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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 05 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by JimC7

The Mumm isn't expensive to buy just to run, and they are a lot harder to sail than a Sig 33 Elan or X332, but are by far the best boat to sail.


when they came out they were pretty dear and benedont built:

are many arouond 50k now UK£? How much to run p.a.?

Also ' no long term experience with the material' is a phrase I seem to remember coming up from insurers re. carbon masts. What with the masts on the 30?


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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 05 at 5:17pm
The Mumm 30s are now being built by Ovington and I think their quoting around £56,000 (exc VAT). Don't know too much more about the boat but Ovington boats are the guys to contact if you're interested in the boat.
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 05 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

The Mumm 30s are now being built by Ovington and I think their quoting around £56,000 (exc VAT). Don't know too much more about the boat but Ovington boats are the guys to contact if you're interested in the boat.


with sails you are in for 100k new, much the same as when beneteau did 'em

I was meaning 1) 2nd hand cost with good wardrobe to match

 2) what makes up the 'high  runnning costs'?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 05 at 7:29am

Originally posted by damp_freddie

(S/33s)Sleep 7? Not in any degree of comfort. as for 4 saloon berths , the pilots are for kids! 

You need to do some yoga then. I could in and out of them OK as a adult and I'm pretty average sized. They are actually the comfiest berths on the boat offshore once you are in.

I sailed and helmed them a lot at one time, including a Fastnet and a lot of Solent racing. They aren't as bad as you are making out, but they are a bit dated now and the standard of OD racing isn't what it used to be.

The comparison with a Mumm 30 is completely apples and oranges. A Mumm rates over 10% quicker in IRC and it's an overgrown sportsboat. S/33s were designed as offshore cruiser/racers.

Mumms are going to be expensive to run because 1. they need to be dry-sailed to be competive (because everyone else does) 2. they have a fairly big high-tech sail wardrobe and 3. they are hard to sail and if something goes wrong, things tend to break. I've only sailed one once but we managed to rip a kite big-time, and all the other crew on the boat were regulars and knew what they were doing even if i didn't.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 05 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd


You need to do some yoga then. I could in and out of them OK as a adult and I'm pretty average sized. They are actually the comfiest berths on the boat offshore once you are in.

I sailed and helmed them a lot at one time, including a Fastnet and a lot of Solent racing. They aren't as bad as you are making out, but they are a bit dated now and the standard of OD racing isn't what it used to be.

The comparison with a Mumm 30 is completely apples and oranges.



Perhaps  I'm being a little harsh on the sigma trenttrois but the Thomas designs 'either side' of her are better relative performance ie the sig 36 and the Impala- both much nicer to helm and crew on.

I'd say they will sleep 6 without much kit.

The only reason to discuss mumm 30  in the same conversation is the OD market is unfortunetly a bit fragmented now ( or am I mistaken relative to say 1996?)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 05 at 4:02am
Mumm 30 going for 30ish grand on the Mumm 30 web-site....... bargain! Got lots of sail too....
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 05 at 6:56am

It would cost you at least £10K a year to run a Mumm 30 the Solent though, if you want to be remotely competitive. I speak from experience (with a smaller OD keelboat).

Also, the Solent fleet seems to have died. For example, no class racing in the Hamble Winter Series any more, so the 3 remaining Mumm 30s have gone racing 40 footers in IRC1, where they will be stuffed on handicap.

So possibly not such a bargain.

Damp Freddie, I've slept 7 in a S/33 many times. You are just soft. If you can't fit the crew's kit in, they've brought too much kit.

Regarding the fragmented OD market, I think it has always been thus. The difference perhaps at the moment is that the vast majority of OD action in the Solent is in the sportsboat "White fleet". There isn't really an equivalent of the S/38s of ten years ago, while the X332s aren't strictly an OD. Some of this is to do with the move away from offshore to short inshore W/Ls. Why would you want to find 8 crew to race a big heavy boat around tiny W/L courses, when you could do it on a sportsboat with half the crew at a fraction of the cost? Hence you see people with a Swan for cruising and a sportsboat for racing, when 10 years ago they might have had an OD cruiser/racer.



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 05 at 7:04am
Isnt the Sigma 33 meant to accomidate 8 crew?
Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 05 at 11:55am
The OD class limit on S/33s is 7 and by a spooky coincidence there are also 7 berths. There will also be an IRC crew limit which might well be higher but I don't know the figure for that. IRC crew limits are often waived in SIs anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 05 at 11:24pm
No matter how many crew a sig 33 sleeps in comfort with a set of oilies each or not, it is out of budget for Mike here on the thread. A very tired one could be bought but forget it- you would  have more fun in the following

j80 , Bull 7000 or Projection 762  on  the sportier side

mustang 30 if you like it

laser 28 - far superior to any sigma or DTdesign and rates on IRC and PRHs- but then it is a bruce farr, Julian Bethwaite boat.

A well kitted out Impala- the best DT design for the money and nice to sail on everythting but the dead run

Or push the boat out with some more cash and get a j92.
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