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R Speculation

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11158
Printed Date: 29 Mar 20 at 12:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: R Speculation
Posted By: iGRF
Subject: R Speculation
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:45am
So what is it?

Originally posted by davidyacht

Two strange looking RS single handlers sailing at Salcombe this weekend, with RS support RIBs, camper vans and cameras, Dacron rigs looked positively prehistoric compared with Solo 3DL's. I often wonder how inconvenient the Solo is to RS, since I am sure if you we're designing a single hander to go with the RS200 or RS400 it would not be dissimilar to a Solo...


Have RS finally realised their target market works for a living and is getting older, so wants a boat it can get back into if it falls over?

I just hope they haven't made the mistake of not realising the target market also needs to be able to lift it onto a trailer without a crane.

So c'mon, who knows what, time to spill, what are forums for and we know how much they love the viral world..

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Replies:
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:52am
I reckon its an epoxy foam sandwich singlehander carbon mast about half the weight of a go slow and lets hope a lot better ergonomically!



Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:55am
James will know, hes probably already bought one!

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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:55am
Prehistoric Dacron rigs? Maybe it's a "Big Q'ba" like Nessa was calling for the other day. A Pico equivalent for adults.

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-_
Al


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:57am
No it isnt. Suspect the sails are down to a cost/capabiliy comprmise like all things, and dacron isnt bad esp on unstayed boats with overly bendy rigs. 


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

I reckon its an epoxy foam sandwich singlehander carbon mast about half the weight of a go slow and lets hope a lot better ergonomically!


That would be far too sensible, hell how many of those would they sell?

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:59am
Only problem with dacron is 14% import duty..

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Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:01am
Not as many as laser, but still plenty enough to be viable.
Can't believe its taken anyone so long


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:01am
Have RS decided that development via forum is a bad idea after the 100?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:02am
A carbon unstayed rig (NB IF done well) still will be far less prehistoric than untapered aluminium whatever rag you put on it.


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:02am
A dacron Punk, Dan?

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Rupert

Have RS decided that development via forum is a bad idea after the 100?



Could you imagine the piss taking if they announced they wanted to compete with the Solo? Never mind the request for ahem 'chintz' in the colour pallet from certain quarters..

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Peaky

A dacron Punk, Dan?


What a shame it isn't the punk..


Or is it?

And if not why not?

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Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:10am
It most certainly isn't a dacron punk I am afraid.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:15am
So what should it be called, can't be RS Torch, maybe RS Flashlamp? (with an eye on the US market).



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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:16am
RS bonfire

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:24am
could the dacron sails also just be development ones?

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-_
Al


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:29am
Maybe, but they're not dumb enough to do the project X and break something publically that may be construed as being not great if it isn't justifiable/reasoned.


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:38am

Dacron Sails likely to be a 'camouflage' for the development hull and foils.  My suspicion is on some rotomoulded rental type single hander, judging by their latest cat launch.  Did you notice any wings on it?



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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:43am
Originally posted by bferry

<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 8pt; mso-ansi-: EN" lang=EN>Dacron Sails likely to be a 'camouflage' for the development hull and foils. My suspicion is on some rotomoulded rental type single hander, judging by their latest cat launch. Did you notice any wings on it?</SPAN>



This is my fear, more dross for inoculating vacationers against ever sailing again.


And another reason they wouldn't want it discussed in this environment.

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Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:44am
A 4.5k carbon masted Laser/Solo beater has to be the aim. I can't imagine the production boat will have a dacron sail though.

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Posted By: cad99uk
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:45am
A dacron Nemesis, Peaky?


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:47am
Originally posted by cad99uk

A dacron Nemesis, Peaky?

No dacron planned on my nemesis!

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Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:50am
I'd be impressed / suprised / worried if an epoxy foam sandwich boat with carbon spars could be done for 4.5k. 


Posted By: cad99uk
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Peaky

   
No dacron planned on my nemesis!


But was it a pre-production Nemesis?


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:52am
I never mentioned an epoxy foam sandwich hull Dan, just a laser beater with a carbon mast.

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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:03am
Does raise an interesting point: is almost certainly impossible to test a new design of dinghy in this country in secret.

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-_
Al


Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:04am
Originally posted by cad99uk

Originally posted by Peaky

   
No dacron planned on my nemesis!


But was it a pre-production Nemesis?

No, nothing to do with me.

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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Peaky

I never mentioned an epoxy foam sandwich hull Dan, just a laser beater with a carbon mast.


Sounds like it's more than just Russco who needs to spill..

I missed what a Nemesis might have been or was going to be or even still yet might be..

See Tech Astronomy ...

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Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:08am
A ha. Well I venture that this boat is epoxy foam sandwich so is unlikely to come in at 4.5k unless some serious exploitation is taking place, or is more heavily invested in than any dinghy project ever



Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:13am
It's a bit like a lightweight vago with a modernised Europe rig on it. Looks good!


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http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk
Andy P
foiling Int Moth GBR3467
Freedom 21 Codling


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:13am
Originally posted by iGRF



Could you imagine the piss taking if they announced they wanted to compete with the Solo? Never mind the request for ahem 'chintz' in the colour pallet from certain quarters..
 
 
The only way they will capture any of the Solo market is if they start building Solos.
 


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:16am
Is that the one that's been in development near you for a year or so now then Andy?


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:17am
Pics or it didn't happen Smile

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:21am
They certainly look pretty....

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/photos/salcombeyawl/yandy100595.jpg" rel="nofollow - PIC LINK


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:54am
perhaps they're going to put the 300 back into production, decks in pink, with a dacron sail, and heavy discount for pond-sailors in the midlands LOL


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

It's a bit like a lightweight vago with a modernised Europe rig on it. Looks good!


A lightweight Vago?

That intimates tupperware, and a centreboard case, how lightweight could it be?

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Posted By: Peaky
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

A ha. Well I venture that this boat is epoxy foam sandwich so is unlikely to come in at 4.5k unless some serious exploitation is taking place, or is more heavily invested in than any dinghy project ever


Just to be clear, I know nothing at all about this RS boat and it isn't connected to my Nemesis project. If it is epoxy foam and all carbon spars, then yes it will need serious exploitation of Sri Lankan sweat shops to come in at 4.5k!

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Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:20pm
My wife has just had a new f.r.p British moth with a full carbon rig and that came in at six grand and I thought that was quite good value. It would take volume( and a sweat shop ) to get that price anywhere near four and a half grand.



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Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:26pm
now the arse has fallen or is falling out of the Laser world, could that be the target market


Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:35pm
Its not the production version of the V twin is it GRF?

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Gordon
Lossc


Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 12:48pm
Guys, sorry i know i should but i am not going to post any pics or details of the boat.  As much as i love RS baiting, its not fair on them and at the end of the day i dont have the ime to argue with anyone over a forum nowadays.  So you will all have to be patient and wait for the official press release to come about or wait for RS to announce something.

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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:08pm
If they're doing something in a public place they cannot get upset with people posting pictures and details of what they've seen unless they want to look ridiculous. Given they're reasonable people, I really doubt they'd get upset. As it is, you're protecting the commerical sensitivities of a company you have no stake in and that has no secrecy agreement with you.

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-_
Al


Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So what is it?

Originally posted by davidyacht

Two strange looking RS single handlers sailing at Salcombe this weekend, with RS support RIBs, camper vans and cameras, Dacron rigs looked positively prehistoric compared with Solo 3DL's.  I often wonder how inconvenient the Solo is to RS, since I am sure if you we're designing a single hander to go with the RS200 or RS400 it would not be dissimilar to a Solo...


Have RS finally realised their target market works for a living and is getting older, so wants a boat it can get back into if it falls over?

I just hope they haven't made the mistake of not realising the target market also needs to be able to lift it onto a trailer without a crane.

So c'mon, who knows what, time to spill, what are forums for and we know how much they love the viral world..
I would think if you were designing a singlehander to ine up with the RS200 and 400, it would still look a lot like a Vareo?
 
Does the world really need another una rig singlehander?
The only USP available would seem to be going for cheaper.


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:14pm
Still no modern epoxy foam sandwich unstayed singlehander for average sized chaps on the market - yet. Pretty much every other market segment catered for but the biggest one.
The vareo ain't nice, and the worlds attendance and general slowdown on the RS100 would attest to the fact that spinnakered singlehanders aren't the emperors new clothes.


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

The vareo ain't nice,
Easy now chap!

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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:25pm
In my opinion. I can't profess to being normal. Sorry. No offence.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:34pm
I like the Vareo, but if going for a non-spinnakered boat for the 10-14 stone market, I'd not start with it as a design brief. Thing is, whilst almost all the boats in that market segment are old designs, many of which have been updated, what does a new boat have to add? It isn't a market concerned with absolute speed, certainly not at the expense of ease of handling, but I can't see it gaining traction if beaten round the course by the curent market leader. So, if faster than the crowd, it still has to be as easy to sail. So, to make a boat faster without making it harder, you need to add length, mainly - so making a 12 foot boat to go up against the Solo, Streaker, Lightning, Byte etc is going to be a problem. So, maybe by making it 13 feet but keeping the sail area similar, you both gain WL length and have the chance to make sweeter lines. Combine that with a light but stable hull and a nice, easy to use but efficient rig, and maybe, just maybe, there is a market for it. Any longer than that, and you are into the Laser/Supernova/Blaze market, and you are then looking at a whole new ballgame.

Of course, if it was a 13 foot Rotomould singlehander, maybe with tweaked construction to make it lighter or stiffer, then maybe we would see the rise of the 1st adult roto raceboat? After all, Tera and Feva sailors are grown up, now, and not all want to go to the Olympics...


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:38pm
maybe this is the 'big pico' training centres have been begging for.  If so, I want to know NOW before I buy the next batch of boats!

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the same, but different...



Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Still no modern epoxy foam sandwich unstayed singlehander for average sized chaps on the market - yet. Pretty much every other market segment catered for but the biggest one.
The vareo ain't nice, and the worlds attendance and general slowdown on the RS100 would attest to the fact that spinnakered singlehanders aren't the emperors new clothes.

Wouldn't get too hung up on hull construction, I think the L*ser/Phant/Blaze/OK 'space' has some room in it, for a well thought-through product.

I don't think a kite is needed, why compete with the boats they already have?


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Have RS decided that development via forum is a bad idea after the 100?

I'm not surprised ... Look how it has turned out. All the main RS 100 fanboys have all sold up and moved on ...


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Rupert

  Of course, if it was a 13 foot Rotomould singlehander, maybe with tweaked construction to make it lighter or stiffer, then maybe we would see the rise of the 1st adult roto raceboat? After all, Tera and Feva sailors are grown up, now, and not all want to go to the Olympics...
 
The Topper Topaz provided that sort of idea and is a fun boat to sail, also being suitable for beach resorts.  I know some people still think of it as a youth/child boat, however its quite a blast with one or two adults in, depending on the rig used.  With the Topaz, the stiffness was and is a major problem with the rotomoulding process.  I was quite surprised to see the hull of my mate's Topaz take the formthe slings on his launching trailer.  A boat attacking a similar market but with a stiffer hull would probably bode well, especially in the rental/club scene. 
 


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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 2:01pm
As I've said many times, imho the only way you will produce a faster yet easily sailed singlehander for lighter helms is to make an elongated, maybe 14-15 foot scow moth.  Dead stable but with large sail-carrying ability.  Plenty of sailing interest with heeled and upright modes to choose between according to conditions, plus some fun submarining!

But it won't be one of those.


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Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 3:56pm
Topaz (in single hander form) is the same size as a Pico/Q'ba, especially with the roller furling mainsail.

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-_
Al


Posted By: Steve411
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by getafix

perhaps they're going to put the 300 back into production, decks in pink, with a dacron sail, and heavy discount for pond-sailors in the midlands LOL
 
300 never went out of production.

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Steve B
RS300 411
D-Zero 11

https://www.facebook.com/groups/55859303803" rel="nofollow - RS300 page
D-Zero page


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

Still no modern epoxy foam sandwich unstayed singlehander for average sized chaps on the market - yet. Pretty much every other market segment catered for but the biggest one.The vareo ain't nice, and the worlds attendance and general slowdown on the RS100 would attest to the fact that spinnakered singlehanders aren't the emperors new clothes.



Unless you consider the Supernova rehash, wasn't that epoxy foam s'wich, if it wasn't it should have been, I think in it's new incarnation it's an under rated boat..

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Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:34pm
Have ISAF recognized the Torch yet? Out of interest.
With the issues with the Laser/Torch, there is potentially a huge vacuum in the mid weight single hander market. 
Shame the Rooster 8.1 didn't take off with a carbon pole.

Maybe someone will come up with a 'Goldy Locks' dinghy, not too hard, not too difficult, not too fast not too slow and so on


Posted By: JohnJack
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:38pm
Would personally like to see a single hand dinghy with a one string raking rig.
It's not that complicated and you could make it suit a huge wind/weight range as it can be de-powered more effectively.



Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:47pm
I dunno, 6 pages and we're no nearer the answer than we were page 1, other than Andys suggestion of a Vago with a Europe rig...

Come on someone, spill the beans, I don't want to have to ring them up...

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Posted By: Dougal
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by JohnJack

Would personally like to see a single hand dinghy with a one string raking rig.
It's not that complicated and you could make it suit a huge wind/weight range as it can be de-powered more effectively.


Solution and Phantom both have this, and it works very well on both.





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What could possibly go wrong?


Posted By: rodney
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I dunno, 6 pages and we're no nearer the answer than we were page 1, other than Andys suggestion of a Vago with a Europe rig...

Come on someone, spill the beans, I don't want to have to ring them up...


The question is, are there any beans to spill? Does anyone know? Do RS know?   

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Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk
[EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk


Posted By: Riki @ RS
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 5:22pm
Hi All

Of the number of different projects currently being investigated for viability by RS Sailing (which could be aimed for different markets or countries than the UK), one of these was in the water last weekend in Salcombe.

At this stage we're not ready to talk about the detail of the project because many of the defining facets of the boat are undecided and subject to change. Additionally we need to work full through this process to decide when and if to go ahead. 

We'll release broad details of the concept for you all to digest in due course, but specifics are very transient at this point so best not dwell too much on any snippets coming through.

No more detail at this stage I'm afraid!


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Riki Hooker
Sales Director, RS Sailing
www.rssailing.com


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 6:02pm
Fair enough. You'll of course not be able to stop any photos being taken. Secret tsting's difficult if you do it at a major sailing location!

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-_
Al


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 6:09pm


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the same, but different...



Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 6:16pm
ah, see, cunning, no RS logo

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-_
Al


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Riki @ RS

Hi All
Of the number of different projects currently being investigated for viability by RS Sailing (which could be aimed for different markets or countries than the UK), one of these was in the water last weekend in Salcombe.
At this stage we're not ready to talk about the detail of the project because many of the defining facets of the boat are undecided and subject to change. Additionally we need to work full through this process to decide when and if to go ahead.
We'll release broad details of the concept for you all to digest in due course, but specifics are very transient at this point so best not dwell too much on any snippets coming through.
No more detail at this stage I'm afraid!


Nah...maybe they haven't told him, c'mon, you can't come in here and rattle the bean can without spilling more than that.

What were those things on the water at Salcombe then?

We need photos now, before you make another blunder without the help of the 'hive mind'

Hmm what's to be done,maybe we'd better kidnap someone who knows family and threaten to send them back.

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Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by alstorer

Secret tsting's difficult if you do it at a major sailing location!

Looks like a deliberate tactic to create a bit of online gossip. Looks like it worked. 


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 8:56pm
I would suggest, that we calmly wait for it to appear, and, then either sl*g it off as a heap of junk, or congratulate them on getting it right. Car manufacturers test cars on the road in disguise to stop all the gossip, it's a bit harder with a boat. Good luck RS, let's hope it is the ideal boat we have been waiting for (Although, it will have to be a blinder, to see me swop from the Blaze!!)

Jon

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Blaze 711


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by Jon711

let's hope it is the ideal boat we have been waiting for (Although, it will have to be a blinder, to see me swop from the Blaze!!)
Jon

Let's hope so ... Do we agree what such a vessel would look like?


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by Jon711

I would suggest, that we calmly wait for it to appear, and, then either sl*g it off as a heap of junk, or congratulate them on getting it right.


Nah speculating is much more fun.



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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:22pm
Fotoboat must have some ... JM Taking pics of n12's and solos on same bit of water


Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by alstorer

Fair enough. You'll of course not be able to stop any photos being taken. Secret tsting's difficult if you do it at a major sailing location!


I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.
On the other hand if you wanted to start speculation and rumour then you'd have done exactly what RS did, then of course you tell everybody there is nothing to say yet and you might or might not be producing something new soon, and the speculation and chat, and their name/brand of course, gets more exposure.

Just my thoughts of course...




Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Roger



Originally posted by alstorer

Fair enough. You'll of course not be able to stop any photos being taken. Secret tsting's difficult if you do it at a major sailing location!
I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.On the other hand if you wanted to start speculation and rumour then you'd have done exactly what RS did, then of course you tell everybody there is nothing to say yet and you might or might not be producing something new soon, and the speculation and chat, and their name/brand of course, gets more exposure.Just my thoughts of course...


Cynical, but fair..

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Blaze 711


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by Roger


I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.

Good thinking, and so it was indeed probably not by chance a Solo open, as suggested by the original post.


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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Oct 13 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Roger



Originally posted by alstorer

Fair enough. You'll of course not be able to stop any photos being taken. Secret tsting's difficult if you do it at a major sailing location!
I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.On the other hand if you wanted to start speculation and rumour then you'd have done exactly what RS did, then of course you tell everybody there is nothing to say yet and you might or might not be producing something new soon, and the speculation and chat, and their name/brand of course, gets more exposure.Just my thoughts of course...
My reading of the situation exactly, and that riki coming on all coy. We need pictures davidyacht 'your task jim should you choose to accept it'

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Posted By: yellowwelly
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 2:18am
Sounds interesting enough... But not a lot to get our teeth into yet.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 8:25am
It is like the run up to Christmas, waiting for Santa!

Lets hope we don't get the Xmas morning pair of socks blues...


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: L192444
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 8:38am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by Roger


I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.

Good thinking, and so it was indeed probably not by chance a Solo open, as suggested by the original post.

Indeed, deliberate stunt by the looks of things. Plenty of sleepy small clubs in the uk if you really wanted to be discreet. 


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 8:38am
Well plastic or epoxy if it ends up targeting the Laser/Solo market I think I've got the name for it..

RaSer

mis play on the words Razor (cut the cost etc) and Racer with the obvious RS branding, they can pay me later for my marketing genius.

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Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 11:36am
From a friend.

"I was there.... Picked it up. Would suggest well under 40kgs weight, man with it claimed it was lighter. It looks like a modern laser. Very simple fit out. Carbon stick, dacron sail. Daggerboard. Never saw the foil but small slot so expect it was pretty high aspect. Rig looked a little odd. Hull had big chine which made it look like a 29er/49er clone. Reverse sheer line like a 300, but without such a domed foredeck. A singlehanded Vago?. Unclear what it was built from. Def not a rotomould. Gelcoat finish. and Keri was not there. It was a pretty major test - two boats + 5 or 6 people. I was impressed."

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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: boatbasher
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 12:19pm
I have seen some photos but as they are not mine to post so I won't ...

Looks quite long; probably 15ft; very high aspect rig with 3 full battens at the top and two soft battens ... sleeved sail like a windsurfer (camber inducers?) gnav set up on the kicker. Can't really tell from the photo angle but it may have a bow profile similar to the Ovi girls skiff (can't recall the name) and a completely open transom.


Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 12:34pm
A sleeved sail? If they want to beat the Laser then a major bug bear for Laser sailors is the sleeved sail meaning they have to step the mast with the sail attached. Surely if it wants to improve on the Laser it needs a sail that is hoisted in a track, that way people can leave the mast up and just hoist the sail just before launching....


Posted By: ex laser
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by boatbasher

I have seen some photos but as they are not mine to post so I won't ...

Looks quite long; probably 15ft; very high aspect rig with 3 full battens at the top and two soft battens ... sleeved sail like a windsurfer (camber inducers?) gnav set up on the kicker. Can't really tell from the photo angle but it may have a bow profile similar to the Ovi girls skiff (can't recall the name) and a completely open transom.



sounds very interesting, but doesnt sound relevent to puddle sailors or the average solo sailor.

hope i am wrongSmile


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Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by L192444

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by Roger


I doubt very much they were trying "secret testing" as you put it. RS chose to sail these boats at Salcombe over a weekend when over 30 Solos and several National 12s were attending an open meeting, if you wanted to keep something secret then you would have gone somewhere a little quieter.

Good thinking, and so it was indeed probably not by chance a Solo open, as suggested by the original post.

Indeed, deliberate stunt by the looks of things. Plenty of sleepy small clubs in the uk if you really wanted to be discreet. 

Why would you even need a club...?


Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by GybeFunny

A sleeved sail? If they want to beat the Laser then a major bug bear for Laser sailors is the sleeved sail...

Seriously? And for 40 years they've just been keeping it to themselves...?


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:05pm
Ha ha ha


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by boatbasher


Looks quite long; probably 15ft; very high aspect rig with 3 full battens at the top and two soft battens

So another s/hander for fatties most likely?  

A problem with the 100 was that the design started out suitable for lesser mortals, but by the time the large & expert people at RS had developed it, it had become a lot more of a handful than originally intended.  

They need to get more novices or at least 'improvers' involved in the testing if they want a popular club boat.  Car manufacturers don't tend to invite engineers or racing drivers to their salons when evaluating the market appeal of new products...


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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by sandgrounder

Originally posted by GybeFunny

A sleeved sail? If they want to beat the Laser then a major bug bear for Laser sailors is the sleeved sail...

Seriously? And for 40 years they've just been keeping it to themselves...?
 
No, the ladies in the fleet have never been shy when it comes to asking for a hand to put the rig up or down.
I don't think a sleeved sail with long battens is going to work well at some clubs where there isn't space to leave the boat on its side as the moths do, unless it's very quick and easy to unstep the mast.
 
But designing for 'mass appeal' is sometimes a mugs' game.
Better to have a smaller number of people really wanting a product than lots of people making do with it?


Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by sandgrounder

Originally posted by GybeFunny

A sleeved sail? If they want to beat the Laser then a major bug bear for Laser sailors is the sleeved sail...

Seriously? And for 40 years they've just been keeping it to themselves...?
 
No, the ladies in the fleet have never been shy when it comes to asking for a hand to put the rig up or down.
I don't think a sleeved sail with long battens is going to work well at some clubs where there isn't space to leave the boat on its side as the moths do, unless it's very quick and easy to unstep the mast.
 
But designing for 'mass appeal' is sometimes a mugs' game.
Better to have a smaller number of people really wanting a product than lots of people making do with it?

I would imagine a person unable to lift a 4kg unstayed carbon mast would probably struggle to sail the boat.


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:45pm
What? And miss out on a vast lazy market?!


Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by sandgrounder

I would imagine a person unable to lift a 4kg unstayed carbon mast would probably struggle to sail the boat.

Seriously? If it were just the weight that was the issue then you have a point, its the 7 square meters of cloth flapping round attached to it in a stiff breeze that causes the problems.....


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:48pm
4 kg mast plus windage from the sail on a breezy day, with the full length battens flicking from side to side, not flapping? Sounds hard work to me. Also, on a very light hull, the sail will blow the boat over.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:54pm
No it wouldnt


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:55pm
getting mast in boat is all technique (and being arsed) like all these things


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:56pm
Not sure I understand how full-length battens would work on a sleeved sail. Won't they just 'push' the sleeve around the mast? What would / could stop this happening?

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Nick
https://www.fireballsailing.org.uk/index.asp?selection=boat-register&subsel=14821" rel="nofollow - GBR 14821 Sijambo



Posted By: gbr940
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:58pm
jeez 10 pages and still not even a fuzzy photo to work with - spill the beans, it isn't a secret...car manufacturers test all the time and the happy snappers upload the photos

Wink




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RS100 GBR159


Posted By: sandgrounder
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by GybeFunny

 
...causes the problems.....

That's your experience then? I'm a small adult and it's not mine.



Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 2:02pm
Full length battens on a sleeved sail are commonplace on windyplanks. but you are correct, they can rotate around.
In almost any wind upwind unless using insanely stiff battens, the wind pressure in the sail pulls the batten back into a fill saily shape.
The "rotation" helps to calm the sail down when sheeted out, but is a bit undersireable for light air tacks and gybes, and in heavily loaded battens towards the head, where a nice camber inducer works a treat.


Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 2:03pm
Maybe nobody felt sufficiently moved to photograph it?
Or maybe a shadowy organisation confiscated media devices from onlookers.


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Oct 13 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

No it wouldnt


Was this an answer as to whether the boat would blow over?

If you have a battened sail that can't be dropped when the boat is tied to the shore, why won't it blow over? The Lasers do, my Lightning does if I don't take the sail down, as does the Phantom, if he leaves his up. This boat will weigh less, but the windage will be the same, if not more.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446



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