New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Proper Course
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Proper Course
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Presuming Ed View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Feb 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Proper Course
    Posted: 15 Nov 15 at 11:59am
On a run
Position 1. 

Blue is clear ahead, RoW. Yellow is clear astern. 
Yellow must keep clear (RRS 12). 
Blue must give yellow room to keep clear when she changes course (RRS 16.1). (*)
(Both should avoid contact - RRS 14). 

Position 2. 
Blue is overlapped to windward of Yellow. 
Blue, as a windward boat, must keep clear of Yellow (RRS 11). 
Yellow has acquired RoW by becoming overlapped to leeward of blue. She must therefore initially give Blue room to keep clear. (RRS15)
When yellow changes course, she must give blue room to keep clear (RRS16.1). (*)
Yellow has become overlapped to leeward of blue within 2 of her hull lengths. She should therefore not  sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of blue. 
(Both boats should avoid contact). 

Proper course is defined as "Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal."

*( No course changes in this scenario to bring 16.1 into action). 



On a reach 

All the same points as above apply. So again, yellow should not sail higher than her proper course while she's overlapped with blue (unless she sails astern). 

Note, however, that Yellow's proper course in this scenario does not include luffing as a result of blue's wind shadow (the other boat referred to in the rule (17)). 








Edited by Presuming Ed - 15 Nov 15 at 12:03pm
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 15 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by Brass

There's that word again.

Why may leeward not luff change course towards the wind to respond to a windshift, or even if she reasonably decides that she is not sailing a hot enough angle?

Luff? What's wrong with luff? It's a clearly defined verb (OED "Steer (a yacht) nearer the wind") that occurs 3 times in the RRS, 109 times in the case book, a further 9 times in the supplement to the cae book,11 times in the current Q&A booklet, 112 times in the TR call book, 6 more times in the current TR supplement, 5 times in current TR Q&As, 80 times in the MR call book, 9 times in the current MR supplement, once (in the title/abstract) of the only current MR Q&A, and three times in the blind match racing rules

In what way is "changed course towards the wind" better than "luffed", a clearly understood, long standing piece of sailing terminology?

What's wrong with it is that, in its 'nautical use' demonstrated by numerous posters in rules threads, the verb 'to luff' has a multiplicity of meanings with various qualifications, such as a change of course:
  • abruptly, intended to cause a windward boat to break rule 11;
  • that causes a windward boat to respond;
  • above a boat's proper course;
  • above a boat's close hauled course.
Notwithstanding your content analysis of various sources, I would point out that the racing rules applicable to fleet racing only use the word 'luff' as a noun meaning a part of a sail.

I remain convinced that rules discussions would be better off without using the term.
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 15 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by rich96

So even though Boat B is coming from astern and sailing above the heading for the mark its Boat A's responsibility to keep clear ?


Exactly so. There is no "overtaking boat" concept in the rules.
A windward boat must nearly always let a leeward boat sail where it wants. The main limitation is that if the leeward boat comes from behind then she may not sail above a proper course.  

Further, right of way rules operate independently of rule 17.  As long as there was room for W to keep clear, whether or not L broke rule 17 does not affect whether W kept clear, and L, if she broke rule 17, cannot be said to have compelled W to break rule 11 as a consequence of L breaking rule 17, so W cannot be exonerated for breaking rule 11 under rule 64.1( a ).
Back to Top
NickM View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 May 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 328 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 15 at 10:45pm
DIV]
On a reach the proper course for almost all boats is a straight line to the next mark.
[/QUOTE]

On windy reaches, even in a una rig single hander, you may have to head up in the lulls so as to be able to bear off to avoid being overpowered in the gusts.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 15 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Quagers


On a reach the proper course for almost all boats is a straight line to the next mark.

Definitely not true. I can assure that the boat that gets the gust first will usually get to the next mark first. this will involve changing course to meet it and then changing course once they are in it.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy