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K2; can a dinghy have a keel?

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11074
Printed Date: 29 Mar 24 at 3:53pm
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Topic: K2; can a dinghy have a keel?
Posted By: Do Different
Subject: K2; can a dinghy have a keel?
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 6:13pm
Sort of logical in some ways, given that it's probably a lot lighter and possibly faster than a standard Wayfarer but would you want one?

Without some jeopardy where's the fun?



Replies:
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 6:27pm
http://www.stowawayboats.co.uk/

I end up at a folding dinghy on google - but I assume I have missed a development from the K1?


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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 6:44pm
Laser made the Stratos with a keel so I would say yes...

And don't forget the Flying Fifteen......I believe they tend to be classed a dinghies rather than keelboats.....


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 7:48pm
http://www.k2sailing.net/" rel="nofollow - www.k2sailing.net

The keel on the K2 is the same weight - 65kg - as the K1,  so it is more of a self-righting dinghy than a true keelboat like an ff , wherein the keel weight is a fair proportion of the all-up weight.

Personally , I don't need the risk of not being able to self-rescue when I'm knackered after the Nth capsize on a windy day to enjoy my sailing.  I  you do, there's not much point ion sailing in less than a F5 is there?

At a quoted PN of 1030, the K2 will comfortably out-perform Wayfarers, L2k's, Visions etc.  In fact,  the only two-man hikers that will beat it will be Tasars and Merlins - not bad for something that's as easy to sail and pull up the beach as an L2k, without the worry of its turtling habit.


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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 8:45pm
I suspect that being only 1.3m wide and with the draft only 1.15, to be competive will involve hiking very, very hard.
Sailing weight of 155kg seems quite low given that 62kg of it is keel.
Wouldn't a carbon mast have been nice to avoid the aluminium counterbalancing the lead?

I sort of suspect that this will be quite hard work to sail in any wind where I'm likely to tip the 400 in?
Not sure who it's going to appeal to, but you could buy enough of them to go team racing for the price of an x-boat, which has to be good.


Posted By: Reuben T
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 10:40pm
whats the definition of a keel? Is the steel centreboard I once had in my firefly a keel? because a firefly is definitely a dinghy.

The dictionary definition is a main structural member, therefore the K1/2 don't technically have keels. However I don't think this definition has been updated recently and is a bit irrelevant for most designs of modern yacht for the past 20 years.


Posted By: Telltale
Date Posted: 10 Sep 13 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

I suspect that being only 1.3m wide and with the draft only 1.15, to be competive will involve hiking very, very hard.
Sailing weight of 155kg seems quite low given that 62kg of it is keel.
Wouldn't a carbon mast have been nice to avoid the aluminium counterbalancing the lead?


 
The K1 has a narrow beam as well and the hull was was designed to perform when heeled, hiking is not a major problem as at the point that you would normally have to hike hard, the keel kicks in to help.
The advantage of hiking is that you increase the available sail area.

The blurb on the K2 indicates it too likes to be sailed heeled so probably the same thinking going on.

In practice the K1 is quick up wind and isn't far behind  a Flying 15, performance wise the K1 loses out downwind, (no kite).

K2 has that option so it might be a bit quicker than one would think !


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 12:01am
Originally posted by RS400atC

I suspect that being only 1.3m wide and with the draft only 1.15, to be competive will involve hiking very, very hard

I thought I read 1.3m too, but site now says 1.62m beam.  Even so, the rig looks pretty large for a hiking boat of that beam, so your point may remain valid if the desire is to sail upright. Heeled at 20 degrees the projected area will be reduced somewhat, however, so maybe we must wait and see.

Surely this boat will appeal to anyone who currently sails a one-design two-man hiking dinghy, especially those who are fed up with capsizing.  The dinghy population is ageing, people are becoming less fit and able to climb on centreboards*, and the competition is becoming ever-more prone to turtling when capsized, as modern construction methods with one-piece deck/floor mouldings leading to the incorporation of excess buoyancy (c.f.  L2k's and the latest Wayfarers).

(* keen, fit, sail regularly in F.8 forumites excepted, of course)


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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 1:21pm
Looks nice.

It has been tried before a few times, the self righting dinghy, from the Wildfire to the Orion SRD, and none have set the world on fire. However, Paul Handley draws a nice boat, and the K1 has done well, I think, so maybe this time is the one.


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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: gbr940
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 1:55pm
Sorry a Dinghy is a dinghy - a Keelboat is exactly that, NOT a dinghy!

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RS400 GBR1321


Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 2:33pm
would call it ballasted dinghy.

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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 3:12pm
A traditional sailing dinghy, such as the early 14's, invariably had a heavy metal centreplate for stability.  

I once sailed a Snipe - a quick one at that - with a bronze 'plate.  Pikies soon availed themselves of that...


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Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 11 Sep 13 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by gbr940

Sorry a Dinghy is a dinghy - a Keelboat is exactly that, NOT a dinghy!


I would class the Finn to have a retractable keel. Does Ben Ainslie know he's sailing a keelboat??


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Needs to sail more...


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