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Scoring

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11647
Printed Date: 22 Oct 20 at 1:18am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Scoring
Posted By: Andy K
Subject: Scoring
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 11:29am
Looking at the Frampton Enterprise Open Meeting, 7th Sept.
The skipper with 4,2,1,1 beat the skipper with 2,2,1,1.
Don't you think that the count-back rules need a bit of a looking at?



Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 12:29pm
I depends on how they apply them. 

I seem to recall that you can modify how you do countback from the 'standard' most 1sts, most 2nds, Last race both boats sailed.

Looks like here they are saying the last race will be used as the first tie break point before most 1sts, mosts 3nds, etc...

The guy who was 2nd wrote the report so cannot have been too upset over it.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 1:41pm
Rule 90.3 and Appendix A of the RRS.

Standard is as above (most 1sts, most 2nds as initial tie break then the last race).

I would imagine the SIs stated the scoring was to use last race as the tie break.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 1:56pm
This was scored as per standard.  The 4th was an excluded score so isn't included in the countback.
 
They tied on results
They had the same scores on countback (1,1,2)
The boat which won the last race won.
 


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Ian29937

This was scored as per standard.  The 4th was an excluded score so isn't included in the countback.
 
They tied on results
They had the same scores on countback (1,1,2)
The boat which won the last race won.
 

You are correct indeed correct!


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by jeffers

I seem to recall that you can modify how you do countback from the 'standard' most 1sts, most 2nds, Last race both boats sailed.

The problem here (such as it is) is not with the tie-breaker rules in Appendix A but with the 'number of races required for a drop' setting in the SI.

But 4 completed races for a drop in a 6 or 7 race series is pretty conventional.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 4:33pm
Yep. the current fashion in scoring systems is that an excluded race is completely excluded and isn't used as a tiebreak. You can make arguments both ways. In this case it made for a more exciting last race I think.


Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 5:38pm
Why do we have discards in the first place? - My understanding was that it allowed for exceptional circumstances not to spoil someones event as a DNF/DNS can have a significant effect on a series result
e.g. If someone has an unexpected boat breakage or a delay in arriving at an event due to breakdown, accident etc or for longer series, personal reasons for not attending a number of races.
If you accept that these are reasonable exclusions, it seems logical that everyone should be able to discard the same number of races and that these should not be included in any count backs etc
Ian


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 9:04pm
Some events don't have discards - the Dragon Gold Cup never has, for instance.

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Gordon


Posted By: Andy K
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 8:57am
As I understand it, a competition should be won by the skipper with the best scores.
I don't really care about the current SI's
The guy with the best scores didn't win.
OK, all skippers knew the regs.regarding the race, but someone, somewhere, in time gone past, has tweaked these regs. And now it is as though it they set in stone.
They are not, and I still think that the wrong skipper won!!!!


Posted By: Ian29937
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 9:41am

But imagine the 4th was as a result of an inexperienced sailor taking him out at the start resulting in a capsize.  Try as hard as he could, he only managed to recover to 4th despite sailing much faster than anyone else in the fleet.  Is it fair that the overall result should be impacted by this race result in any way?  Isnít it fairer that sailors are able to completely discard a defined number of results to ensure that chance events donít decide which sailor wins?



Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 5:17pm
So long as everyone knows the system before racing kicks off, I'm not sure it matters that much. You could probably find more results for those 2 helms where the opposite has happened, and that would apply to most of us, I'd think. I know I got lucky at the Lightning Nats being able to discard a 13th!

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 16 Sep 14 at 5:33pm
Like Rupert, I can't see anything to get all twisted up about. 

I would happily accept the situation whichever party's place I found myself in.




Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 18 Sep 14 at 6:47am
Originally posted by Ian29937

But imagine the 4th was as a result of an inexperienced sailor taking him out at the start resulting in a capsize.  Try as hard as he could, he only managed to recover to 4th despite sailing much faster than anyone else in the fleet.  Is it fair that the overall result should be impacted by this race result in any way?  Isnít it fairer that sailors are able to completely discard a defined number of results to ensure that chance events donít decide which sailor wins?


Indeed. But not just the inexperienced. Stuff happens.

At a laser open earlier this year, I was looking good for first or second at the first mark when the boat the leeward capsizes to windward and lays his mast across my foredeck. By the time we sort things out, we are pretty much last - 20 plus places lost. Without a discard, happenings like that will result in protests intended only to obtain redress and average points. Meantime, everyone is hanging about waiting for the prize-giving, or they just go home, neither of which is desirable.


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http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here



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