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Submerged mooring of a Laser One

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11970
Printed Date: 01 Dec 20 at 12:05am
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Topic: Submerged mooring of a Laser One
Posted By: Keith Sharp
Subject: Submerged mooring of a Laser One
Date Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 11:19pm
No moorings or dry moorings readily available near my place in Malta so the Laser is hanging from the rafters.  Plan is to sink the hull in three meters of water as a mooring method.  Estimates please of the submerged displacement so I know how many rocks to collect. Maybe 400 kg?



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:29am
Don't understand. Do you mean sink the boat to use as a sinker to moor something else, or what? Surely you don't mean keep the boat underwater and refloat to use?


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 4:28am
<<keep the boat underwater and refloat to use>>  Yep. that's it. 


Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 5:33am
This should have been posted on April 1st


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 6:40am
Maybe, but in fact it was posted April 20 and so far no-one has said why it's crazy.  I'm expecting to enlarge the drain plug and let it fill with water as it sinks, so hull isn't crushed. That might also let me take photos of inside of hull: my understanding is that Lasers contain either lumps of foam or sealed plastic containers.  It's a Europe-made hull, about 1995. 


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:27am
More info and rethinking: 148255 UK-made Radial. No inspection port. A buoyancy Cubitainer (?) vaguely visible in photos through transom hole. Itís easy to believe that there are the apparently standard three 10-litre bags forward and three 20-litre bags aft. Current plan is to drill a big (maybe 2 inch) drain hole in transom and sink Laser hull for storage. Presumably, given the buoyancy bag information, 100 kg of limestone, specific gravity about 2.8, should sink the hull, maybe held in net secured through daggerboard slot. And presumably the Cubitainers will squash somewhat at depth three metres. Do people think this might work? Do you want to see a selfie of me sitting on the sinking hull winching it down towards the rock on the seabed?   :)


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:29am
Two questions spring to mind: 1) WHY? 2) How will you refloat it when you want to use it?

I've seen kids competing to see how many can fit on a Laser before it sinks & it looked like a lot more than 400Kg to me. That's not allowing for flooded buoyancy though.


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Nick
https://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/index.asp?selection=boat-register&subsel=14821" rel="nofollow - GBR 14821 Sijambo



Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:38am
1) Why?  Nowhere else to put it.  Malta regulations, crowded harbour, 10 year wait for legal mooring, no car.  Sinking the hull might be easier than convincing the authorities that I'm a genuine fourth-generation fisherman, especially still wearing my Toronto BlueJays shirt.

2) Interesting.  More than 450kg of kids?  That's maybe ten kids to sink it?  As you imply, fewer kids if I drill a big new drain hole in the transom.  Promising!  Draining it shouldn't be more than a few minutes dragging the hull slowly out of the water.  Better than the 600 metres pull uphill to my house on Sunday.






Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:42am
Oh, and idea would be to have boat/rock combo on sea bottom with maybe 10 kg negative buoyancy, so easily dragged to surface from shore. Then bag of rocks is hooked to hang just below surface to retrieve when returning from sailing.  If I remember to put in the big bung.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:45am
Sinking it is a very bad idea. You will never get all the water out of it and. over time, the layout will abosrb water making it a lot heavier.

That and the hull will have backup buoyancy in it to prevent sinking if the boat gets holed.


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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:02am
sharp thinking...



Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:03am
I concur. The materials aren't intended to be permanently immersed and the boat will get very heavy. I daren't think what sailing it with all the marine growth on would be like!
I'd also worry about other people's anchors and the like.
Full marks for lateral thinking, but I don't think it will be practical.

If the problem is getting the boat easily from garage to water, can it be solved another way? Maybe a bicycle powered launching trolley with bike wheels for low friction, or will hills make that impractical?


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:05am
Sinking is a bad idea if there are good mooring or storage alternatives available.  Given the situation here in the crowded bit of Malta, buying a replacement used Laser every couple of years might be an acceptable plan.


Posted By: Vronny
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:33am
Just think of the marine life that will get into the hull through the enlarged bung hole! Are there eels in Malta harbour?



Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:50am
<<Are there eels in Malta harbour?>> Not after I've trapped them all in my Laser and had them for dinner.LOL


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 12:17pm
Of all the crazy things I have read on here over the years, this is up there at the top!!!!

Having worked in a yacht marina during my student days and having jetted my fair share of hulls, I'd just say that this laser hull will be a total wreck in no time. Bit of warm water, shallow enough to still get light - it will be a breeding ground for sea life in no time

Never mind the anchoring hazard for other boats. Your harbour master will no doubt have a view on this........


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 12:28pm
An advantage might be that the Maltese authorities, if they notice at all, will decide that nobody will want to copy this method. So they might not bother stopping me, even if it's illegal which is not clear.  No anchor-dragging etc hazards in the location I'm aiming for.  

For anyone who knows the Sliema, Malta, situation, do you have other ideas to avoid the 10 year wait for a mooring or a spot on land? The setup here is to give available moorings first to traditional fishermen, who might or might not genuinely use their windfall.  And then the moorings remaining are rented out at a low price, hence the non-availability for ten years. 

It seems to make sense to use the advantage that a Laser is small, can be replaced second-hand at moderate cost, and  spends half its time capsized anyway so was designed with submarines party in mind!




Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 12:45pm
Mental... The boat will be a wreck, where are you going to store the sails, foils, ropes etc whilst you are doing this!? What if a passing boat hits your laser whilst it is underwater. You might not care about the damage to your already ruined laser but they might care about the damage to their £100k sailing yacht's keel. A laser is not designed to sit on a mooring on the water. You should keep it on a launching trolley in the same place which you plan to keep your sails and spars. It isn't exactly a heavy boat to move unless you do opt for filling it with water, then it will be really heavy, you will quickly get sick of emptying it! 


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 12:56pm
Spars etc at home 300 metres away.  No other boats where I'll sink it: pillars keep them away.  I launch-trolley pulled the 65 kg hull up the one-in-ten slope to my house on Sunday but very tough and my doctor wouldn't approve (I used to sail Lasers as a young man in 1973....). Use of an electric land tug would help but road traffic gets blocked.  So.....back to drilling holes in the transom.


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 1:00pm
Well good luck to you. Can you share a few photos once you have got the new system in place?


Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 1:08pm
Leaving it strapped to a car roof rack would be almost as mad.


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 2:11pm
Just let us know how it survives. In time it could turn into a small reef!
You could charge people to view through a glass bottomed version so a tourist attraction as well.


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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 2:24pm
This is my new favourite thread and leads to lateral thinking fun. I'm going to start with an easy one: are there any rules around outhauls (but I'm building up to more exciting ideas involving some kind of dynamically positioned floating anchor)?


Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 2:30pm
Nonononono. Better idea. Can you get someone to make you a kind of shaped giant balloon that fits through the big hole that you've drilled in the back of the boat. That way when you want to raise it you pump air into the balloon which in turn expels the water from the hull. It also gives you sealed positive buoyancy for sailing and avoids the need to keep a flock of children (of no doubt uncertain weight depending on the amount of ice cream consumed that day) at hand for the sinking process.


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by scullyman

This is my new favourite thread and leads to lateral thinking fun. I'm going to start with an easy one: are there any rules around outhauls (but I'm building up to more exciting ideas involving some kind of dynamically positioned floating anchor)?

If on a Laser read the class rules they are very prescriptive.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 2:50pm
Thanks, Paul - aware of the class rules, I was more thinking a long rope attached to a pulley on the shore like you'd use for a tender! Mind you, if you've got a suggestion as to how you could use the outhaul on the end of your boom to sink the boat I'd love to hear it. :-)


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:18pm
so a haul out rather than an outhaul then ;)

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Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:24pm
If you asked the harbour master for a haul out he'd charge you for lifting your boat out for the day so you could scrub it... unless he was of less reasonable mind in which case he'd give you a profane suggestion.

If you asked him for an outhaul, he'd provide you with a rope and a block and tackle on shore. This is today's interesting fact for you.


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:26pm
Suspend it from an anchored dirigible at c.1500ft. You could sell rides in the Laser(r) Gondola!


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Nick
https://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/index.asp?selection=boat-register&subsel=14821" rel="nofollow - GBR 14821 Sijambo



Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:28pm
Wasn't sure when I first read this that you were serious, however it seem like you are.
If your house is only 300m away, though up a hill and presumably you have room to store it. Why not get a little quadbike/trike or the like to tow it up there.
It could also double up as a little run around.

Or convert a tractor mower ???? Just a thought ;-)


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:30pm
Could we re title this 101 things to do with a dead laser.

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 3:54pm
Hmm... love the Laser gondola idea but then I got all excited by the prospect of a tricked out garden tractor. This might be the winner for the time being.


Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 4:13pm
Or get a Moth and you can carry it back up hill. No problem at 10kg or so.

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Steve B
RS300 411
D-Zero 11

https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page
D-Zero page


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 5:31pm
<<Why not get a little quadbike/trike or the like to tow it up there.>>  That is indeed a practical possibility.  But for the against-the-traffic trip home, the necessary home-made   'road closed for five minutes' sign at the top of the hill is likely to cause unhappiness........

 


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 5:39pm
Is there a local rugby team, or similar? Could you persuade the coach that pulling a Laser up the hill, or even carrying it, would be good training for them? You could offer them the use of your Laser for the purpose for free, if they agreed to coordinate their training with your sailing needs!

Boring solution, buy a road base and trail it from your house to the slipway.


-------------
Peter
Ex Cont 707
Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 5:46pm
<<Boring solution, buy a road base and trail it from your house to the slipway>>   Tough without having a car. That's one of the bad habits I gave up on moving to Malta.


Posted By: djdhi
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 6:35pm
As your thinking laterally anyway, downgrade to a Topper.  you can get trollies where the boat sits on its edge, a bit like a B and Q  trolley for carrying long lengths of timber. A Topper hull only weighs 43 kg and if the top edge of the trolley was at waist height you would find it much easier to push.  Before you say Toppers are kid's stuff look at some of the all age opens in a breeze.  You will no doubt see grown men of 90 kg and more enjoying themselves and picking up some prizes.
djdhi


Posted By: Wee Man
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 7:07pm
Could you store it against a wall with the pointy end up?

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Nacra Infusion F18


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 7:16pm
<<Could you store it against a wall with the pointy end up?>>

Possibly, but in this area it's a bit like looking for a spot to do that within 200 metres of Big Ben or the Coit Tower or wherever you are from.  


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 7:22pm
And there's steep slopes away from the sea everywhere, and it's the manual dragging of a 65kg hull uphill that is worth avoiding.


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 7:24pm
Windsurfing is popular in Malta. Take up windsurfing.


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 7:40pm
Well Windsurfing is a young person's sport.  Maybe Laser sailing is too, so here's a selfie of me walking my Laser instead: some steep uphills following the one-way system  for 500 metres to put it in its home hanging from the rafters:




Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:01pm
Get someone to come and pick you up after sailing, you sit in the boot hanging on to the boat. It's what my dad did to me when I was younger ;)


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:11pm
Get LP to mould you one in ferrocrete, worked for the Mulberrys.

you are truly barking


Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:05pm
speak with Trevor Millar at SailCoach on Malta. He may let you store it with his fleet of Lasers, right on the water, for a small fee......


Posted By: JohnW
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Keith Sharp

... some steep uphills following the one-way system  for 500 metres to put it in its home hanging from the rafters:



How about getting a powered jockey wheel to do the work?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mr-Shifta-2-Caravan-Mover-/171758610364/†" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mr-Shifta-2-Caravan-Mover-/171758610364/ 



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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 10:49pm
The caravan movers are v low speed I think which might be a bit tedious, but having earlier suggested a bicycle and a low friction trailer, I now wonder about an electric assisted bicycle. You might be able to hire one to try out whether its practical.


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 11:08pm
<<speak with Trevor Millar at SailCoach on Malta. He may let you store it with his fleet of Lasers, right on the water, for a small fee......>>

Thanks. A fee is fine, though SailCoach some distance from here at Balluta.

<<electric assisted bicycle.>> I rode one in Toronto for a while and it was anaemic on hills.  Even Toronto hills!  Maybe some heavy duty tricycle versions would have enough power to drag a Laser up the one-in-tens.  




Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 12:00am
So to sum up:

There seems to be a reason why not for every land storage option.

You have a feasible plan for storing a Laser underwater.

But if you do the marine environment will ensure that it is not a Laser for very long.  (Think weeks not months!)

So something completely different is the answer.




Posted By: scullyman
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 8:18am
I propose a hybrid theory:

Find yourself a "small" electric motor e.g. golf cart sized. Add a rotating wheel to the front of your Laser trolley. Affix the electric motor. Add a straight handlebar at the top. Sit on the bow of your boat and drive it up the hill... if the wind was behind you you could even leave your sail up for some assisted power.

It's not that different from sea legs RIBs tbh.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 9:28am
go kite surfing.... put the kite in a backpack and carry your board.  It ways less than a 4 pack of beer.


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 12:32pm
I would say that carrying the mast and sail will be harder than dragging the whole lot on the trolley. I still maintain that your initial plan of keeping a laser on a mooring (which you cannot because of the fishermen) was equally problematic because the laser will fall over, get damaged, and be worthless in no time at all. Keeping it under the water merely speeds up this process! 


Posted By: chrisg
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 1:26pm
buy a house at the bottom of the hill??


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 2:13pm
If you're going to tow it, get the painter around your waist, not over your shoulder. Make a nice padded belt.


Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 2:29pm
OK I've thought about this, and it could be done and in a way the laser remains useful, but there's a degree of expense involved and guaranteed access to the sea floor.

Two containers required, one permanently sunk with an internal winch, the other Laser sized water proof fits inside, so is garaged in the other, the key is winching the sealed one containing the laser and suitably weighted, down to the bottom and inside the bottom mounted container, so it could be done.

Or, ditch the trolley (it's heavy) get a set of wheels for the rear and a bike mount for the front and cycle it back and forth on a mountain bike with suitable low gearing.

Rather than rafters, wall mounted derricks on your house.


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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/pads-and-helmets" rel="nofollow - Ridiculously priced bike helmets clearing out


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 6:14pm
Today I was talking with various people about storing the Laser hull close to the water. Oddly, the McDonalds balcony here today in the image is a Laser-free zone. Notice all the mooring buoys, some of which are the fruits of ten-year waits. People say that most are illegal buoys and that when Spinola Bay becomes boat-to-boat walkable soon then the territorial disputes get vocal. Any other submersed Lasers are not yet returning sonar pings.


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 6:45pm
Do any of the apartments around the water have underground garaging you could hire?

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Nick
https://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/index.asp?selection=boat-register&subsel=14821" rel="nofollow - GBR 14821 Sijambo



Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 7:41pm
A slipway from one of those balconies looks doable Approve


Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 22 Apr 15 at 8:12pm
Get friendly with an Oligarch and hang your Laser off the back of his gin palace.

Perhaps one of those inflatable cats might be a more transportable alternative to a Laser.


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 9:00am
Seems difficult to get a nearby clearly legal mooring or shore storage at any price in less than the famous 10 years. Hence, events this morning so far:



The various options got narrowed down and the 54 mm hole showed the buoyancy containers which I'll leave inside even though it means more rocks needed



So now the plan is to use the new through-hull hole, with new cockpit 26mm expanding bung air-hole to get the Laser out of my ceiling





and legally scuttled on the http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20140501/REALTORS06/140509983" rel="nofollow - Queen's Bottom or whatever is the correct term in the Republic of Malta. Note the prehistoric http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/" rel="nofollow - cart ruts in the photo. The Laser will surface if the sea level falls again, much to the surprise of the fish living in the hull.






Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 10:42am
Looking forward to seeing the photo in a few weeks of a few shards of smashed glassfibre that used to be a Laser still anchored to the sea bed

There must be easier ways of destroying your boat ? Shame really

Surely an April fool ?


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 10:58am
Jesus...What a cruel way to kill a Laser.


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 11:50am
Hi Keith
I think it would help if you managed to have a flatter surface for the hull to sit on, so it may be worth clearing a few of the larger rocks if you can.
Would it be worth inverting the hull before you sink it?
I admire your endeavours to trying to keep sailing your dinghy under very difficult circumstances.
Ignore the comments about killing a laser, its was designed as a beach boat not some piece of art!

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 11:53am
This is almost GRF abroad!!

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 1:09pm
Please don't forget to send some pictures of it once it's been on it's new "mooring" for a few months!

-------------
Peter
Ex Cont 707
Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

 
Ignore the comments about killing a laser, its was designed as a beach boat not some piece of art!

Nail on the head....A Beach Boat, not an underwater ornament.  


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 3:37pm
Bull riding, volcano boarding and rocks-and-net Laser sinking are sports only for us retired folk: pension plans should encourage these cost-saving activities. Eventually the Laser bubbled and sank, with about a cockpit-full of bottom rocks and a similar amount of rocks in nets. Peppering the buoyancy Cubitainers with small-bore fire and setup of a quicker and safer rocks attachment mechanism are potential improvements.


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 3:59pm
Flying Tipping by J R Hartley


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 4:15pm
So Keith whats the plan leave it a week and see what she come back up like?

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 5:00pm
Fair play....you actually did it.


Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 5:29pm
This is a mind-boggling thread.

Surely if you puncture those plastic bottles, you will never get the water out of them thereafter.

I still don't get it though; what's the plan with the spars and foils? Are you still carting those up and down the hill - 'cos that sounds as much a trudge as the boat on a trolley. Plenty of potential comedy value though, carrying the spars about, wiping out cars and pedestrians at will.


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Null

Fair play....you actually did it.


Did anyone see you? I would have felt too embarrassed.


Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by MerlinMags

Originally posted by Null

Fair play....you actually did it.


Did anyone see you? I would have felt too embarrassed.


I have been reliably informed Wink  that once you get past a certain age you don't actually worry too much about things like that.


Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 9:23pm
Hurrah, I take this as concrete proof that I am still "young".


Posted By: Xpletive
Date Posted: 23 Apr 15 at 9:55pm
Nice to know Care in the Community is alive & well in Malta. Please call your Laser "The Black Pearl", just for me.


Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 24 Apr 15 at 9:43am
Just looking at the state of the underside of marker bouys tells me that sailing this boat isn't going to be pleasant, especially if you have an elongated break.

Don't forget to pack the jet washer when you next go sailing!


Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Apr 15 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Null

Fair play....you actually did it.

I concur.... the maddest thing on this forum since the V-Twin and when Luca lost the plot.


Posted By: Keith Sharp
Date Posted: 24 Apr 15 at 7:51pm
Raised the hull today, dragging it very publically slowly onto land with a pulley system as it drained. Because of language problems a tourist couldn't be discouraged from helping - he grabbed the rope to help me pull it and looked stunned when he found the weight to be 500 kg rather than 65 kg. But his wife was greatly entertained! The refloating took over an hour and the hull got bashed about. All in all, sink-storing of a Laser is doable but impractical. Have a good weekend, everybody!



Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 Apr 15 at 8:49pm
Seems to me that you have up-cycled a Laser as a sub-surface water feature come reef.

One down just under 200000 to go!


Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 24 Apr 15 at 9:19pm
Put them all in one place and it would be some reef.


Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 25 Apr 15 at 12:32am
Originally posted by The Moo

Put them all in one place and it would be some reef.
Hey and just as I was wondering what a waste it was chain sawing up Toppers, when we should be filling them with concrete, flipping them upside down and securing them just below the low watermark.



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http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/pads-and-helmets" rel="nofollow - Ridiculously priced bike helmets clearing out



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