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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by iansmithofotley

Hi Graeme,

I sail at a generally windy venue and it often happens to me in my Phantom. 



Are you a bit light for it Ian, my chum who's not that much different skill wise to me, other than he has stuck with the Phantom for three years now where i tend to Boat hop a bit, boat tart that I am. Anyway he didn't stall once, didn't fall in either which he has been known to...


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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 4:59pm
My last highly infuriating stuck in irons situation was my sail in the RS100 prototype... until I remembered to lift the plate a bit and it bore off no issues with a bit of a boom grab and tiller waggle.

I have to say I agree with Rodney- if the boat lets you, use the hull as much as possible to do the tacking, but I can also sympathise with Craiggo- hull roll on an RS600 for example is just a no-goer; you need speed and determination tack one of those things.  I seem to recall the 300 didn't like too much roll either.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 5:02pm
I get it in the laser sometimes, just push the tiller one way, when its back on a close hauled course lean the boat with windward and pull the main in. The windward heel is essential to get the boat to bear away and get going again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote vscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 5:49pm
Lifting the daggerboard will also make it easier to get out of irons - doesn't matter that is is a daggerboard, not a centreboard, it still helps get past the stage where you think you are bearing away but the boat just stops and goes back.
Mk IV Osprey 1314 Think Again

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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 9:44pm
Hi Graeme,

I am 5' 9" and have been 15 stones (95 kgs), or just less, for the past twenty five years.  I have had my Phantom for eight years. I am an average club sailor and get hammered at open meetings as I just don't have the knowledge, skills and ability to do well.  I have found that the Phantom sailors at open meetings, which I have attended, vary greatly in weight from around 13 stones to over 18 stones. It seems that the 'good' sailors can do well at most weights in that range.  The Phantom is a great boat and has the flexibility to adjust the rig, or choose the sails, according to the sailor's height, weight and ability, in the prevailing conditions.  

I have sailed in a lot of very strong winds at my club, over the years, and unless it is blowing a hooligan, I can usually survive. When I say 'survive', I can usually get around the race course but probably with a poor result. The boat is a 'handful', for me, once it gets over F3 - F4 but I still love the boat. I just enjoy the sailing and the racing.  As a late starter into sailing (mid thirties), and now, at my age, I know that I am unlikely to ever get any better.  I get my satisfaction from the racing and knowing that I have done my best.  I also sail at a great place in a beautiful area, along with a lot of very good sailors.

The Phantom, like a Laser, is not the boat for everybody as some people like kites and trapezes and say that they get bored with simple una-rigged boats, particularly downwind.  

I have been the only Phantom at my club for the past eight years except for a short period when a young 'giant' had one but hardly ever sailed at the club.  He has now sold it and sails elsewhere as he is away at university. As 90% of racing at my club is handicap racing I do find that I have no other boats to compete with, on the water, unless there are some RS 200's racing or a Finn (we only have one of those too).  We have a decent Laser fleet but they get their own separate start.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

Ian
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tickler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 12 at 10:03am
As everyone knows I am a congenitally useless sailor. Because of this when I tack I expect to over tack and end up sheeted out and off the wind. I then hike (sort of) , sheet in and try to point in the right direction. I have sailed fully battened boats (Byte and Solo) and never get in irons. It may be slow but not as slow as reversing in irons.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondscum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 12 at 7:13pm
This is the worst thing about sailing the 8.1 on a fluky pond. It goes backwards Sooo fast in anything over F3 ... it's difficult to steer it one way or the other. Tacking through a bigger angle is part of the solution.

As you weren't tacking, sounds like you were headed. Something else that happens all the time on the pond, have spent far too much time with the boat on top of me sitting in the water waiting for the reverse shift (or the more likely windward capsize). It's why the technique of easing out and not taking the full lift/gust is good .. when you are headed you can sheet in more.

I am reminded of the description of a tiny bunker at St Andrews - just big enough for an angry man and his niblick. Not that I golf.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 12 at 7:45pm
Why are some boats worse than others for getting stuck in irons? I know battens can make a difference, but why would an 8.1 be worse than a Radial? I'm with James, I found the 100 prototype impossible to tack and got caught every time.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 12 at 8:11pm
I've always thought it was to do with the quality of the foils and the relation ship between the mast position and the centre/daggerboard being not that well placed. It is also to do with the size of the sail against the weight of the helm and the position of that weight, tbh I've been thinking about it a lot since i started this thread, wondering if I designed a different sail style it might be a bit more resilient.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 12 at 9:00pm
Its a real combination of things, position of cb relative to rocker line, relative to leech position.

Foil efficiency at low speed is clearly a factor, and full length battens clearly hold the leech up adding to the problem.

The reason that 100 and 700 are difficult is probably the position of the leech. Both boats run very long booms which overhang the stern slightly, that coupled to foils which less than perfect. The 600 was always difficult but mainly down to the full length battens. Interestingly enough Toppers can be pretty bad in big winds possible because they carry their rocker well forward.
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