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What Boat?

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YachtyMike View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Aug 05 at 12:54pm

Hi,

I'm arelatively experienced sailor for my age, haveing sailed and raced manly on larger boats, 34 feet - 50+ but they have never been my own. I have recently gained enough capital to venture into the market myself and i'm looking o by my first keel boat/yacht. But my funds are limited to 20K, and i'm not sure whats best to go for.

Heres the difficult bit  I would like to fill all of these requirements;

Competitive IRC racing or Competitive One design, in around poole. (Preferably both..)

The ability to race in offshore series eg RORC (this is the problem as boats i love eg the new RS Elite are classed day boats and dont qualify..grr safety grr)

And even harder and not ness that important the poss of trailor sailing (I have a big Animal Truck thing)

Some of my friends have mentioned thing like beneteau etc... but i want to know from you what is the most exciting thing out there at the moment (note 20k is my max so if second hand 15k as would prob need new wardrobe etc..)

Oh and because some people seem to be obsessed with SB3's please dont say them, i like them too but need non day boat..

 

Cheers and hope to here from you soon!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yachty Mike
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Ollie Dewhurst View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ollie Dewhurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 05 at 6:56pm
I swear by dinghys but herd 1720's are fun
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 05 at 7:11pm

Ollie: you can't race 1720s offshore. There are various safety rules that prevent you.

Mike: I've done quite a bit of RORC racing on and off and unfortunately I just don't think that doing in on a 15-20K budget is realistic. The smallest/cheapest boats doing RORC racing would be something like Sigma/33s which I suspect you can pick up around 35K now (bit of a guess - haven't checked recently). People do JOG class 5 in cheaper boats: http://www.jog.org.uk/forsale.htm might give you an idea. You are going to be looking at something fairly old for that kind of money, rather than new and exciting.

I think for the kind of money you have, a dayboat is a better option. By the way, this is the same conclusion I came to myself when I owned a keelboat for a few seasons, although I'd enjoyed offshores on other people's boats a lot. Have you considered a 707? They are a sportsboat but with a lid, so you can sleep in them if you aren't looking for too much comfort. You'd easily get one within your budget and you could trail it off to Nationals, Cork Week etc.

 

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maxim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 05 at 10:52am
We're just looking at buying very similar boats to what you're after. With a buget of up to 20k, we've found a suprising ammount of decent boats. Some well kitted out sigma 33's for around 20k, some Beneteau first class 10's for a little less. Any spare money left over can go toward new sails, which instantly increases competitivness (sp??). One problem you have to be on the look out for is osmosis, as this will occur in older yachts, and cost 6k to sort out proffesionaly. However, if the boat's been on the hard regularly, this will be less likely. Just look at broker's websites near you, then go and see the boats. The brokers usually know lots about them and their history/ reason for sale etc...
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 05 at 11:43am

Did you look at the S/33s asking 20K? http://www.sigma33.com/english/forsale/Boatsforsale.htm suggests they are either keen sellers (good) or tatty boats (not so good). Not that I'd personally want one these days; I've got used to boats that accelerate in the gusts, rather than just heeling a bit more! But there is still an OD fleet in the Solent, and while they don't go offshore as ODs much anymore, they are good solid boats to race offshore. I did the '92 Fastnet in one, which had several periods of F7: no problems at all. I've also raced one in F9 in the Solent, which was entertaining and similarly problem-free.

I wouldn't touch a First Class 10. They were lightly built as low-cost raceboats and are now pretty old. You'd almost certainly be in for some big repair bills.   



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote *GM* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 05 at 12:31am
707's are a hoot to sail - we have a few at my club (used to have quite a few more) and I used to crew on one fairly regularly.  Stonking past 30-35 footers downwind in 30 plus knots doing nearly 15 knots was fairly exciting.  Highly recommended.  And they're available from a bit under 10K upwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 05 at 10:59am

I try not to do the "my class is obviously best and everyone should sail it" bit, but on the subject of 707s; I owned one for several seasons. They are great fun to sail in planing conditions and pretty robust and trouble-free. A background in dinghy helming would help, as they respond more like a dinghy than a bit yacht. Really their strength is in class racing but there isn't a class at Poole; nearest would be Hamble. It would be feasible to go there for, say, Winter Series, when berths are easily obtainable (not true in summer).

They weren't designed with IRC in mind and like all sportsboats, will struggle in IRC, especially in sub-planing breezes. This is what I wrote when I was putting the class website together a few years ago.

"It is instructive to consider the following. John Corby is arguably the most successful designer of one-off IRC boats in the last five years. The Corby 25 is a foot longer than the 707. It is nearly twice the displacement, with all the difference in the keel. It has an overlapping genoa. It rates 2% faster than a 707, which is exactly what you would expect from the greater waterline length i.e. it pays nothing in terms of rating for it's much greater stiffness. It costs nearly twice the price of a new 707. Clearly the design objectives for an optimised IRC boat, versus a fun-to-sail one-design with a price tag capable of building a large fleet, are not the same. That's not to say you cannot have success racing a 707 in IRC, but it is well to have realistic expectations."

Similar remarks would apply to other sportsboat classes like the 1720 or SB3; in fact more so since they are even further from the IRC "norm".

If I remember correctly, the base SSSN for a 707 is 9. This means no matter how much safety gear you pile on it, offshore races are out, since most SIs call for an adjusted SSSN of at least 20. Again, the same will be true of any sportsboat.

I still think that on Mike's budget, something like a 707 will give a lot more fun than an old knackered boat which is big enough to race offshore. But it depends on what you want and how much DIY repair work you are prepared to do.

 

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 05 at 10:25am

A sigma 33 can provide a great season's racing with some adventurous delivery jobs in between - the Scottish Week, Bangor, Cork, Dun Laoghaire, Cowes plus a Championship somewhere.

 

My only critiscism of the class is that they sail only windward-leewards at Championships. Last year at Cork - the "Europeans" were sailed during the ever more expensive Cork Week - we sailed 10 W-L's over 5 days. It seemed to me to be a great shame not to have at least one coastal race with a start and finish in the Narrows. After all, the essence of cruiser racing is surely that the navigator is the most important element in winning a race. I feel strongly that classes which make a lot of effort to ensure boats have a full cruising inverntory should have at least one race per event in which the navigator is the most important person on board.

Other problem with the Sigma 33 fleet - rule observance is not the best and they do have a tendancy to play dodgems at marks.

 

Gordon

 

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 05 at 11:14am

Originally posted by gordon

After all, the essence of cruiser racing is surely that the navigator is the most important element in winning a race.

I don't think that's been true since low-cost Decca came along - and I'm sometimes a navigator! The essence of offshore racing is keeping going 100% in the dark; everyone goes much the same speed in daylight but keeping those sail-changes happening at 2 in the morning is what sorts the winners from the rest.



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 05 at 11:53am

Decca thats oot the ark , tink you mean GPS , Decca was a sod comparably . Foot on pedal sure is best way to win .

 

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