sail so mainly used for racing so I guess most of the time I can ignore them as I just want to dart around for now.... Or are they for something else????


This is a common misconception for newbies and cruiser sailors. Those bits of string are not just for racing, they are standard sail adjustments to make your sailing experience easier. The quicker you learn how to effectively use them the more fun you will have and the easier your sailing will be. Their use applies to every boat ever made even very sedate boats. What often appears as lots of string is simply convinient systems to allow you to adjust the kicker, cunningham, and outhaul from either side of the boat. These sail controls exist or at least should exist in a basic fashion even on club gulls, wanderers and Wayfarers.
Welcome to the technical sport that is sailing.

As for boat, I'd say make your mind up what you want to do. There is no boat that will allow you to do everything you have asked for particularly well and due to the laws of physics, never will be. A Sprint 15 (formerly Dart 15) is probably the closest you'll get but at 95kg plus a sizeable crew you'll sink it.
If there is a chance that you might start racing, and really it's the best way to improve and enjoy the sport, then identify a popular class at your home club and buy into it, even if you fall outside the optimum weight. You can trade on up to a better suited or newer boat as you improve and you will have the help and assistance from your fellow class sailors at the club.


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 8:38pm
One more thing, what is wrong with crewing for somebody? Turn up at your new club and offer your services. You will learn far quicker sailing with someone experienced while also getting the lie of the land so to speak regarding best local class to sail. Try the forum or Facebook page for your club and put up an ad as a crew.


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 9:30pm
Wanderer (shortened Wayfarer) or Sport14, plenty of them around, cheap enough and should carry both of you whilst being manageable when on your own.
L2 might be OK on you own, yes a Phantom would be better but no cheap GRP Phantoms around.


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 06 Jul 15 at 9:32pm
L2 makes a great single hander at your weight, there are two versions the regatta and the fun. The fun has reefing points and a jib furler.This makes it suitable for cruising and ok for you by yourself. No room for anyone else though!

They do turtle very fast and float high. The designer said this is deliberate to stop them blowing away from the crew. So I use a big milk container tied to the main sail headboard on my regatta version.

Buy a nice GP14 instead if you can't find a fun version.





Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 07 Jul 15 at 8:06am
You can get the mast stuck in the mud when capsizing in a shallow lake. But it isn't stuck forever - you just have to wobble the boat a lot as you stand on the centreboard. The longer you sit there, the more the wind blows the boat in a circle around the mast, until the wind is helping you withdraw from the mud.

Once you bring the boat up, big lumps of mud will fall on your head from the mast tip. You can wash the mast at the mid-way point of capsize recovery (when mast is horizontal) by wobbling it in the water from your precarious perch on the centreboard.

Do some practice when there's a safety boat around, until you get the hang of it.


Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 07 Jul 15 at 1:25pm
Regarding mud... what Mags said is good theory and may even work ;-)... with the added bonus that it stinks and seems to go absolutely everywhere without any help whatsoever.
I really think a plastic phantom or Vareo would be the best place to start.


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 07 Jul 15 at 8:58pm
Lakes are nice if you have one, in strong tidal situations it all changes and you can't rely on the boat drifting around downwind and the mast comming free.
 
It's best if it does not turtle in the first place. Hence the non sexy ugly milk container when I'm by myself without any rescue cover (pretty well all the time)
 
 


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 08 Jul 15 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Peaky

I think a cats a good call, could go to a Dart 18. If you get in to it, a Hurricane 5.9 is an awful lot of fun for the buck.


After 6 months of sailing a Hurricane is not a sensible suggestion


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 08 Jul 15 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by piglet

Wanderer (shortened Wayfarer) or Sport14, plenty of them around, cheap enough and should carry both of you whilst being manageable when on your own.
L2 might be OK on you own, yes a Phantom would be better but no cheap GRP Phantoms around.


There are cheap GRP Phants around - just not the later epoxy ones


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 08 Jul 15 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by rich96

Originally posted by Peaky

I think a cats a good call, could go to a Dart 18. If you get in to it, a Hurricane 5.9 is an awful lot of fun for the buck.


After 6 months of sailing a Hurricane is not a sensible suggestion

That's why I said "if you get in to it"...

-------------


Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 08 Jul 15 at 12:46pm
Re Inversion.

Years ago I tried a 9 litre masthead float on a Laser 2.....it slowed the inversion down by about 4 seconds.

Unless you can get straight on the dagger board L2's invert. 


Posted By: giwy1
Date Posted: 08 Jul 15 at 6:09pm
So looking at everyone's responses, the L2 is a no no for me for various reasons.

I think in the long term it's probably best to have a single handler for just me when I want to go out on my own and double if I want to take anyone out.

So if I have got everything right:

Single Hander Choices:
RS Vareo
Phantom
Wanderer (shortened Wayfarer)
Sport14
GP14

Double hander
Albacore
Wayfarer

Correct?


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 10 Jul 15 at 6:53pm
For me the choice would depend on the slipway, Nice solid shallow easy to use, then go for a Wayfarer. They make good easy single handers. They sail well with the main only and the board half up as long as you only sheet to the transom corner.  Ours is on a mooring so no issue. Make sure it's got reef points as rolling the sail around the boom is a pain.  A set of sails from a 12ft dinghy works well for rough days.

If you have a rubbish slip then weight is critical so for a wayfarer you would have to invest in a really top notch trolley or if you can't afford one get an Albacore or GP with a small set of sails. The GP goes well with the main only as well and are cheap and easy to find. Get a GRP one.


Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 15 Jul 15 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by craiggo

Originally posted by giwy1

what the heck are all those little skinny ropes for at the front :) I'm guessing they trim the sail so mainly used for racing so I guess most of the time I can ignore them as I just want to dart around for now.... Or are they for something else????


This is a common misconception for newbies and cruiser sailors. Those bits of string are not just for racing, they are standard sail adjustments to make your sailing experience easier. The quicker you learn how to effectively use them the more fun you will have and the easier your sailing will be. Their use applies to every boat ever made even very sedate boats. What often appears as lots of string is simply convinient systems to allow you to adjust the kicker, cunningham, and outhaul from either side of the boat. These sail controls exist or at least should exist in a basic fashion even on club gulls, wanderers and Wayfarers.
Welcome to the technical sport that is sailing.

<snip>.

abso-flippin'-lutely - we all seen them  people who have a bad experiuenceo f dsailing because they  use blown out sails on a poorly set up rig ... 



Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 16 Jul 15 at 9:25am
Originally posted by zippyRN

- we all seen them  people who have a bad experiuenceo f dsailing because they  use blown out sails on a poorly set up rig ... 
 
Here Here, I had the opportunity to hop into a young lads Topper for the allcomers race at KSSA.
It had got breezy and the lad couldn't cope. Well the boat itself was sound but had original controls & a baggy sail. The best I could manage upwind was a close reach with the board 3/4 up, I was flat hiked & at no time could I get the tiller anywhere near centre line.
I talked to the Dad after but got the normal 'he's just starting out' thing, I'm not being critical because I have been there myself but the young lad is more likely to stick at it if his boat works.
So,
Yes, the skinny bits of string are an essential part but also they must work effectively.


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 16 Jul 15 at 12:29pm
I have this argument with the club instructors who dont seem to understand that having more purchase and things that work properly would make life easier for the trainees. When I bought 4 Toppers which were all race boats with multipurchase downhauls, kickers etc they promplty took them back to very basic and seem to have lost the purchases for when someone wants to race a boat.

-------------
Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 16 Jul 15 at 7:09pm
Gordon I agree with what you've said. I have similar issues:

Being able to change the rig shape the camber, twist and trim and understanding when and why is important and makes the whole thing more fun.

After years of sailing and vaguely guessing at the whys and wherefores I stumbled across Frank Bethwaites last book "Fast handling tchniques". This is the only book I have read so far that l can understand and that explains everything.

Maybe your instructors need to educate themselves?



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