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Windward Mark fracas |
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Henmch
Newbie Joined: 26 Dec 15 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Topic: Windward Mark fracas Posted: 19 Jul 16 at 11:39am |
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Three boats ( solos) approaching the windward mark on port tack all level with each other and close to the starboard lay line
Boat A is nearest the mark 2 boat lengths away from the mark Boat B ( that's me) is half a boat length to leward Boat C is a further boat length to leward When we get to the starboard lay line boat C ( that's the most leward one!) suddenly tacks. He starts yelling starboard straight away and by the time he completes his tack and is pointing in the direction on starboard he is only half a boat length away from hitting me ( the middle boat) Lots of shouting on his part as he bears away to avoid me. My response was that under rule 15 I had no reason to anticipate his tack or do anything to respond until he was pointing in a starboard tack direction by which time it would have been difficult to do anything especially as there was a boat in close proximity to windward and that as I had taken avoiding action to miss him as he was infringing rule 15 he should do penalty turns, and if I had infringed the most windward boat A then I would be exonerated under 64a1 What do you all think?
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 16 at 12:34pm | |
Thoughts:
Boat C is outside the zone when she tacks then? Boats A and B are inside the zone? Are any of the boats overlapped? Lets think: My guess Before tacking C is ROW boat, and B has ROW over A. Assuming all overlapped: A is entitled to mark room from B and B entitled to Mark room from C Next: C tacks outside the zone. Rule 13 applies until she is on a close hauled course. She loses ROW. Next: C completes her tack. She gains ROW, rule 15, and has changed course, rule 16. She must initially give B room to keep clear. Case 15 in the case book is a similar situation in that the outside boat cannot tack for the mark if in doing so she breaks a rule.
Thought: Shouting for right of way when you don't in fact have right of way is potentially a Rule 2 issue (Case 47). It would be rather harsh to invoke it in this situation though. Edited by JimC - 19 Jul 16 at 12:35pm |
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 16 at 3:31pm | |
Edited by Brass - 14 Aug 16 at 9:03am |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 16 at 4:17pm | |
I read it slightly differently: that C hailed before reaching a close hauled course. That aside I concur with Brass, C, however unwillingly, did initially give B room to keep clear as required by RRS15 and did not break the rule.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 16 at 4:38pm | |
Without seeing it, and hearing both sides, it is pretty difficult to come to a conclusion. Sounds like C could compete her tack, but how much room is needed for B to react? Loads in a J class, not much in a Topper.
Answer, if you are B, close down enough on C to ensure he doesn't have enough room to tack, but keeps you clear, as he is RoW. This may even give you enough room and boat speed to tack on to Starboard and call on A, legally. |
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Fatboi
Posting king Joined: 09 Aug 16 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 189 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Aug 16 at 11:19am | |
When we get to the starboard lay line boat C ( that's the most leward one!) suddenly tacks. He starts yelling starboard straight away and by the time he completes his tack and is pointing in the direction on starboard he is only half a boat length away from hitting me ( the middle boat) Lots of shouting on his part as he bears away to avoid me. No matter what boat. C hasnt given you enough room to keep clear here. C had to give room coming into the mark to the other 2 boats, when he tacked 1/2 a boat length is not enough room to keep clear. He is in the wrong. Classic case of being too aggressive and not thinking bigger picture as well.
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Aug 16 at 12:11pm | |
Rupert is right.
There isn't nearly enough evidence to say that C broke rule 15. And the generalisation that half a boat length is not giving room is absolutely wrong. It may have been that when C reached her close hauled course, she was pointing aft of midships on B, going slower, so that B would have passed clear ahead and kept clear without either boat taking any action. In any case, C bore away and avoided contact: C, at worst, gave room to keep clear as required by rule 15. No rule broken.
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Fatboi
Posting king Joined: 09 Aug 16 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 189 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Aug 16 at 1:49pm | |
If before the tack they are 1 boat length away from each other and IF C was pointing at B AFTER COMPLETING their tack, etc. B cant keep clear. no matter what. In real life and practice this is not possible. If B tacked, his boat would slow and his transom would swing out, both things would make C have to alter course. If B carries on he gets hit - therefore meaning C didn't give B enough room to keep clear.
In this case you remove the mark from the equation it is irrelevant. Also as B would hit A if he tacked (1/2 a BL between them..), so that protects B further. You are right in the fact there was no incident, as C bore away. However his shouting and trying to make B spin suggests either he thought B broke the rules (Which he didn't) or that he was unfairly trying to gain an advantage by knowing them and manipulating them to his favour. Technically a rule 2 offence, but no-one would ever get pinged for that... |
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