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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: trapezing technique
    Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 11:26am
agreed- keep trap lines clean and for trapping, and keep jib sheets forward, connected and out the way of your feet and legs.

This is a helm issue... if s/he's come from a less powerful boat, maybe where healing is 'okay' and they've never played the main properly before, this will be a big skill for them to learn.  Having crewed for people stepping into a 420 for the first time after Oppies, I can tell you not everyone finds it easy to play the main.

Have patience, feedback as you'll feel it first.  Failing that, take the mainsheet from the boom yourself and play it yourself from the wire so the helm can focus on the telltales and the waves to keep the boat driving.  I know it's probably against 'class rules', but I doubt anyone will protest you if you're still both learning.
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 11:30am
I agree that continuous jib sheets are best, much less trouble, but I think that it is essential that they are just the right length, most of the SMOD boats have way too long ropes especially jib sheets. When they are right there is much less to tangle up and you dont have to back up a load of rope when sorting out the lazy sheet prior to a manouvere. Another crew whinge related to SMODs is jib cleat height, it is often wrong, that results in normally it being it impossible to uncleat from flat out on the wire, you should sort them out with shims to get it just right.
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 11:42am
Originally posted by JimC

!! Obviously your mileage varies,

Clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have said it LOL

To the OP: try it and see, if you don't like it  don't do it.

http://www.int505.org/old_site/trapeze.htm
(see technique refinements and what to do with the jib sheet)

Crewing to win by Andy Hemmings covers trapezing in depth and gives pointers on crew/helm communication. 


Edited by transient - 23 Oct 12 at 2:41pm
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 2:40pm
No body at the RS500 worlds last year( 64 boats),  had their jib sheets tied to the trapeze handles( there arent handles just disks). I thought all that business went out in the early80's ( the yanks used to do it in Fireballs and 505s). Also the idea of teaching kids to sail a 500 with the crew taking the mainsheet which is not allowed, sounds wrong- teach them to do it right, from day one, they will pick it up, and soon be blowing you away by how good they are at it- kids learn fast but teach them the right way in the first place so they dont have to unlearn a bad habit!
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 3:04pm
I agree O&B, but if it's a case of permanently getting t-bagged or sent around the forestay and all the helm needs is a few sails with just the rudder to get used to the speed boost, then the crew taking the sheet ain't no big drama.  We used to do all the time in 420s when we were making the transition from very slow boats into them.  

Soon enough the helm will want to take the sheet back again anyway, of course nowadays you could feasible consider the 500 as a training alternative to the 29er and the Olympic skiff pathway... in which case, the crew taking the sheet will actually be exactly what you say... teaching them the 'right' way first ;-)
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DaveT View Drop Down
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Posts: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DaveT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 5:58pm
I find continuous jib sheets pretty hateful things tbh, especially if your sailing boats were you might end up on a windy two sail reach. Likewise, sheets tied to trapeze handles are also the work of the devil. Stick with simple normal jib sheets for now, and learnt to trapeze comfortably flat like people have said.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6644 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 7:44pm
But the crew taking the mainsheer *is* right on a trapeze boat. Its just that a couple of classes prohibit it for some reason.
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1313 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 8:22pm
So the crew is nearly doing everything now so might as well just get a Musto/ 700 each and get more Boats on the water :-)
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simsy View Drop Down
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Posts: 158 		Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 12 at 9:39pm
Oatsandbeans has is spot on. There's no place for the crew taking the main on a 500. The boat's designed to be sailed a certain way, that should be the way it's sailed. There is a learning curve with every boat, some substantially more dramatic then others. There has been some fantastic advice given in regards to trapeze height (which I think in your case would really help), and it's most likely down to the helm not sailing the boat flat.

In relation to Pondmonkey's post, the RS500 is nothing like the 29er. As much as it would be great for an RS500 to be a transitional boat to a 29er, the only thing the boats have in common are they both an asymmetric with a trapeze. The 29er learning curve would be a slightly steeper.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 12 at 11:05am
Is a 5'3" crew ever likely to be heavy enough to sail a 500 seriously?  The 500 ended up pretty heavily canvassed for its size, despite the intentions at the concept stage.

Otherwise, yes it sounds like a question of trapezing lower while the helm works harder on the mainsheet to keep the boat flatter.
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