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When to Gybe - Fast Asymmetric

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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 6:48pm

gybe?

two more boat lengths

OK

we going then?

nah lets go further

we're going to overstand

...

GYBE

(everything goes smoothly because I can cope with these things)

we've overstood

ah well

GET YOUR WEIGHT OUT NOW IF WE'RE GOING TO SAIL AT THAT ANGLE


Is roughly what happens. Or he'll go on that first query anyway, and we'll have to put in a couple of short gybes at the mark/gate in force nuclear.

-_
Al
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 6:54pm
I just bought a cheapy GPS tracker so it will be interesting to see how headed we get at speed - next time.

This is one of the downhill runs http://youtu.be/PN8uuL5o6vc.


Edited by ellistine - 11 Sep 12 at 6:58pm
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by alstorer

gybe?

two more boat lengths

OK

we going then?

nah lets go further

we're going to overstand

...

GYBE

(everything goes smoothly because I can cope with these things)

we've overstood

ah well

GET YOUR WEIGHT OUT NOW IF WE'RE GOING TO SAIL AT THAT ANGLE


Is roughly what happens. Or he'll go on that first query anyway, and we'll have to put in a couple of short gybes at the mark/gate in force nuclear.

Yep. That's about it.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by ellistine

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Strictly speaking I think your confusing your terminology, down wind you want to be on headers so you can bear off further and it is a lift that causes issues often being confused with a lull.
We are on headers. That's the trouble. We gybe for the mark, get a massive speed/apparent header and up having to 'fetch' the mark when I was expecting a good angle in. 

Rule of thumb, under stand especially if its breezy, gives you room to bear off more, same as it often pays to under stand upwind, lots of people over stand the mark, better to understand and short hitch than over lay, both directions..

One thing I've noticed, not many dinghy sailors know their lay lines 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rodney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by ellistine

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Strictly speaking I think your confusing your terminology, down wind you want to be on headers so you can bear off further and it is a lift that causes issues often being confused with a lull.
We are on headers. That's the trouble. We gybe for the mark, get a massive speed/apparent header and up having to 'fetch' the mark when I was expecting a good angle in. 

Rule of thumb, under stand especially if its breezy, gives you room to bear off more, same as it often pays to under stand upwind, lots of people over stand the mark, better to understand and short hitch than over lay, both directions..

One thing I've noticed, not many dinghy sailors know their lay lines 

+1
Rodney Cobb
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http://www.suntouched.co.uk
[EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jharvey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 8:18pm
I used to use the bouy being near the back of the mainsail as a good guide in the 800, Windier you need to gybe earlier etc. If you arent making the bouy and need to head up a bit more dumping the kicker completely takes the power out of the main and helps to stay high.Then slowing the boat down by rolling the front of kite and healing a bit gets the aparant wind back a bit and is probably quicker than sailing faster downwind and then reaching back up to the mark.
 
 
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 12 at 8:32pm
 
Originally posted by G.R.F.


One thing I've noticed, not many dinghy sailors know their lay lines
 

We've got a pretty good idea (obviously it is a dynamic thing changing with the gusts, we're just really good at avoiding ever getting on it...

-_
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 1:03am
GRF's comments were pretty spot on. 

Easily done in the 800, is to single wire if you're under the lay for leeward mark. A lot of the fleet do it having sailed the boat for a long time (little while back), and just seen it done at the Nats at HISC, you will not lose a lot pace. I never normally roll the kite (in opposition to the post above), to try and make a mark/buoy. Sounds very counter intuitive, but oversheeting the kite and flogging the main, helps considerably I found and dropping to your knots (if you're not already there!).

Having looked at a few of your videos on YouTube, you could possibly benefit from trapezing slightly higher, on the transition out; then lowering yourself once you're out. Of the downwind footage I saw, you would probably benefit from locking both crew and helm into your footstraps for stability of steering for helm and sheeting (confidence) for crew, even though it looked fairly flat.

I recommend a copy of Higher and Faster too if you can get your hands on a copy!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 12 at 9:01am
Originally posted by simsy

I recommend a copy of Higher and Faster too if you can get your hands on a copy!
Luckily I have it on DVD as had it been on VHS I would probably have worn it out by now! The 'Cockarocking' on the boat  is a bit of H&F homage. 

Interesting about going out on a higher trapeze setting. At the moment I'm finding the need to sit down and get the boat going again out of tacks before clipping on. The higher trapeze is then a bit awkward. I suppose the aim is not to sit down in the first place but just clip on and get out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 12 at 12:48am
You were probably just putting the boat through the gears. 
We came across  this affect when sailing the 5000. We noticed boats in same wind heading lower with the sails tighter and going faster, despite both boats twin trapezing. When we spoke to the richards brothers about it, the mention of downwind gears came up. Once you have born away on the gust, you head up sheet in looking for more apparent wind, as you sheet in you immediately have to bear away again, sails tighter and sailing lower and faster. In a heavy 5000 you had to do this 2 or three times to get max speed, but the difference was massive.
Gybing on the lay-line may be pushing you to go up the gears without realising it, so you end up sailing lower and faster than you had on previous gybe. Hence the early drop and the reach into the mark. Best that way than trying to soak low and slow at the end of the run. Try it next time you are out, never be satisfied with the apparent you have, look for more.

Andy
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