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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 12 at 7:36pm
Rodney,

Graeme says that he got stuck in irons just trying to harden up around the bottom mark. He didn't want to tack!

But if you want to get through a tack in a boat prone to getting stuck in irons I would still not advocate too much leeward heel. Sure it will help drive the bow up into the wind, but any rudder movement when heeled will act like a brake as it tries to drag the transom down.
Your best bet is to just show the boat who is boss, pull some more cunningham on, and then go into the tack with the boat going as fast as you can. Uncleat the sheet but don't let any out. Push the tiller across and as the boat starts coming over on you leap to the other side easing about 6inches of sheet out as you get towards the far side. This should buy you a few seconds to get your lard out over the side and get the boat moving. Once the foils are attached then squeeze the main back on and pinch up to close hauled. If you feel the boat slowing too much as you move across the boat, let a bit more sheet run through your hand and keep the boat turning. You may end up well below close hauled but you should at least be moving and therefore able to then bring it up to close hauled.

In light airs I would advocate Rodneys method, in that it uses the hull shape to turn the boat and not the rudder, but in light winds you are unlikely to get stuck in irons coming out of the tack.
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rodney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 12 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by craiggo

It 
2. Keep the boat flat

That's what I disagree with when going into the tack!  I already assumed that a man with GRF's talent would have max Cunningham?

Anyway I respectfully bow to my betters  Smile




Edited by rodney - 16 Sep 12 at 7:57pm
Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited
http://www.suntouched.co.uk
[EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk
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Xpletive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Xpletive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 12 at 8:45pm
Why don't you just read the instructions, for Christ's sake!

Everyone knows EPS's come with instructions, like all beginners' boats.

If you had a bleeding steam iron and used it without putting bleedin' water in it, would you seriously expect anyone to bleedin' sympathise with you if it bleedin' fried?!!! What are you like....!
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 12 at 11:55pm
Well this sort of problem must vary from boat to boat, so I'm interested in everyone's view, as with everything I've learned over the years I've been of an inquisitive nature regarding those of a sitting down whilst they sail attitude, they all do it different, everyone has a different or slightly different view of how to do things.

I'm no longer quite as naive and inexperienced as I was a couple of years back and I am told that anything without a jib will go into irons at some point if certain rules aint followed, having said that you don't often see Lasers in Irons so maybe that assertion (the jib thing) aint true, however, my threshold which used to be about 12-14 kts, has raised some with this boat, which has certain idiosyncrasies in all winds when it comes to tacking, it does have a propensity for stalling and I still have yet to work out why, I think it's to do with the full batten rig and the fact the mast swivels which delays the detachment of the flow going into and re attachment coming out of a tack, which is a bit of a bind in very light winds and clearly doesn't help much when it's windy, something I'm sure a soft entry would help, not that it used to help me with the Blaze, but then that was a bigger sail and the boat was altogether different with other factors in play.

So I like to hear lots of views, then think about them all and apply them to my peculiar situation and so far this thread has helped thanks to all of you, Rodney, the Finn about which I know very little and don't profess to, but i do know it has no foil on that useless bit of metal you use to stop it going sideways, so you would have to tack the way you suggest because the Finn obviously uses it's under hull shape as a foil so I take your advice in that knowledge, the EPS is a very shallow drafted boat if you do anything other than sail it flat those wing things dig in with negative effect and it's a long way round from one wing at the front down to the back around the turret then back up the other side, I have developed a bad habit of cleating the main as i go through to set up the transfer it works great on the Alto and most of the other jibbed boats, but not so on the EPS, which would benefit imv with off boom sheeting and being rid of that turret and gubbins in the middle but I haven't gotten round to sorting a decent take off point for rear sheeting and tbh until today it hasn't really been that much of a problem, it has never gone into irons on the lake, it's flat water, it's the waves that screw you up on the sea, tacking into an uphill has a habit of sending you backwards..

Anyway it's an interesting subject, the Contender Boys have the problem a lot and they are way more experienced than I at single handing, so I'm not to phased by it.


Edited by G.R.F. - 17 Sep 12 at 12:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 7:22am
Happens to us all somethime getting stuck in irons. Thing I hate is the rule 13 thing. Sods
Law says you end up in irons, look up and see several boats coming back down the course at you. It's your own fault and you have to keep clearbut you have no steerage. Even if they dont hit you, or shout protest if you the take turns you might as well retire?
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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 7:58am
Irons happens to the best of us
Push (the Boom) Push (the Tiller) or Pull Pull is what I was taught and is what I still use today
 
Even in the 5oh it only takes 10 seconds to get going again
 
 
What to do to stop it?
- Tack with conviction and stop pussy footing around.
- Drop the kicker off (boat specific as some need it others don't)
 
 
When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 9:09am
Well something I can honestly say, it never happens in Sailboard racing, yet another example of why sailing sitting down is inherently wrong. Wink

Does it happen in Lasers? What about Coffins and Strokers? Is there a single single hander of which it can be said "it doesn't go into irons"? Those canoe things , they have a jib so I guess they are a bit more immune, then they must have other problems, imagine being in irons wondering which way to slide that seat thing... LOL
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 9:16am
Originally posted by r2d2

Thing I hate is the rule 13 thing. Sods
Law says you end up in irons, look up and see several boats coming back down the course at you. It's your own fault and you have to keep clearbut you have no steerage. Even if they dont hit you, or shout protest if you the take turns you might as well retire?

Yes, that very thing happened, my newly arrived friend in a Laser another ex windsurfer retiring to a more sedate activity <sic> had to tack away on starboard on the lay line because I had no steerage and was drifting back down, so had he hit me or protested we were discussing in the showers after as i was bemoaning my lot in life as usual, I'd have had to do turns as well, hardly a fair and reasonable decision for what could be described as a yacht in distress.. I countered with the view that he and everyone else should have stopped racing, and come to my aid, that would be the gentlemanly thing.
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 10:45am
Hi Graeme,

I sail at a generally windy venue and it often happens to me in my Phantom.  I, too, have found the best way to solve the problem is to let off some kicker, let out some mainsheet, raise some centreboard and then do the push/push - pull/pull thing.  Even then, when it's honking, it doesn't always work and I finish up doing a 'three point turn' like I had to do when I had a Cat.

So far as relates to windsurfing, as you are well aware, in a dinghy you can't use your feet to push and pull the boat in order to turn it, like you can on a board, and have to rely on other skills, the rudder and kinetics.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)





Edited by iansmithofotley - 17 Sep 12 at 10:46am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 12 at 4:48pm
Lasers with old, blown out sails and the original controls, where it was very difficult to get much cunningham on, were very prone to it. Didn't have any trouble recently in one with good controls and a newish sail. Waves really are the killer, though, so timing the tcks becomes very important.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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